For those of you who have switched to non-Mesa tubes...

[Surfcaster]

Lots of you who have switched to non-Mesa tubes have posted that doing so improved the tone of your amps.

My question is this...how much difference are we talking here? Are we talking a blatantly obvious difference that slaps you in the face as soon as you strike the first chord. And if so, are you still noticing and enjoying the difference months/years down the road, or was it really all in your head and after a while you realized it's really not that much different at all (I've heard people on other forums report this kind of thing)

Or is the difference very subtle...the kind of thing you can only really tell if you do an A/B comparison.

The reason I ask is if the difference is pretty obvious and noticeable, I may consider buying a full replacement set for my F50 through Eurotubes, but if the difference is only very subtle, I'll wait another 3 years until my warranty period is over before I play around with those kinds of changes.

The other reason I ask is because I owned an Ampeg Reverberocket a few years ago and I switched the power tubes between Svetlanas and Electro Harmonix a couple times and I switched pre-amp tubes between Sovtek and Electro Harmonix once, and to be honest, I did not notice any difference in doing so...if it was different, the only way to tell would be to do an A/B comparison, which I didn't do.

Thanks!

 

[jbird]

In dealing with Eurotubes or anyother reputable tube dealer, as long as you inform them of the amp and model, I don´t think you´ll run into any warranty issues. I also think it will be an A/B comparison situation, though some may disagree. Personally, I´ve remained with Mesa´s tubes for convenience, if I´m going for a different tone, I´ll change guitars or try a new brand of strings.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

The answer to this question depends on many variables.

How do you use your amp: do you push the power tubes into clipping, or do you rely primarily on preamp distortion? I suspect that most members here are in the latter group, where preamp tube subs will make the most difference, and power tube swaps may be perceived as subtle.

Do you play mostly (or entirely) with searing high-gain distortion? The effects of preamp tube changes will be more apparent to players who use the full range of dynamics, from clean to slight breakup to full-tilt singing lead.

Another question to ask yourself is if you think JJ tubes will bring you a bold enough change (Eurotubes doesn't sell anything but JJ as far as I know) for your needs. Personally, I'd recommend that if you chose to re-tube, you should consider options outside the JJ box. There are lots more choices.

For me, the evolution away from Mesa's tubes was a revelation, but one that I can only quantify by analogy. The magnitude was similar to the degree of improvement I experience in changing from Mesa's Black Shadow C90 speakers to Weber AlNiCo speakers (yes, blatantly obvious, "slaps you in the face," send shivers through your soul). But it was not the same degree of difference in going from a single-coil Strat to a p-90 semi-hollow (or any humbucker-equiped guitar).

The differences?
- more open, airy, and dynamically responsive (less compressed) feel
- better ability to clean up
- highly articulate detail throughout the frequency ranges
- extended frequency response: higher and sweeter highs, lower and tighter lows
- longer service life from NOS tubes
- custom tones to suit one's taste, and the ability to change this at will (for, say, a recording with a different guitar)

You have to do your homework, though, and deeply question of what you're trying to accomplish with tube changes (or any change, for that matter). You might be a player who can plug into any old amp and pop the cork off your soul. If this is the case, more power to you: don't bother with tube changes. I wish I was that kind of player, but I do find my playing is influenced by how I feel about my gear.

The reward, for me, has been that each time I plug in my guitar, it is a delight to play. I find that I'm inspired to play more creatively, and that the way I use my guitar (pickup selection, picking style and dynamics, etc.) makes more of a difference, so new sonic vistas have opened to me.

Hope this helps you answer your own question.

- T

 

[macaddict]

The reason I stopped using boogie tubes is, I went to replace my tubes, and every set of boogie tubes I purchased had something wrong with them. They were unbelievably noisy. I don't mean buzz or anything, I mean The vibration from my cab was causing a ringing in the power tubes. Not sure if a tube can be microphonic, but that is the only way I can describe it. IMO boogie tubes are ****! I'll stick with my sovteks and svetlanas!

 

[nocluejimbo]

The reason I stopped using boogie tubes is, I went to replace my tubes, and every set of boogie tubes I purchased had something wrong with them. They were unbelievably noisy. I don't mean buzz or anything, I mean The vibration from my cab was causing a ringing in the power tubes. Not sure if a tube can be microphonic, but that is the only way I can describe it. IMO boogie tubes are sh!t! I'll stick with my sovteks and svetlanas!

