First time Boogie buyer needing advice

[bossfrog]

Okay, here's where I am. I'm on a budget of no more than $1300 and I've narrowed my search down to a few choices. First though, it would be prudent to outline what I plan to use it for. I need an amp that can do beautiful cleans, that "edge of breakup" blues tone, a good classic rock tone, and thrash metal tones. I'm absolutely not interested in playing any kind of drop C type of stuff. When I say metal, I mean Priest, Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, Ratt, Accept, Alice in Chains (even though they're not purely metal). Classic rock means anything from Rush to Slash. Do I expect to get an exact replication of all of those tones? Of course not. I have a Line 6 M13 that my brother sold me for $200, so I can cover a lot of extra bases with that.

I guess if I were to score each type of sound according to its importance to me, it'd be something like this:

Cleans: 7
Blues: 6
Metal: 9
Classic rock: 7

So here what I'm looking at right now:

Mark III
Mark IV
Express 5:50 212
DC-5
F50

To anyone with experience with those amps, which one would you recommend and why? Is there another model I'm perhaps missing? I'm not really interested in anything with EL-84s, unless you think you can talk me into it.

 

[ricomock]

How quickly do you need to switch between tone's? At the press of a button, or do you want to go turn knobs? If you want the press of a button, a Mark IV is going to be as good as it gets

 

[bossfrog]

How quickly do you need to switch between tone's? At the press of a button, or do you want to go turn knobs? If you want the press of a button, a Mark IV is going to be as good as it gets

The "press of a button" is nice, and I would say preferable, but certainly wouldn't be a deciding factor. The option to do so certainly isn't worth more than an additional $100 to me.

 

[bossfrog]

I suppose a description of my guitar might be in order as well. I'm using a '91 American Strat with an HSH configuration (JB, Texas Special, PAF Pro) with coil cuts. Don't know if that makes much difference in an amp recommendation though.

 

[tony777]

Both amp can do what you're looking for. What I suggest is to buy the one that comes up first,
then sell it to buy the other one if you're not totally satisfied. If you buy them used, you will probably not loose any money.
The MKIII has shared tone controls over all three channels, and is more compromising than the MKIV. On the other hand, the IV has tons of knobs to get used to. I find myself always tweaking the IV, and pretty much playing the III. There is a mod for rhythm2 level that is a nessesity for live playing with the III. Both sound great.

 

[bossfrog]

Thanks Tony.

So I'm to understand that the other three just don't push the metal side of things adequately for thrash metal/black metal type stuff? How are the cleans and mild OD on the III and IV? Is either one any better in that respect? (I know I should just go listen to them, but the closest Boogie dealer to me is about 90 miles. It'll be a couple weeks before I can do that. So I figure I might as well get some opinions.) I'm not opposed to using a boost pedal to shove the lead channel into metal territory either if necessary.

 

[Spewnz]

the iv would be your best bet IMO. the cleans are nice the chunk tone is awesome and you could use an od to get in between if needed.

 

[avi8r2005]

my bets are always on a mark IV, seeing how I've owned 2 of them and love the hell out of them. If you want the versatility that can cover pretty much any tone you want, this is the amp. The only shared controls for EQ'ing it are on the r1 and r2 channels, which only share the mid and bass, both of those channels have separate treble, gain and presence and master volume controls. for a mid-gain range, that I guess would be similar to old marshall or something of that nature, that doesn't quite come into the realm of really saturated gain, R2 is the channel to use. R1 is a great clean channel and sounds great both with and without using the built in graphic EQ. The lead channel is what really makes the IV stand out. With the ability of using the graphic EQ, you can get just about any sound you can dream of. The amp has a lot of features, such as simul-class, pentode/triode, mid-gain/harmonics switching, etc, but don't let it intimidate you. Once you understand how everything works and learn how to EQ it, I think you'd be pretty pleased with it. On average you can get them used in the price range you are looking at.

On the other hand the Mark III is also a great sounding amp and I nearly pulled the trigger on buying one a few months ago. however, I like the ability to have each channel using it's own EQ and not a shared tone control over all three channels. Basically you could set one channel up to sound awesome, but have to compromise on the the others. If you only use one channel that would be ok, but I wanted everything in one package and the mark IV fit the bill. If you can try out one or all of these amps, it would be highly recommded before buying one. Good luck

 

[bossfrog]

On the other hand the Mark III is also a great sounding amp and I nearly pulled the trigger on buying one a few months ago. however, I like the ability to have each channel using it's own EQ and not a shared tone control over all three channels. Basically you could set one channel up to sound awesome, but have to compromise on the the others. If you only use one channel that would be ok, but I wanted everything in one package and the mark IV fit the bill. If you can try out one or all of these amps, it would be highly recommded before buying one. Good luck

Yeah, that's kinda what is pushing me away from the MK III a little bit. Independent EQ is pretty important for us channel-switchers. By the way, after talking to a guy at work today, I think I'm adding the Single Rec to my list. I know it does metal like all hell, but I'm told it also handles the the bluesier end of things much better than the Double and Triple Rec. Anyone else have the expertise to chime in on that?

I haven't seen anyone mention the F50 or DC-5 yet. I thought they might be good bang for the buck. Is there a good reason to steer clear of them within the context of what I'm looking for in an amp?

 

[Skyless7620]

I think for all out thrash The Mark III will be a bit better suited but there's no denying the IV wins in the versatility department if not for the single fact that it has independent EQ for each channel. I've owned both (currently have two Mark III's) and while I preferred the IV for jamming, playing around with different tones and whatnot, The III just has this grinding, no BS feel to it that makes you want to dominate :twisted: It's very well suited to aggressive sounding styles be it metal, steel string slide, dirty blues, shred etc. The Mark IV is a much more finesse amp in my eyes. Don't get me wrong however, it's lead channel's got a sh#$load of balls also!

 

[Paw]

Although I've never tried one, the Dual Recitifier Trem-o-Verb is known to have a great rhythm channel for clean and bluesy stuff, and a great lead channel for harder stuff. Maybe it may be what you're looking for?

 

[Neptical]

By the way, after talking to a guy at work today, I think I'm adding the Single Rec to my list. I know it does metal like all hell, but I'm told it also handles the the bluesier end of things much better than the Double and Triple Rec. Anyone else have the expertise to chime in on that?

I owned a Single Rec ( Solo 50 ) for 10 years and finally got rid of it about 6 months ago. The 'only' reason I ever kept it so long was because it was a gift from my folks. After many years of trying different tubes, tweaking, etc, that amp could never escape that boxy fizzy zone no matter what I did. With experience from being in a thrash band many moons ago, I can say that the Single Rec is definitely *not* geared for that sound. It's more for nu-metal which is definitely not my taste in music. The clean channel on it was just ok, but nothing even close to the Fender-ish cleans that the Mark series offers.

I've played many Mark IVs( A&B ) and love 'em, but they are different then the Mark III. They definitely do have the advantage of seperate EQ over the shared control EQ'ing of the Mark III but I still much prefer the sound of the III. I think the III ( as someone mentioned above ) is more plug-n-play then the IV, definitely. The III to my ears is more raw, more balls to the wall..all the while still maintaining that sweet smooth notorious classic Boogie lead tones. I also believe that the III is capable to closer sounding more Fender-ish in the cleans, but absolutely gets dominated by the R2 (rhythm channel ) & Lead, unless *you* can find an equal balance of all channels that suits you. I thought I would just save my time ( money's another story :lol: ) and grab another III so I could tie them together in the same rig. Problem solved. :twisted: 8) :wink:

I think the III is totally what your looking for in regards to that thrash tone. It was the sound of the era these amps were geared for. Also, not sure if it was mentioned yet, but the III's came in different 'stripe' variations as well that may also closer close in on the tone quest. You can find out more about that by the forum search option.

With that being said, good luck on your search. If you get the opportunity, go try 'em out if you come across any locally. You won't go wrong with either.

All the Best,
~Nep~

 

[bossfrog]

Thanks Nep, that was a very helpful post. I did a search and have been reading more on MK IVs and I'm seeing two polar opposite opinions. People either seem to consider them a tweaker's dream or a tweaker's nightmare. Either way, it's definately a tweaker's amp. And that's not even considering all the gadgets on the rear panel. People seem to either love the IV or hate it with not a lot in the middle. OTOH, it seems with the III there aren't nearly as many haters. I could be wrong.

 

[Neptical]

Thanks Nep, that was a very helpful post. I did a search and have been reading more on MK IVs and I'm seeing two polar opposite opinions. People either seem to consider them a tweaker's dream or a tweaker's nightmare. Either way, it's definately a tweaker's amp. And that's not even considering all the gadgets on the rear panel. People seem to either love the IV or hate it with not a lot in the middle. OTOH, it seems with the III there aren't nearly as many haters. I could be wrong.

Not a problem my friend!

Yeah, I totally agree..the whole tweaking of the IV could totally be love/hate.

Really, all I've ever seen folks say in regards to the III is just the shared EQ, otherwise you'll hear nothing but kickass reviews on the amp.

Keep us up to date and let us know whatcha get, try out, etc. I'm curious to know whatcha think after you play the Mark series amps. :wink:

All the Best,
~Nep~

 

[jpdennis]

Okay, here's where I am. I'm on a budget of no more than $1300 and I've narrowed my search down to a few choices ... I have a Line 6 M13 that my brother sold me for $200, so I can cover a lot of extra bases with that.

I use my Mark III & .50 Caliber mesas for stereo and a slight "unplugged" undertone with the M13. Whether you get the III or the IV you will have quite a bit of versatility using the M13. My personal experience with Mesa amps is that once you get the one you with the overall tone you are looking for and take the time to learn how to fine tune GAS sets in and there is the need for "just one more Mark" :lol:

Don't ask me how I know :roll:

Dennis

 

[Fronzil]

I will never understand people who say they spend more time tweaking then playing the IV...I have my favorite setting dialed in for each channel, and each pedal, and I pretty much leave em there (except if my ears are hearing certain frequencies slightly different that day)..between 2 OD's (1 with a built in clean boost), 2 delays and 3 channels on the amp, (not to mention the 100 sounds available to the JPBFR) I have way more then enough sounds to play with in many genres.

 

[A_Ryder]

Okay, here's where I am. I'm on a budget of no more than $1300 and I've narrowed my search down to a few choices. First though, it would be prudent to outline what I plan to use it for. I need an amp that can do beautiful cleans, that "edge of breakup" blues tone, a good classic rock tone, and thrash metal tones. I'm absolutely not interested in playing any kind of drop C type of stuff. When I say metal, I mean Priest, Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, Ratt, Accept, Alice in Chains (even though they're not purely metal). Classic rock means anything from Rush to Slash. Do I expect to get an exact replication of all of those tones? Of course not. I have a Line 6 M13 that my brother sold me for $200, so I can cover a lot of extra bases with that.

I guess if I were to score each type of sound according to its importance to me, it'd be something like this:

Cleans: 7
Blues: 6
Metal: 9
Classic rock: 7

So here what I'm looking at right now:

Mark III
Mark IV
Express 5:50 212
DC-5
F50

To anyone with experience with those amps, which one would you recommend and why? Is there another model I'm perhaps missing? I'm not really interested in anything with EL-84s, unless you think you can talk me into it.

Pretty well any mesa/boogie will work for those kinds of sounds, it comes down to other factors like:- availability, size, weight, price, versatility, simple vs tweak-a-lot, modern(Recto) vs classic boogie(Mark)... what format? combo, rack, head/cab, what size cab ...

I dunno much about the DC5, F50 and Express, I've got a Triaxis (love it), 2 Ch Rev-G Dual Recto (very cool), Mark IIC+ (great clean, crunch, lead) great amp, Subway Rocket - small, light, plug/play and rock (very handy).

Oh I also have a Quad Preamp (gets classic boogie tones) and I had a Studio Preamp (I liked its clean tone better). Either of those will do what you want (except the Recto sound).

So yeah for clean, blues, crunch, metal pretty well any mesa/boogie amp will work, it just comes down to all the other things I mentioned.

Don't be fooled into thinking more switches, modes, channels and whatever is always better. I'd rather have 2 or 3 great sounds rather than 300 crappy ones.

Apart from the tones you listed what other factors are important to you?

 

[tony777]

I will never understand people who say they spend more time tweaking then playing the IV....

I will tell you why, and it's easy. I have a C+, actually I have two c+'s and everytime I play the IV I try to get it to sound like a C+. it's close, but it isn't quite there, my III is closer.

 

[bossfrog]

To anyone with experience with those amps, which one would you recommend and why? Is there another model I'm perhaps missing? I'm not really interested in anything with EL-84s, unless you think you can talk me into it.

Pretty well any mesa/boogie will work for those kinds of sounds, it comes down to other factors like:- availability, size, weight, price, versatility, simple vs tweak-a-lot, modern(Recto) vs classic boogie(Mark)... what format? combo, rack, head/cab, what size cab ...

I dunno much about the DC5, F50 and Express, I've got a Triaxis (love it), 2 Ch Rev-G Dual Recto (very cool), Mark IIC+ (great clean, crunch, lead) great amp, Subway Rocket - small, light, plug/play and rock (very handy).

Oh I also have a Quad Preamp (gets classic boogie tones) and I had a Studio Preamp (I liked its clean tone better). Either of those will do what you want (except the Recto sound).

So yeah for clean, blues, crunch, metal pretty well any mesa/boogie amp will work, it just comes down to all the other things I mentioned.

Don't be fooled into thinking more switches, modes, channels and whatever is always better. I'd rather have 2 or 3 great sounds rather than 300 crappy ones.

Apart from the tones you listed what other factors are important to you?

Well, a combo is fine for my purposes. If I went for a head, I'd be compromising on a cab to stay on budget (which could be done, I've seen used 5150 cabs go under $300 for instance). Price is a significant factor. If for instance one was to say a Mark IV would be ideal but a <whatever> is $400 less and gets you close enough, I'd seriously consider <whatever>. I'm absolutely not interested in a rack system. The separate EQs is a big deal, but not worth more than perhaps $300 to me.

Maybe you can help me rule out some of my options. Why should I avoid the F50, DC-5, or Express 5:50? I'm not saying I have any preference either way about them, only that nobody has commented on them. The only comments have been about the Marks. Is there something about them that doesn't fit my stated purposes, etc? I think I can probably take the Express off the list since its right in the same price range of the Marks, but the 5 watt mode is nice. I'm curious as to opinions on the F50 and DC-5 though.

 

[Fronzil]

I will never understand people who say they spend more time tweaking then playing the IV....

I will tell you why, and it's easy. I have a C+, actually I have two c+'s and everytime I play the IV I try to get it to sound like a C+. it's close, but it isn't quite there, my III is closer.

still doesn't explain it haha....I can tell the difference between the IIC+ and IV but I don't have one..you're gonna get the best possible sound out of your IV that you can get, why keep tweaking? ...my point is, I've owned the IV over a year, and after the initial 2 months of tweaking, I basically haven't since except when I feel like seeing what other sounds it has, trying different guitars etc..but when I plug in my BFR (pretty much the only guitar I play now), there is no tweaking. I dial it in within 20 seconds, then play.