i am pretty frustrated with the channel 2 on my mark 4.all i want is an ac dc solid type of distortion sound.what i get is mushy with no sustain that fizzles out quickly.could someone who is satisfied with there settings help me out and give me some suggestions.thanks.
frustrated with channel 2
- Thread starter billyg121
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Man you don't know how much I feel your pain. My solution has been to pull the presence pot out on R2 and turn it all the way up. then I run the Bass on r2 just below 2, no higher then 2. Then I run the gain, for humbuckers, around 3 to 4 tops. This gets me close to ACDC plexi type sound, which is a lot cleaner then people realize. I think a lot of the tone issues with R2 come from to much bass but also not enough master volume. What I mean is running the amps volume higher to let the tone out. When you push the amp the power tubes start to add that magic tube mojo. The problem with that is the amp is an animal and will blow your head off at home and at gigs. My solution for this is two yellow jackets in the outer tube sockets. Run the amp on class A and run the master volume on 6 to 8 and channel volumes no lower then two, use your guitars volume to take it from there. This is me and I'm an ACDC classic rock guy. Most of the guys here have tried to help me out but a lot of the guys are heavy metal and don't really know where I'm coming from. This is not a slight on you heavy metal guys, it's just different tone agenda. I hope this helps you find your tone. I have only had the MKIV for a couple of months and gigs. The more I learn it, the more I love it. The MKIV can do a lot of things very well. Good luck I still have a headache from struggling with R2. A lot of guys have chimed in about R2 being great and whats my problem etc. I thank you for your thoughts.
michelj
Well-known member
jamme61 said:
Hello folks,
I'm also a classic rock guy and my R2 settings are close to jamme61. I keep the bass down around two, treble at 6, mid at 3, gain at 6.5 (pulled fat), presence 4 (not pulled), master volume 2, output level 6, class a, triode, harmonics and a v-shape eq. This gives an R2 that is very responsive to pick attack, i.e. fairly clean when played softly and grits up nicely when played hard.
Michel
6L6C
Well-known member
I was never that crazy about r2 either what I ended up doing was go with EL34’s on the outer sockets, the effects
R1 was not as bright (but in a really good way) but with a little treble and pull the bright switch, nice and sparkly again. R3 did not change all that much found myself backing off on the gain. R2 sounds like a completely animal (kind of like a hotrod Marshall JCM 800). Running class A the amp starts to sound a little Marshall like (must be those EL34’s
) Run it in simul-class for the most part sounds the same except with more volume and a much tighter sound.
I have been reading about yellow jackets and I plan on picking up a pair.
jamme61 loves his yellow jackets! And he would not be alone. I love the EL84 sound also, had a Subway Rocket and I still have a Peavey Classic 30.
R1 was not as bright (but in a really good way) but with a little treble and pull the bright switch, nice and sparkly again. R3 did not change all that much found myself backing off on the gain. R2 sounds like a completely animal (kind of like a hotrod Marshall JCM 800). Running class A the amp starts to sound a little Marshall like (must be those EL34’s
) Run it in simul-class for the most part sounds the same except with more volume and a much tighter sound.I have been reading about yellow jackets and I plan on picking up a pair.
jamme61 loves his yellow jackets! And he would not be alone. I love the EL84 sound also, had a Subway Rocket and I still have a Peavey Classic 30.
6L6C
Well-known member
Hey jamme61
How do your Yellow Jackets sound when you run simul-class?
How do your Yellow Jackets sound when you run simul-class?
I would urge you not to waste $300 on a Hotplate or any other attenuator. I have been there done that. I really like the yellow jackets in simulclasss too. When you switch from class A to simulcass you get a Volume boost and also a lot more bass. It's great to be able to have these options for at home and gigs. I also have switched the 6l6's in the middle to two EL34's. You lose a little bass and get a little more dirt with the El34's. So I have two YJ's (el84's and two EL34's) Basically I'm trying to get my old fender on R1 and my rhythm Plexi grind on R2 and I love R3 lead tone just the way it is. So that leaves me always screwing around with R2. I think I'm there with R2 with the YJ's. With just 2 YJ's in class A I can turn the amp up to about 8 on the master and get a wicked power tube grind, Very close to my Plexi, and use my guitar volume to clean it up and play with dynamics. I just ordered another pair of YJ's to see how the amp will sound with 4 el84's, but I'm very happy with just two YJ's and two el34's in simulclass, for gigs. At home and small gigs, I love the two YJ's in class A. This is all very subjective stuff but I always have had a problem with R2 and the volume of the amp, I think I have finally found the solution with the YJ's. The funny thing is I tried YJ's years ago with my marshall plexi and I hated them in the plexi, the YJ's thinned out the plexi and took away all the punch. In the MKIV it's such a beast and has so much bass in it, that the YJ's IMHO are just perfect for it. The only other way to go would be to mess with some of the caps in the amp and change their values. I think this would work, but then I could totally screw up the amp(not going there). I did add a 100pf bright cap on the gain pot of the R2. It added just a little more sparkle to R2, just like the pull out on R1.
