Head about to explode (DR + Mark IV content)

[Platypus]

That's my biggest issue as well, I feel like I'm always making minor tweaks instead of playing the **** amplifier... but the Mark IV I've heard is even trickier to dial in...

I feel like everything you said is exactly what I've found over the course of the 2.5 years I've owned this thing.. I find a great tone one day and get excited and the next day I think the same exact settings sound like dog ****.

The sound I'm after is brutal metal.. but metal where you hear each note ring out clearly, something the recto can only get right half of the time. I feel like it sounds better with different guitars but when I plug in my Ace, I haven't touched the front panel in ages, I just plug in and rock out and NEVER think about my gear, just my hands.. that's exactly the kind of tone I want for metal too. I want to plug in and just go yet still get that great boogie tone. I am a tweaker at heart so I hate to say I don't like messing with stuff but there's a fine line I've walked between just messing with **** and not playing.

I love how even bands like Chevelle, who play in C/B even some A tunings get that amazing cut through sound even though the notes are low/distorted and devastating, you can hear that it's still a guitar and you can hear the attack of each note... picture if running the presence control ALL the way up on a recto actually gave you some chug to your notes but kept that razor sharp attack... THAT is the sound I want.

sigh.. in a perfect world I'd get both but I pretty much have to choose between them right now and I don't want to regret my decision.

 

[Platypus]

I'm going to take some mp3 sound samples out of some tunes and post them, maybe one of you Mark owners could get me close to that sound?

 

[siggy14]

what cabinet and speakers are you using?

The bass of a recto is huge, but if you EQ it right you will cut through, but if you scoope out the mid's or use a cabinet that scoops out the mid's you will not.

If you are using the 1980's cabinet as in your signature, that might be your problem. The reasons mesa uses V30's in the cabinets is it makes up for the lack of mid's in the Rec cabinets. V30's have alot of mid's so it does help the amp alot, also keeping the mid's around 1PM will help you as well.

I just have trouble buying your Recto Era is over. I have seen many many bands that use Recto's, and I am not talking metal bands, I am talking rock bands, jazz bands etc.. A prime example of a good rock band that use's recto's is everclear, and they always sound good both live and on CD.

EXACTLY!!! Rock leads with recto seems like a disaster to me (jazz dorian leads with recto distortion are fun though!) Good luck cutting thru the mix. When I saw Dream Theater, I believe Petrucci was using RK's with Lonestars but I didn't really like his tone. Sounded kinda "underground". Ministry's tone (and most high mid-oriented amps) cut thru the mix pretty well and was very "in your face".

All you should need is a footswitch to change the channels and maybe a wah. Concentrate on technique and music theory (like the great old school jazz artists). Those rectos just seem like advanced bass amps to me. All you can play is 5th chords or simple diads (or diminished 5th in case of Korn, for example). Good luck once you start trying anything more complex than dominant 7 or minor 7 (even with all three EQ knobs at noon). Root cause? Not enough treble and too much bass? But they're made for metal only. And thus, not versatile. I don't think I can think of a record that used a recto (other than Soundgarden Badmotorfinger possibly) that I liked a lot. Limp Bizkit is a good example of muddy mush (triple rec). Sepultura's Arise with JCM 800 is one of the best metal albums ever. Great crushing crunc tones. Chaos AD songwriting is very good but sound got mushy and tempo slowed down with rectos.

STP Purple (one of my all-time favs!) used Marshall and VOX I believe and it was very heavy sounding (saw them live twice for same tour) and sounded great with all the jazz chords he used, even with distortion. So don't tell me jazz chords and hard rock don't mix.

But Metallica (MOP and Justice) and Lamb of God retain some more tonal integrity in the chord shapes (although they don't use much jazz chords) and still kicks ***. You can hear all the notes. That's what matters.

I honestly believe the Rectifier era is about to end soon. Use a recto if you don't have a bass player. Something else will come and replace it. Just like Rectos replaced Marshalls for heavy music in the early 1990's. If you like that donkey kong recto sound, play bass with overdrive and harmonizer.

I tried tweaking the hell out of that RK1 and just gave up after several months of owning it. Sometimes I felt I ended up touching the amp more than playing the guitar (it's not as bad with my Mark III, more usable sounds from it).

 

[Platypus]

Hell Lindsay Buckingham uses a Dual Rec.. it's definetly a versatile amp with tons more sounds than just chug/chug metal... just not my speed right now.

 

[Botch]

siggy14: i can't agree enough on the everclear comment!

 

[siggy14]

Yup, and I have also seen foo fighters and they use roadkings, and they sounded awesome, one of the best recto tones i have heard in concert.

As for metal, i know probaly most people dont like them, but kittie had a great tone with the dual 2 channel recto's when i saw them many years ago.

siggy14: i can't agree enough on the everclear comment!

 

[JOEY B.]

My first experience with a MkIV was about 8 months ago. The myth of these amps being hard to dial in is exactly that (a myth). I have had my Mark I for many years and recently got my IIC+. When I read the users manual to the MkIV, it was very informative. But, keep in mind that I wasn't changing styles of amps that much. Just adding more options. The MkIV, in my opinion, is the evolution of the MkIII. Much more independent control over each channel. Try dialing in three great sounding channels on a MkIII, with NO compromising. A 4x12 cab may be the only way to get the sound that you are seeking. Don't give up on the MarkIV without trying it through some sort of closed back cab. FWIW, I struggled with lead tone issues on a 2 channel Triple Rec for several years. Finally, I came to the conclusion that I prefer the Mark type distortion. The Mark and Rectifier are like apples to oranges. They are both good, just different.

 

[stash49]

Honestly, I think rectos are just now comming into there own. I hated them at first because I thought all you could do with them is metal-I don't listen to much metal. I play alot of country music-you would be amazed at how many top country guitarist for band like Montgomery Gentry or kenny chesney use rectos! There is alot more to them. I finnaly broke down and bought one and...I would try diffrent pickups and speakers befor I ditched the recto.

 

[siggy14]

Um, how old are we? Sounds like a 13 year old middle school boy reaction. First, everclear writes danm good music, as well as greenday, godsmack etc.. May not be your style, but it is good music. They are sitting there getting the music out and getting paid well to do what they love while you sit on your butt complaining on a mesa boogie board, who do you think I will take more serious!

I had respect for you until you did those remarks, now you pretty much blew it in one remark.

Now lets take your remark, innovative, yes some of those artists you listed are, but alot are not, examples, even though lamb of god is a good group, there is nothing innovative about them, Kirk is questionalble, great guitarist, but if i remember right James writes most of the music, and well i dont think Kirks solo's are all that great. But i have respect for all these artists, i just do not think they are that innovative.

As I like most of the groups you listed, the only ones I would really consider innovative is Zep, The Doors and of course Black Sabbath.

As to souless, i would find Lamb of god more souless then everyclear anyday, you ever listen to everclear complety, alot of deep songs about the way he grew up, no father, watching his brother die of a drug overdoes, lost love, taking care of his daughter etc..

If you really want to learn to be a great artist, learn to appreciate all music first and you are on the right path. Or just keep your attitude and most people will think you are a bone head.

Honestly, Everclear is a stupid joke. Think about real innovative artists like John Scofield, Trey Spruance (Mr. Bungle), Kirk Hammett, Mike Stern, Lamb of God, Alice in Chains, Pantera, Pat Metheny, Megadeth, Led Zeppelin, the Doors, Frank Zappa, Black Sabbath, etc.

Not that Everclear, Greenday, Godsmack, Blink 89 commercial soulless garbage.

I've used my RK1 with the Genz Benz gflex mostly with all 3 EQ's near noon and various tube settings, etc. Sometimes sounded ok to me (lower volumes), sometimes poor (higher volumes). All the time muddy compared to Mark III or Marshall. And that's with brand new GT preamp and Mesa output tubes as well.

Jerry Cantrell had BADASS tone on facelift. great rhythm and lead tones...

 

[stash49]

I don't think slamming other people's taste in music is right. The world is full of different people, and it is out of respect for them-the audiance, that I go to such great lengths to sound good when I play gigs for them. I want to give the people who come to hear us the best sound I can get, and plying as good as I can. Just because someone is known, or famous or records expensively produced albums doesnt mean much in this commercially exploited world. Personally I concentrate on my own sound for people who listen to me, not on sounding like others for people who would really rather listen to them. Trying to be or sound like someone else will never get you very far.

 

[cant play pool with a rop]

Word^^^^^^^^^!!

 

[Platypus]

let's keep on topic here guys, music is subjective and always will be.. to me, if you have a love for music and connect to it, then it doesn't matter if you listen to Robben Ford or Britney Spears. I could write a novel about this topic but I'm more interested in the Mark IV

 

[stash49]

IMHO, when I played bass professionally for many years all over the country, the very best guitarist I ever seen or heard with a fantastic regional following, who I was fortunate enough to ply with for a quite a while, and who astounded me night after night with prowess on the guitar in soloing, chords, styles and well just plain mastery, ...played a prs standard strait into a MarkIV with a marshall 4x12. For gain he just bumbed his has volume a little. I'd get the same rig but I don't want to sound like his clone. Unbelievable great sound-a simple fantastic guitar rig.

 

[Platypus]

Ok so after some tweaking I got a pretty good tool/hard rock tone out of the rectifier which was cool considering I was just straight into the amp with no effects or attenuator at a reasonable volume.. I said this before...

Today for grins I decided to try out the C7 Hellraiser 7 string with EMG707s into it.. wow. It wasn't the exact tone I am after (a bit too bassy) but it got **** close considering I'm just running clean in. There's no telling what a little volume boost or overdrive might do to make it even more tight. I've never heard the rectifier get that sound before without help and I'm intrigued by how close I got to that really great punch you in the throat sound I was after. I wish I could get a bit more tight in the tracking though...

I'm going to demo the Mark with a 4x12 sometime this week I think if I have time. I might bring in that 7 string to demo it with too.

 

[siggy14]

That is what got me pissed, soon as he started slamming groups I like or even groups i dont like i get pissed.

i am not a big fan of Lamb of god, but i respect them as musicans, but you wouldnt catch me slamming them.

Anyway, I just have trouble believing that so many great musicians use rec's and have great tone, yet people still slam it and say it sucks. Obvious something is not right, may not be your tone, but it is a great tone.

As to it having its day, somewhat yes, but no. Yes it is not as used as it use to be, but now like said country groups are using them as well as many other people. But we are starting to shift back towards a marshall sound, only thing is the artists using them are still using the vintage JCM800's. that should tell marshall something, build some more reliable and better products and become the great amp company it once was.

I don't think slamming other people's taste in music is right. The world is full of different people, and it is out of respect for them-the audiance, that I go to such great lengths to sound good when I play gigs for them. I want to give the people who come to hear us the best sound I can get, and plying as good as I can. Just because someone is known, or famous or records expensively produced albums doesnt mean much in this commercially exploited world. Personally I concentrate on my own sound for people who listen to me, not on sounding like others for people who would really rather listen to them. Trying to be or sound like someone else will never get you very far.

 

[JOEY B.]

I'll try and do my best to be helpful on this forum, and not bash anyone's favorite band/guitarist. I will also say that Mesa has not made a "bad amp". Some of them are just more suited to my tastes.

 

[Platypus]

Anyway... back to the Mark IV...

any more settings or suggestions? going tomorrow to demo it again

 

[Platypus]

Good idea, I forgot about those, I'll print that before I go

 

[boogiemonster]

There was only one in western canada at the time and they wouldn't bring it in until I committed to buying it. me and the IV were treated like freaks of nature by the staff

This is the exact same situation I'm in right now. If I want a Mark IV I have to buy it without trying it. :? Let me guess L&M or MM? :roll:

 

[zackprs]

Well, Here's my opinion:
I own a recto, love the tone, everything about it.
I also love mark's. I really don't think you can compair these two. Both sound amazing, but different.
Well, I found a clip of petrucci playing a RK, I really like his tone in this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8pUqln36po