'Flabby/Muddy' Bass on the Lonestar? Want to change it?

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Mod is a success, thanks again Charles! :) What I really like about this mod, is that when the EQ knobs are turned all the way down, there is no volume. This makes for accurate EQ dialing, regardless of flab or mud. I could see how this will help in reducing the flab and mud. Its as if I changed my EQ section from a parallel loop to a serial loop. The way it was before there was always a basic dry sound, which seemed to add to the problem. Now like a serial loop sound is introduced only through the EQ knobs like volume knobs. Very cool! More control, less subharmonic garble. If I had money to burn I could follow through with all the other mods Charles has suggested over the last few months and have an uber Lonestar.
 
Hey plan-x!

Glad you liked the mod! You are indeed an 'adventurous soul'...if I recall correctly...you were the first to try out the Channel-2 'mod' as well!

When I did the 'midrange-pot-mod' to my first Lonestar I included mini-toggle-switches so that I could use the amp either way (modded or unmodded)...but I have ended up using the amp almost exclusively with the mod in the circuit. It seems 'especially-useful' at higher volumes when the Lonestar would normally be beginning to 'fart-out'. That used to frustrate me terribly...because the tone was really starting to 'cook' at the very volume that the bass was beginning to 'bail-out' on me!

In addition; I have found this 'mod' really useful when playing through either 6V6s, Yellow Jackets (with EL84s), or any combination of the two. I get a really 'scrumptious' tone when I use a pair of JJ/Tesla 6V6s (#20 hardness; from the TubeDepot, Memphis) set on EL34 bias, matched to a pair of YJs with JJ EL84s. When coupled with either a 'hot' NOS, or 'hot' modern 12AX7 in V1, a 5751 in V2, and a 12AT7 in V5 (phase inverter)...I get a quite convincing 'squishy' vintage type tone. Anyone looking for a really high gain tone should probably ignore my pre-amp-tube recommendations!

Thanks for the review: Charles
 
Any mod thats free, I'm down for. Thanks again Charles! One of these days I'll get to that tube dance. When I win the lottery. :shock: As I recall, you have EV speaker(s) also? Thats another major investment I'll be dreaming of. While the money was flowing I was able to procure an extra set of JJ's and some weber speakers along with a V-30 and mojo V-30 knock off and some ext cabs. So I got some stuff to play with. Maybe I could afford to go for a pair of 6v6's. Oh, I forgot to ask you, do you(Charles) use diodes or tube rectifer? Tweed or full, toggle? I also built a 2x12 diagonal convertible cab that sounds fantastic, a poormans 4x12. Ok, enough of this hijacking. Get out there boys and do some soldering, cause you're gonna like this one. It's free and worthy. Just like the Reeder mod. We need another name also, say.......Reeder mid pot mod?
 
plan-x said:
Any mod thats free, I'm down for. Thanks again Charles! One of these days I'll get to that tube dance. When I win the lottery. :shock: As I recall, you have EV speaker(s) also? Thats another major investment I'll be dreaming of. While the money was flowing I was able to procure an extra set of JJ's and some weber speakers along with a V-30 and mojo V-30 knock off and some ext cabs. So I got some stuff to play with. Maybe I could afford to go for a pair of 6v6's. Oh, I forgot to ask you, do you(Charles) use diodes or tube rectifer? Tweed or full, toggle? I also built a 2x12 diagonal convertible cab that sounds fantastic, a poormans 4x12. Ok, enough of this hijacking. Get out there boys and do some soldering, cause you're gonna like this one. It's free and worthy. Just like the Reeder mod. We need another name also, say.......Reeder mid pot mod?

plan-x:

I use both the tube and solid-state rectifiers...it really depends on the tone I'm looking for at any particular time.