Funny, since a good portion Boogie tubes are Sovteks or Svetlanas.

http://www.srl.utu.fi/~tke/MesaBoogie/Tube/mesa-tubes.html

 

[macaddict]

The reason I stopped using boogie tubes is, I went to replace my tubes, and every set of boogie tubes I purchased had something wrong with them. They were unbelievably noisy. I don't mean buzz or anything, I mean The vibration from my cab was causing a ringing in the power tubes. Not sure if a tube can be microphonic, but that is the only way I can describe it. IMO boogie tubes are sh!t! I'll stick with my sovteks and svetlanas!

Funny, since a good portion Boogie tubes are Sovteks or Svetlanas.

http://www.srl.utu.fi/~tke/MesaBoogie/Tube/mesa-tubes.html

Well all 3 pairs I got direct from boogie where horrible!! I went to my buddies shop and picked up a matched set of sovteks and all my problems where gone! I just found it hard to believe that 3 sets of tubes where bad! but in each set there was 1 to 2 bad tubes.

 

[no soul]

its not so much a question of switching to non-mesa tubes, just switching to tube types they dont offer. If you are talking about switching from one family of tubes to another, then yes it can make a pretty big difference (ie 6l6 to el34)



In the larger scale of things, assuming the tubes you were using before werent broken it really is subtle. Over all, your amp will still be a Mesa boogie. You might perceive it as a huge difference, because you are going to be already really familiar with your own amp and its nuances, but to somebody who isnt... then it can be a different story.

 

[no soul]

The reason I stopped using boogie tubes is, I went to replace my tubes, and every set of boogie tubes I purchased had something wrong with them. They were unbelievably noisy. I don't mean buzz or anything, I mean The vibration from my cab was causing a ringing in the power tubes. Not sure if a tube can be microphonic, but that is the only way I can describe it. IMO boogie tubes are sh!t! I'll stick with my sovteks and svetlanas!

Funny, since a good portion Boogie tubes are Sovteks or Svetlanas.

http://www.srl.utu.fi/~tke/MesaBoogie/Tube/mesa-tubes.html

yeah, I was about to mention that...

I dont think that guy understands what tubes are...

 

[Brewski]

I put a matched set of Eurotubes in my F-50 and found the difference in sound very apparent. The old tubes were both ringing and noisy. The amp was used when I bought it, and it had another brand of tubes in it. I have no regrets in changing out the tubes to JJ's.

If you are just experimenting with the sound, then you have to justify the cost of a set or sets of tubes to try them. If you really need tubes, I wouldn't hesitate. I'd buy them again, when needed. (As stated above, make sure to let whoever you buy from know what kind of sound you are looking for, as far as, whether you want high gain, or more of a vintage sound.

 

[macaddict]

The reason I stopped using boogie tubes is, I went to replace my tubes, and every set of boogie tubes I purchased had something wrong with them. They were unbelievably noisy. I don't mean buzz or anything, I mean The vibration from my cab was causing a ringing in the power tubes. Not sure if a tube can be microphonic, but that is the only way I can describe it. IMO boogie tubes are sh!t! I'll stick with my sovteks and svetlanas!

Funny, since a good portion Boogie tubes are Sovteks or Svetlanas.

http://www.srl.utu.fi/~tke/MesaBoogie/Tube/mesa-tubes.html

yeah, I was about to mention that...

I dont think that guy understands what tubes are...

I absolutley understand what tubes are! I have had nothing but bad experiences with any tube that has the boogie name on it. I don't care who is making them!
The second I got a set of tubes that didn't carry the boogie name my problems disapeared. I don't know if it boils down to bad handling on boogies end, or poor shipping, but bad tubes are bad tubes no matter who is making them. exactly how does this boil down to a lack of tube knowledge on my part?¿

 

[Guitarist for hire]

why did you order mesa tubes, they have them in guitar center...where you could take them back if they didn't work.

 

[macaddict]

why did you order mesa tubes, they have them in guitar center...where you could take them back if they didn't work.

Because this was back before GC was carrying mesa products.