billyg121 said:
R2 is basically an extension of R1 (same base voicing) with some dirt added in.
It makes a great dirty blues type tone and it took me awhile (years) to appreciate R2 for what it was and not what I had initially assumed it would be (sharper sounding).
Your only recourse really is to throw a pedal in front of R2, alot of players do that.
With regards to dmt's suggestion to use an attenuator:
I must side with jamme61. Yeah, screw the attenuators....
Turn that amp up like it is supposed to be played to yield the tone out of it.
Attenuation reduces the amount of dbs that you are producing but doesn't allow the speakers' cones to move the air that you need to move to produce great tone. If you find yourself needing an attenuator it means you have too much amp or not enough balls to use it. <-- ok so maybe that was a little much but you get the idea.
Seriously, use a single speaker that is very efficient and that is rated for around 100 watts (C90?)if you want full power or similar in class A at 50 watts or so (65?) in order to be able to also drive your speaker instead of using a 2x12 or a 4x12. You want your speaker on the edge of breakup. This will give you the best rock tone once you have your settings dialed for your particular guitar and playing style.
A change to YJs would be a great way to tame the beasts loudness though even in class A the amp will still be pretty loud. Though with this option you might be able to use a single greenback and get away with it.
Some people have gone the route of the little 5 watt amps that use a 12ax7 for a power tube. They sound pretty good too. Just a thought if you need tube tone but not the loudness of a full on large venue amp. There has been a current gigging trend to use lower wattage amps for gigging anyway in that most larger venues have PAs anyway so you just mic up. Some of the bigger name artists have even been known to go this route.
There is nothing wrong with using something that might not be the current en vogue or chic amp out there. It really depends upon your ability to coax the tone out of whatever you play. At this point, attenuating is not an answer. It is more like a bandaid gaping flesh wound.
If you haven't been able to open up your amp then you really don't know what it can do. Fortunately, these Mesa amps have enough preamp gain that you can get some cool tones out of them without having to fully crank them. I still like the sound of an amp being pushed and speakers that are on the edge of losing control.
I must side with jamme61. Yeah, screw the attenuators....
Turn that amp up like it is supposed to be played to yield the tone out of it.
Attenuation reduces the amount of dbs that you are producing but doesn't allow the speakers' cones to move the air that you need to move to produce great tone. If you find yourself needing an attenuator it means you have too much amp or not enough balls to use it. <-- ok so maybe that was a little much but you get the idea.
Seriously, use a single speaker that is very efficient and that is rated for around 100 watts (C90?)if you want full power or similar in class A at 50 watts or so (65?) in order to be able to also drive your speaker instead of using a 2x12 or a 4x12. You want your speaker on the edge of breakup. This will give you the best rock tone once you have your settings dialed for your particular guitar and playing style.
A change to YJs would be a great way to tame the beasts loudness though even in class A the amp will still be pretty loud. Though with this option you might be able to use a single greenback and get away with it.
Some people have gone the route of the little 5 watt amps that use a 12ax7 for a power tube. They sound pretty good too. Just a thought if you need tube tone but not the loudness of a full on large venue amp. There has been a current gigging trend to use lower wattage amps for gigging anyway in that most larger venues have PAs anyway so you just mic up. Some of the bigger name artists have even been known to go this route.
There is nothing wrong with using something that might not be the current en vogue or chic amp out there. It really depends upon your ability to coax the tone out of whatever you play. At this point, attenuating is not an answer. It is more like a bandaid gaping flesh wound.
If you haven't been able to open up your amp then you really don't know what it can do. Fortunately, these Mesa amps have enough preamp gain that you can get some cool tones out of them without having to fully crank them. I still like the sound of an amp being pushed and speakers that are on the edge of losing control.
I know this might not be a popular suggestion, but I just got a BBE sonic stomp pedal, and it really helps the amp sound better. You can't go to high with the settings on the BBE, but used right, it really helps the tone IMHO. It might be worth the $100 to try it and if you don't like it, bring it back. The BBE has true bypass, so you can compare the sound.
Shep
Well-known member
push presence 6
treble 8
push gain 10
bass 2.5
mid 6
classic V eq but with the higher end rolled down alittle compared to the bass..
this is my normal heavy setting i just pull the gain out normally..more ball's..
this is with mesa 4x12 trad cab..
i love this channel..it's So tight and clear..unbeatable....
treble 8
push gain 10
bass 2.5
mid 6
classic V eq but with the higher end rolled down alittle compared to the bass..
this is my normal heavy setting i just pull the gain out normally..more ball's..
this is with mesa 4x12 trad cab..
i love this channel..it's So tight and clear..unbeatable....
I think there's so much that can go wrong dialing in the amp, that it will take years to know that I really am getting 100% out of it. I like my tone a lot right now, but I also liked it the first hour I had the amp, now I know better, about, what the amp can really do. still I think I'll continue to learn and refine and get better tone for a long time. I feel sorry for all of us newbies. R2 will always be where I spend most of my time.
mr_fender
Well-known member
I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but here's how I approach tweaking a Boogie:
1st: I decide what volume level I'm shooting for (practice level, gig level, etc.) Tube amps behave very differently at different volumes and will take different settings to achive a similar sound at a different volume level. For example, If you are crafting a gig level sound, do the tweaking at gig level.
2nd: Set the gain control(s). The gain control on tube amps is most powerful control in shaping the tone. Higher gain settings, aside from being more dirty, will be darker and more compressed sounding. Low gain settings, aside from being less dirty, will be brighter and snappier.
3rd: Set the treble control. The treble control in most tube amps is first in the chain of the tone network and is therefore the most powerful next to the gain control. It often sets how sensitive the remaining controls will be. High treble settings will reduce the effectiveness of the mid and bass controls and vice versa.
4th: Set the mid and bass controls to fill out the rest of the sound as desired. Again, these controls largely depend on how the treble is set. If the treble is set high, you'll have to run these two more extreme to acheive the same effect as if the treble was set lower.
5th: Set the presence control. Along with adjusting the high frequency sparkle or cut of the sound, it will also effect the attack as well. High settings will make it sound more snappy and responsive. Low settings will make it sound more compressed and even.
Granted these controls all overlap and interact in a certain way that is unique to each circuit. That part just takes time and experimentation to learn.
One thing to keep in mind is if the tone string is pre-gain or post-gain. Pre-gain tone controls will effect the harmonic content of the sound more. Also, high eq settings with pre-gain controls will add more distortion. Post-gain tone controls are more powerful in shaping the overal sound that you get, rather than the character of the clip or harmonics. Post-gain eq to my ears sounds more "processed" when set more extreme. Pre-gain eq sounds more raw.
Tone controls are meant to shape the core sound that the amp creates. No eq on earth will make a Fender Twin sound like a Marshall Plexi on full blast.
I usually start with all the tone controls set half way. That usually gives a good balanced tone to start from. Also, don't forget about the guitar. It can have a HUGE effect on the end result. While eq'ing and pickup selection will help some, a Les Paul will always sound different from a strat or tele.
Most importantly: Read the manual. Boogies have great manuals that breakdown the controls and give tips on how to best tweak them.
Hope this helps.
1st: I decide what volume level I'm shooting for (practice level, gig level, etc.) Tube amps behave very differently at different volumes and will take different settings to achive a similar sound at a different volume level. For example, If you are crafting a gig level sound, do the tweaking at gig level.
2nd: Set the gain control(s). The gain control on tube amps is most powerful control in shaping the tone. Higher gain settings, aside from being more dirty, will be darker and more compressed sounding. Low gain settings, aside from being less dirty, will be brighter and snappier.
3rd: Set the treble control. The treble control in most tube amps is first in the chain of the tone network and is therefore the most powerful next to the gain control. It often sets how sensitive the remaining controls will be. High treble settings will reduce the effectiveness of the mid and bass controls and vice versa.
4th: Set the mid and bass controls to fill out the rest of the sound as desired. Again, these controls largely depend on how the treble is set. If the treble is set high, you'll have to run these two more extreme to acheive the same effect as if the treble was set lower.
5th: Set the presence control. Along with adjusting the high frequency sparkle or cut of the sound, it will also effect the attack as well. High settings will make it sound more snappy and responsive. Low settings will make it sound more compressed and even.
Granted these controls all overlap and interact in a certain way that is unique to each circuit. That part just takes time and experimentation to learn.
One thing to keep in mind is if the tone string is pre-gain or post-gain. Pre-gain tone controls will effect the harmonic content of the sound more. Also, high eq settings with pre-gain controls will add more distortion. Post-gain tone controls are more powerful in shaping the overal sound that you get, rather than the character of the clip or harmonics. Post-gain eq to my ears sounds more "processed" when set more extreme. Pre-gain eq sounds more raw.
Tone controls are meant to shape the core sound that the amp creates. No eq on earth will make a Fender Twin sound like a Marshall Plexi on full blast.
I usually start with all the tone controls set half way. That usually gives a good balanced tone to start from. Also, don't forget about the guitar. It can have a HUGE effect on the end result. While eq'ing and pickup selection will help some, a Les Paul will always sound different from a strat or tele.
Most importantly: Read the manual. Boogies have great manuals that breakdown the controls and give tips on how to best tweak them.
Hope this helps.
I really like this channel now, mine sound a little bit like Blackmore on Machine Head great blues rock tone. Remember that a lot of your tone come from your fingers. Like me stay a while on this channel and work it maybe you would appreciate it if that blues rock kind of tone is your thing.
Jam, you said that you use EL34s in middle two sockets, and EL84's in outer?
Working ok?Just curious why Mesa makes it seem the EL34s NEED to go in the outer two sockets only, ESPECIALLY given that the Mark-IVs are supposedly biased COLD.
Should it matter especially if you don't really get to turn the overall volume past 2 1/2?? (I cannot turn this beast beyond that without folks complaining)
I am considering getting 4 6v6s to try and would REALLY like to try 4 EL-84s but I believe the Yellowjackets for the inner tubes are different than the outer tubes..anyone out there confirm this?
Working ok?Just curious why Mesa makes it seem the EL34s NEED to go in the outer two sockets only, ESPECIALLY given that the Mark-IVs are supposedly biased COLD.
Should it matter especially if you don't really get to turn the overall volume past 2 1/2?? (I cannot turn this beast beyond that without folks complaining)
I am considering getting 4 6v6s to try and would REALLY like to try 4 EL-84s but I believe the Yellowjackets for the inner tubes are different than the outer tubes..anyone out there confirm this?
I like the 4 6v6's but you can't run them on full power. I like the amps tone at full power. The el34's are fine in the middle, like you say the amp is biased cold already and if your 6l6's are fine your el34's will be fine. I have a bias rite so I always check the bias to make sure. I also have installed a bias pot on the MKIV. You can run the same yellow jacket adapters in all four tube sockets. You don't need different YJ's. After all the time and money I have spent, I have settled on 4 yellow jackets. At home I run two in class A and for gigs I run all 4 at full power. This has been the best tone I have ever got out of the MKIV. The reason is the Volume doesn't crush me any more. With just two YJ's I can run the amps master as high as 5 to 7 and really get some power tube tone coming through. I'm a newbie and still learning but when I first got the amp I couldn't get the volume low enough with out killing the tone. With the YJ's you really get to work the amp. I also think the el84's are a little sweeter sounding. all subjective stuff but the YJ's work great, run two or four of them, no problem.
I have no idea how to do clips. If you go with Yellow jackets you don't need to worry about the bias. After doing the bias pot mod, I wouldn't do it again. I don't think you need it, unless you have a lot of NOS tubes that you want to run. Otherwise You can run mesa tubes or call Bob at eurotubes (JJ tubes) and you don't have to worry about the bias. If interested in the YJ's you might be able to p/u a pair used for $50 to $60 and use the amp in class A. you can also use the amp with two YJ's and two 6L6's in simulclass.