As to speakers:
#1. For the sake of mobility and the slight weight reduction; I moved my LSC Combo chassis into a LSS Combo cabinet. I'm currently using a Mesa C-90 Black Shadow in it...although I'm not 'completely' happy with it in the LSS cabinet. It seems a tad harsh to me...compared to how it sounds in the LSC cabinet. I have been tempted to go the EV-12L route with this combo...but it would cancel out all the weight reduction I gained with the switch. Still looking for something lighter.
#2. I have a LSC I x 12 extension cabinet that I put an EV-12L Series II 8-ohm speaker in. I am V-E-R-Y pleased with the sound. The weight of the cabinet is NOT EXCESSIVE with the EV 12L. I use it with my LSC Head.
#3. I have a LSC 1 X 12 Combo cabinet which I converted to use as an extension cabinet. I have a Mesa C-90 Black Shadow in it. I use it with the LSC Head...and I like the sound of this larger LSC cabinet. Currently, I leave this cabinet at one of the places I play regularly.
#4. I have a LSC 2 X12 Combo cabinet that I converted to an extension cabinet. It has 1 Mesa C-90 Black Shadow (16-ohm) and 1 Eminence 'Wizard' (16-ohm). I use this cabinet with my LSC Head as well. It sounds V-E-R-Y nice. Different sound than any of the others...more top-end shimmer.

It really sounds as if you are pretty well covered on speaker cabinets yourself...and I wouldn't really think you'd need a 4 X12 with what you have.

The 6V6s and the 6V6/YJ-EL84 tube combinations that I frequently use...allow me to get a really good 'cranked' tone at volumes that are practical where I play. To get a similar tone from 6L6s (even at the 50 watt setting) would just be way too loud. I have read some comments which say that using 6v6s and/or YJs with EL84s will not lower the volume that much. I disagree. My experience with them (the way I set them up) allows me to get a fully-saturated-tube-cranked-tone at noticeably lower volume than with 6L6s. I've done the volume comparisons at the places I play during setup. EVERYONE could hear the volume difference.

On pre-amp tubes. I just recently started using the 5751. They are NOT TOO expensive. If you have a few 12AT7s lying around you can put 1 in V2. It will give you an approximation of what the 5751 will do to the gain...but the 5751 is WAY more musical in that socket...so get one if you find the 12AT7 acceptable. Try the other 12AT7 in V5 (phase inverter)...it cleans up some of the 'background-muck'.
I went for AGES before I found a NOS tube that I liked in V1...I think what you put there is very much a matter of taste. Prior to finding that I like NOS RCAs in V1...I used Chinese Shuguang Hi-gain tubes as they are rather neutral sounding. The RCAs aren't (neutral sounding) but I really like the sound they have.

Because of my mods, speaker changes and tube-swaps; some people might get the impression that I didn't really like the Lonestar (as is)...well nothing could be farther from the truth. Stock...it came closer to the 'ideal' sound that I was hearing in my head than any other amp ever had. Closest yes...but not all the way there. So; I started wondering what I could do to get it the rest of the way there!

The 'mods' and suggestions that I have posted are the result of that quest.
I'm very glad that this 'mod' has worked out for you.

Enjoy! Charles
 
Charles,
Interestingly your tube choice in V1 and V2 is like mine. I use a RCA 12ax7 in V1 and a RCA 5751 in V2. I love those RCA tubes although the GE works great there too if you like a little more top-end.
I tried on the AT7 on the PI and like the result but pulled it out when I found out that it really not a good sub for 12AX7 due to different plate current. I'm not a techkie so I don't understand the tech stuff but in order to use it correctly, you may have to change some resistors value. A 12AY7 is a better sub electronically as I was told.
 
Charles Reeder said:
Monsta-Tone said:
This sounds really interesting.

There is precious little room on the bottom or back of the Lonestar chassis. You might be better off with Push-Pull pots. This way your amp is completely reversible and the controls are still on the front of the amp.

I like this suggestion.

But of course to really evaluate the 'mod' itself we would have to be certain to use pots with the same 'resistance' and 'taper' as the original 'stock' pots.

Bingo. This occurred to me as well; I've been looking around for a good place for the switches (haven't done the mod yet), and the push/pull thing is the obvious solution if you can find pots that match. Though, as you mention Charles, maybe something else might be even better (edit: by this, I mean pots with different taper)? Monsta, what do you think?

Where would one get some of these?
 
Great mod Charles. I removed almost all of my "flubby" bass and "farting" when I re-tubed with a complete set of JJ's. Maybe it was the El34's I don't know. Maybe it was the pre-amp package or the JJ rectifier tube, again I don't know. What I do know is the amp sounds much more "alive" and it flubs or farts no more.
 
It seems that they went to great lengths to capture some of the Vintage mojo.

Carbon Comp resistors in the signal chain, deep reverb, aluminum chassis.


I would be willing to bet that you could use CTS pots (same ones that Fender uses) and get even more of that type of response. Not sure if they have Push/Pull pots from CTS, but Antique Electronic Supply should. www.tubesandmore.com
 
Monsta-Tone said:
It seems that they went to great lengths to capture some of the Vintage mojo.

Carbon Comp resistors in the signal chain, deep reverb, aluminum chassis.


I would be willing to bet that you could use CTS pots (same ones that Fender uses) and get even more of that type of response. Not sure if they have Push/Pull pots from CTS, but Antique Electronic Supply should. www.tubesandmore.com
Would this do it, you think?
http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts...CH_TREE01=08_POTENT&SEARCH_TREE02=03_PUSHPULL
 
I did the mod. Very easy, took 30 min start to finish. I do notice a different slope to the mid/bass response. I like it.
Not an amp changing modification, but probably as impactful as the original "Reeder" mod. I have kept my amp "Reeder" modified and am happy with it. I do think that the two mods are an improvement in midrange management and for you "Twangy" pickers out there, I would recommend it.

I play out the next two nights, will repost impressions Sunday.

Thank You Charles.

Greg
 
loudguitars said:
I did the mod. Very easy, took 30 min start to finish. I do notice a different slope to the mid/bass response. I like it.
Not an amp changing modification, but probably as impactful as the original "Reeder" mod. I have kept my amp "Reeder" modified and am happy with it. I do think that the two mods are an improvement in midrange management and for you "Twangy" pickers out there, I would recommend it.

I play out the next two nights, will repost impressions Sunday.

Thank You Charles.

Greg

To "loudguitars":

Glad the 'mod' seems to be working out for you. Be sure to post your impressions after gigging this weekend...I'm sure some folks are awaiting results from the 'real world' of live music'!
I've been using mine every weekend since the latest 'mod' and grow more fond of the sound every time I play.

To 'djw' (and others considering doing the 'mod' using push/pull pots)

It just occurred to me last night:
All of the pots for channel-2 are a very tight fit and have to be carefully 'rocked' back and forth for removal. The edge of the circuit-board partially blocks access to the pots on channel-2. The push/pull pots are about twice as 'deep' as a stock pot in the Lonestar amps...so it will probably be necessary to remove the circuit-board in order to allow enough clearance to install the push/pull pots. NOTE: It wouldn't be necessary to 'completely unplug' and remove it entirely...just move it backwards far enough to allow insertion of the push/pull pots. I haven't been back into my amps to check it out...but I don't think this is any 'huge' undertaking.
The idea of using push/pull pots is a good one...but I thought you should be aware of this little 'difficulty' before proceeding.

Happy tinkering: Charles
 
Ok, thanks for pointing that out, Charles. I have not had a good block of time to myself when I could concentrate on this... I have a show tonight, so maybe after this weekend I can find some time. I might try hardwiring it first, since you confess you haven't really used the amp with the mod bypassed since you did it. If I like it with the levels as low as I mostly play, then maybe I'll just leave it. If not, then I'll have to figure out the best switching solution for me.
 
Hello,
I'm pretty new to this forum, but I joined it in order to try to get rid of some problems with my LSC. I did both the Reeder Mods on faith alone and can't thank you enough, Charles, now I don't have to constantly fiddle with channel 2,
Pine
 
Well, after this weekend, I would have to say that the midrange "reeder" mod is a success. I didn't tell the soundman or my drummer (who uses in-ears) what I did to the amp. After the 1st night I asked, "How does the amp sound?" The soundman said, " I had to turn you up a little and the guitar (Telecaster) sounds really clear tonight." He said that the LSC sounded more vintage than before. The drummer said that the guitar sounded less muddy. I would have to say that I did turn the mids up a little more than before the mod. I used to run them about 9 O'clock, now about 11 to 12 O'clock. I used channel two alot more for the Country stuff and just used my volume pedal position up and down for solos and louder parts of the songs. This mod is probably not for Metal guys, as the
area of mids that seem reduced are in the 400 to 800 Hz range. But, the bass control now seems more active above 1 and between 3 O'Clock. I could reach back and dial in all the thump that I needed for and Classic Rock stuff. But, for Country and Blues music and if you have a Gibson guitar I would recommend it! My vintage 335 sounds very "Carltonesque" with this mod.

Thanks Again Charles.
 
pine said:
Hello,
I'm pretty new to this forum, but I joined it in order to try to get rid of some problems with my LSC. I did both the Reeder Mods on faith alone and can't thank you enough, Charles, now I don't have to constantly fiddle with channel 2,
Pine
Now there's a short but sweet success story. Those mods are really cool.
 
Congratulations pirate.

Ah Charles...........I think a mod is needed in your "Quote" language. It never comes out as a quote but rather a quote=

How's your two band weekend gigging going?
 
Hey Lou!

No doubt you are correct about doing a 'mod' on my 'quotes'! Ha,Ha!
I'm computer illiterate; and so far have just been too lazy to look into another way of doing it.

The 2-band weekend thing is going fine so far. It keeps me in strings and tubes, and gives me justification (as if guitar players needed much) to buy more 'stuff'!

Charles
 
Lou said:
Congratulations pirate.

Thanks!

Sadly, I've left the fam again on my way to be reunited with my ship but also my LSC. I'll be doing the Mid Mod shortly after I get back. It sounds like everyone is digging it big time and I hope to join the list.
 
Congrats on your new one, thirstypirate!

Ok, I did this mod yesterday afternoon. What happened is actually a long and funny story, as I managed to reveal or cause a completely unrelated problem in the process of my first attempt to do the mod -- a failure based on enthusiasm matched only by a lack of preparation. (Short story: as I re-inserted the tubes, I apparently cracked one of them and the amp blew a fuse -- I thought it was something I did during the attempted mod, but soon I discovered the broken tube. New tube, new fuse, and all is good.)

Eventually I succeeded with the operation, and I am a happy camper so far. I just hardwired it for now, no switch. First impressions are that the difference is subtle at the levels I can play at home, though I can hear it. It does seem to focus the ranges that the controls affect, which is nice. So far I don't miss anything about the response I had before; I was concerned I might be unhappy at lower levels, but I can turn the bass up a lot more than before and it's fine.

One other nice thing is that it seems to have "dried out" the gain character. I like the term "dry" in reference to this, and if this sounds like a wine-related thing, it is -- I know, but hear me out. I'm a geek.

"Dryness" in wine usually refers to the lack of gratuitous, sugary sweetness or syrupy butter-and-vanilla character. These things tend to get in the way of the better, more unique qualities of a wine, and in fact often a wine that isn't dry has been doused with sugar and other crap to cover up the fact that it doesn't have any character to begin with. That's why wine geeks usually like their wines dry. Sweet wines have their place too, but that's the gist of the "dryness" thing.

I feel the same way about gain, and the muddiness thing to me translates to a lack of dryness. A nice, crisp, dry gain -- to me -- goes hand with transparency, in which the guitar's tone and player's attack are translated with minimal coloration. This is what the Reeder/pot-swap mod helped with in Ch2 tremendously: transparency.

This mod -- do we have a name for it yet? Poop 2 Pop? -- goes the rest of the way by drying out the gain a little more. It removes the background murkiness, that low-end mud that the gain signature seemed to literally be standing in a pool of: everything above a certain point was nice and clear, but below that point it was submerged in muck that blurred the lower harmonics. Now it's like you can hear everything, and those harmonics have been set free. The gain is crisp, from top to bottom. Ch1 and Ch2 both benefit from this.

That's what I've got so far. I'll let you know if anything changes. Thanks again, Charles.
 
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