 

[Surfcaster]

Thanks for the input...still not sure what I'll do. I don't NEED tubes yet, but I've got 2 years on the current power tubes...first year was practially daily for a couple hours a day...now it's once or twice a week for anywhere from 20 minutes to a couple hours. Who knows how much life they've got left in them. I guess when it comes time to replace them, I'll worry about it then. And I'm certainly not limiting myself to Eurotubes, but I do know lots of people who like JJs, and have had good experiences with Eurotubes...also, he's the only one I'm aware of that sells full replacement sets as a package...but again, that's not a big deal either. Most of my tube purchases for previous amps were through The Tube Store and I had a good experience with them.

 

[pau_leader]

I put a matched set of Eurotubes in my F-50 and found the difference in sound very apparent. The old tubes were both ringing and noisy. The amp was used when I bought it, and it had another brand of tubes in it. I have no regrets in changing out the tubes to JJ's.

If you are just experimenting with the sound, then you have to justify the cost of a set or sets of tubes to try them. If you really need tubes, I wouldn't hesitate. I'd buy them again, when needed. (As stated above, make sure to let whoever you buy from know what kind of sound you are looking for, as far as, whether you want high gain, or more of a vintage sound.

I had Mesatubes and it was cloud of smoke. As soon as I swapped them with JJtubes, I could hear the differance. My sound is much more clear. Yes you can say changeing your stock tube will make a differance!

 

[Dreads]

I swapped out the power tubes (went from 6L6 to EL34 Teslas from my Late 80's JCM800 Marshall.. prob bought them around 1990) and I also swapped out all of the 12ax7's. Major major difference in the amp (LoneStar.) The tubes that were in the amp when I bought it would start making a scary farting noise if I turned the gain way up or squealing. I refused to believe the BS in the Manual about "using common sense and don't turn the gain all the way up" as this is not my first amp! I switched tubes and the noises (plural) all disapeered! Not only that but the amp has a smoother overdrive now and a bit more sustain. I suspect that boogie sells crappy tubes.. at least I think so from this experience. :shock:

PS: I can now turn the gain all the way up and it doesn't freak out.

 

[Profklamen]

In the last two weeks I've bought 3 pair (6) El34 mesa tubes and 5 out of 6 rattle so badly that they are unuseble. I took the first pair back to Guitar Center, and they were nice enough to replace them, even though it is their policy not to take returns on tubes. Since then I've been corresponding directly with Mesa to get the others replaced or my money back.

They sound fine - nothing special - at higher volumes, but with the volume low and the treble rolled back on the guitar certain notes cause them to rattle loudly.

By the way, some of them weren't even close to matched. I tested them with my Weber bias meter. They were all gry tubes and the first two I checked were off by 11 ma. The next two I checked were within 2 ma, whick I consider a good match.

I've been out of town so I haven't been able to talk with Mesa in a few days, but I'll call again on Monday to see what they suggest.

By the way, the Lonestar is killer - I'm considering buying a second, so don't take this problem with 5 Mesa tubes as an overall criticism of Mesa quality. I'm very impressed with the amp.

 

[jbird]

I find it ironic to hear about so many problems with Mesa´s tubes, yet no mention of utilizing the six month warranty, or even they´re outstanding customer support!

 

[Profklamen]

jbird,

It would be off-topic to use this thread to talk about Mesa's outstanding customer support - the topic of this thread is "For those of you who have switched to non-Mesa tubes..."

I haven't brought up the six month warranty because Mesa has not yet lived up to it - I have every expectation that they will since they seem to be a first class company.

A great warranty does not completely make up for the inconvenience of being required to use Mesa tubes under warranty, and the available Mesa tubes being unuseable.

 

[no soul]

I find it ironic to hear about so many problems with Mesa´s tubes, yet no mention of utilizing the six month warranty, or even they´re outstanding customer support!

6 months, which is twice as long as anybody else.

Not to mention for those of who live close enough to Mesa HQ you practicaly have an unlimited supply of tubes for free. Just take your amp to the shop and get ready to get hooked up.

 

[Dreads]

Who cares about the warranty? I spent over $2,000. for a custom lonestar. I expect the tubes to work, not some BS about "using common sense" and I don't expect to be what I consider gouged by being forced to buy tubes from them or the warranty is void! No other company I've ever bought from, be it music, cars, tv.. any.. I've never heard of you being forced to by parts, batteries, etc directly from them just to keep the warranty.

Yeah, the amp is great, yeah I dig it. but Mesa's tubes in my case stunk and their policy is just plain ole wrongo! IMHO. :twisted: