lockbody
Well-known member
kekam35 said:The only thing I'm getting out of this thread is that I should just leave my amp alone.
You are very wise. :lol:
Has anyone undone the "volume mod" and liked it better?
- Thread starter lockbody
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You are very wise. :lol:
scottcrud
Well-known member
kartoffel said:
I can't believe that Ruby tubes add so much lowend to my amp that I have to turn the bass on the lead channel down to zero! When you can run the other DC10 at 3-4 to get the same lowend. I'm not saying it's the Volume mod either, but I can't believe that the tubes are the culprit here.
Anyone ever try a set of strings and just absolutely hated them ...as in "I can't believe these sound/feel so crappy" hate them? Then there are other strings that didn't make that much of a difference? And still others that make no tonal difference at all? That's tubes. Nothing magical or mystical: just differences that the user prefers or not. Some diffs are significant; some indiscernable.
While I am not saying tubes account for the entire difference you are experiencing, it can account for much, if not most. Then there are those subtle differences that inherently occur between two "identical" pieces of equipment. Then account for the age of these amps, degredation of components such as caps, etc, and the very possibility that one of them is marginal or broken in some way. The variables to consider here abound.
As I said, it is my opinion (not a tech by any stretch, but a hack's understanding of electronics and backyard tinkering for a couple of decades ...and hadn't fried myself yet )that one resistor that affects the taper of one output volume knob (and not even a gain stage control at that) is not the culprit here. Someone smarter than me please demonstrate I am wrong, but till that happens, I am believeing the likliest of reasons which probably acount for the significant differences.
Don't get me wrong: I am in no way being contentious nor doubting that the differences between the amps are clear and perceptible. I simply point to what I think is or is not the more likely explanation.
Edward
While I am not saying tubes account for the entire difference you are experiencing, it can account for much, if not most. Then there are those subtle differences that inherently occur between two "identical" pieces of equipment. Then account for the age of these amps, degredation of components such as caps, etc, and the very possibility that one of them is marginal or broken in some way. The variables to consider here abound.
As I said, it is my opinion (not a tech by any stretch, but a hack's understanding of electronics and backyard tinkering for a couple of decades ...and hadn't fried myself yet
)that one resistor that affects the taper of one output volume knob (and not even a gain stage control at that) is not the culprit here. Someone smarter than me please demonstrate I am wrong, but till that happens, I am believeing the likliest of reasons which probably acount for the significant differences.Don't get me wrong: I am in no way being contentious nor doubting that the differences between the amps are clear and perceptible. I simply point to what I think is or is not the more likely explanation.
Edward
I should have brought a fire extinguisher!
If you had 2 DC-10's, or 2 Rectifiers (especially the Rectos), or 2 of any other exact same model of amp in the same room right next to each other, they would sound a little different. In the case of Rectifiers, they might sound drastically different!
I really have done the volume mod on a lot of Calibers and Dual Calibers. I don't really find a tonal difference. FWIW: I've used the same cables and cabs and guitars for almost all of them.
I do notice a difference in overall tightness though.
I have never noticed the differences in the channels like it has been stated here. On every one that I've done, the clean channel still has to be turned up more than the lead channel.
That is not to say that these are not real issues on real amps. That is my whole point......every amp is different!
Especially older amps. My DC-10 must be at least 15 years old. It still kicks major ***!
It does, however, have exactly the tubes I wanted, and new filter caps.
Believe it or not, the filter caps have way more effect on your amp's tone than the Volume Mod does.
In order for this to be fair in any way, all of the amps in question would have to have the same tubes and a cap job.
My DC-10 will never go back to the original state with the resistor across the pot. It was simply way too loud way too early! Even in a band situation.
If you had 2 DC-10's, or 2 Rectifiers (especially the Rectos), or 2 of any other exact same model of amp in the same room right next to each other, they would sound a little different. In the case of Rectifiers, they might sound drastically different!
I really have done the volume mod on a lot of Calibers and Dual Calibers. I don't really find a tonal difference. FWIW: I've used the same cables and cabs and guitars for almost all of them.
I do notice a difference in overall tightness though.
I have never noticed the differences in the channels like it has been stated here. On every one that I've done, the clean channel still has to be turned up more than the lead channel.
That is not to say that these are not real issues on real amps. That is my whole point......every amp is different!
Especially older amps. My DC-10 must be at least 15 years old. It still kicks major ***!
It does, however, have exactly the tubes I wanted, and new filter caps.
Believe it or not, the filter caps have way more effect on your amp's tone than the Volume Mod does.
In order for this to be fair in any way, all of the amps in question would have to have the same tubes and a cap job.
My DC-10 will never go back to the original state with the resistor across the pot. It was simply way too loud way too early! Even in a band situation.
scottcrud
Well-known member
I absolutely agree about same model amps sounding different, I've owned 3 MKIII's and all were a little different, I've owned 3 Rectos and they all were a little different, but the power tubes in my DC10 aren't the reason why it has twice the bass as the other DC10. Never said the Volume mod was the reason either.
All this being said...
There is another factor that we are completely forgetting here. At least from the different amps perspective, not from the same amp with or without the mod.
The fact that each of us are using the strings that we like on the guitars we like, with the pickups, cables, pedals, etc. that we like as individuals. What works for me and sounds great to my ears, maybe even to yours, may sound like **** for you.
I think that the real test is, what works for us as individuals. This is probably the only reason that I don't just remove the resistor from each amp that passes my way so that I ca reuse them somewhere else. I simply un-solder 1 leg and leave it pulled up so that if the owner decides that my tone is not his tone, it is easy to fix. I even remove the solder from the vacant hole, just incase.
As for the mod in a single given amp, with the same speakers, cables, guitars, person playing, etc.
Here is my take.....
Have you ever noticed that a Strat may not sound great in some amps, but sounds fantastic in others?
There may be just enough tonal difference with the mod. In the sense that the amp may or may not be passing certain frequencies later on the pot taper than it would without the mod. This alone may be the cause of this whole debate.
If you are using a Strat, for instance, and it sounds too harsh without the mod, but great with the mod, it may simply be a case of more highs being held back with the resistor removed for that particular pot at that particular position in it's taper.
Much in the same way that each tube amp seems to 'Blossom' or 'Sing' when turned up a little. Again, 2 amps, same room, blah blah blah.....You won't get the same tones.
And, I guess, finally.....Each amp ages differently. Even if each amp in question had brand new caps, same tubes, same cables, same speakers & cabs, same guy playing them. They might just sound different enough to notice. Just because they have new caps and the same stuff doesn't mean that the LDR's, resistors, and other parts (including possibly the wire itself) all aged in the same exact way. Most Mesa amps are in no way as dramatically different as say a vintage Fender or Marshall. The parts used in most Mesa amps are far superior in quality (maybe not necessarily tone) than what is used in other brands. This is especially true of some Marshall amps (DSL's & TSL's, I'm watching you!) :lol: .
Plus, maybe finally final! Who knows what has been done to each amp along the way! You wouldn't believe the stuff I find in amps. Some mods or changes were done by the manufacturers in an effort to remedy issues, or perhaps just tonal changes or design changes along the way. Other changes to the amps are from guys like me who can't sit still long enough to find an amp that he likes. Others are from guys who just simply think they know what they are doing.
I can't tell you how many times I've looked in or owned an amp that I could have sworn was all original, only to find some variance or discrepancy later on that just doesn't make sense.
I'm pretty much done rambling, hope this makes a little sense. Now it's time for beer!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
There is another factor that we are completely forgetting here. At least from the different amps perspective, not from the same amp with or without the mod.
The fact that each of us are using the strings that we like on the guitars we like, with the pickups, cables, pedals, etc. that we like as individuals. What works for me and sounds great to my ears, maybe even to yours, may sound like **** for you.
I think that the real test is, what works for us as individuals. This is probably the only reason that I don't just remove the resistor from each amp that passes my way so that I ca reuse them somewhere else. I simply un-solder 1 leg and leave it pulled up so that if the owner decides that my tone is not his tone, it is easy to fix. I even remove the solder from the vacant hole, just incase.
As for the mod in a single given amp, with the same speakers, cables, guitars, person playing, etc.
Here is my take.....
Have you ever noticed that a Strat may not sound great in some amps, but sounds fantastic in others?
There may be just enough tonal difference with the mod. In the sense that the amp may or may not be passing certain frequencies later on the pot taper than it would without the mod. This alone may be the cause of this whole debate.
If you are using a Strat, for instance, and it sounds too harsh without the mod, but great with the mod, it may simply be a case of more highs being held back with the resistor removed for that particular pot at that particular position in it's taper.
Much in the same way that each tube amp seems to 'Blossom' or 'Sing' when turned up a little. Again, 2 amps, same room, blah blah blah.....You won't get the same tones.
And, I guess, finally.....Each amp ages differently. Even if each amp in question had brand new caps, same tubes, same cables, same speakers & cabs, same guy playing them. They might just sound different enough to notice. Just because they have new caps and the same stuff doesn't mean that the LDR's, resistors, and other parts (including possibly the wire itself) all aged in the same exact way. Most Mesa amps are in no way as dramatically different as say a vintage Fender or Marshall. The parts used in most Mesa amps are far superior in quality (maybe not necessarily tone) than what is used in other brands. This is especially true of some Marshall amps (DSL's & TSL's, I'm watching you!) :lol: .
Plus, maybe finally final! Who knows what has been done to each amp along the way! You wouldn't believe the stuff I find in amps. Some mods or changes were done by the manufacturers in an effort to remedy issues, or perhaps just tonal changes or design changes along the way. Other changes to the amps are from guys like me who can't sit still long enough to find an amp that he likes. Others are from guys who just simply think they know what they are doing.
I can't tell you how many times I've looked in or owned an amp that I could have sworn was all original, only to find some variance or discrepancy later on that just doesn't make sense.
I'm pretty much done rambling, hope this makes a little sense. Now it's time for beer!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
It would be really interesting if we could get about 10 amps with the mod and 10 without the mod in the same room for a day.
lockbody
Well-known member
Monsta-Tone said:I should have brought a fire extinguisher!
I do notice a difference in overall tightness though.
This is what I, and others, keep saying. :lol:
:lol: :lol: My amp is keeping the mod though! :lol: :lol:
The difference is not enough to be unable to attain by simply placing the EQ and Gain knobs in a slightly different position.
The difference is not enough to be unable to attain by simply placing the EQ and Gain knobs in a slightly different position.
I +1 the mod too although the volume taper is still not nice it's pretty loud pretty fast, but right now I'm liking the sound with the channel at 1.2-1.5 and the master at 4-5 I get to crank it without it pissing off people in the next state over.
Hey monsta any thoughts on a DC10 reverb transformer I think it's blown because lack of the previous owner to hook it up because he didn't like it. so with no load on it it's probably blown. Think I could buy one from you if you can get them or know where to get them?
Hey monsta any thoughts on a DC10 reverb transformer I think it's blown because lack of the previous owner to hook it up because he didn't like it. so with no load on it it's probably blown. Think I could buy one from you if you can get them or know where to get them?
They are pretty universal:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts/foxweb.dll/moreinfo@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=P-T1750A
http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts/foxweb.dll/moreinfo@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=P-TF22921
Both are good, the Hammond may be a bit better quality though.
Make sure you check your solder connections at the jacks, and test the tank & cables in another Mesa or Fender amp (with tube reverb) before going to the trouble of replacing the transformer. It's not that difficult, but you'll be wanting that hour of your life back if it is something else.
http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts/foxweb.dll/moreinfo@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=P-T1750A
http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts/foxweb.dll/moreinfo@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=P-TF22921
Both are good, the Hammond may be a bit better quality though.
Make sure you check your solder connections at the jacks, and test the tank & cables in another Mesa or Fender amp (with tube reverb) before going to the trouble of replacing the transformer. It's not that difficult, but you'll be wanting that hour of your life back if it is something else.
I don't have another amp to test it in unfortunately. The only reason I think it's bad is because according to the person I bought it from he had the wires unhooked at all times. I know the tubes good its a ax7 I might get a at7 if I can get it to work. either way the transformers cheap enough ill probably just get. thanks though
