Extreme - not enough gain

[Rkorn]

Hey,
when I tried the amp at the store, i was amazed by the amounts and quality of the gain in extreme set.
Now i haven't been able to get a good tone out of that mode. Is it the electricity? the tubes? the amp?
Then I remembered, when i tried the amp for the first time I took a custom made guitar from a friend to the store (i have one on order as well).
When i asked him to plug his guitar to the amp... great sound again! The problem was neither of the ones mentioned above.
It is the guitar, i bought new batteries, top of the line Duracel, Energizer etc... nothing... now i ordered a Heavy duty battery and I will be getting it by the end of the week...
My guitar is a schecter Hellraiser C1-Fr... and the same guitar i've been trying to sell as i think it was too expensive for what it is, the tone it has.... it is very plastic, and the pick-ups are awful in this guitar as it does have good hardware but very poor quality wood.
Now i'm sure, this amp, which is great, also needs a great guitar (mine should arrive in January) and the schecter is not the case.
I've roamed around to see what makes this guitar be appreciated by everyone and i've come to the conclusion, almost everyone uses pedals, and that is the problem, they don't understand how not good this guitar is...
This is just my opinion on this guitar!!

 

[screamingdaisy]

A friend of mine told me a saying a long time ago...

Garbage In = Garbage Out

 

[HeadlessAxeman]

Is there a legit question in all of that? Seemed more like rambling to me.

With a great amp...even a starter guitar will sound decent if not great..unless you've yanked out all the wires inside.
From what sense I could make of it...looks like you are using active pickups...and actives sound pretty great on the Mark V..not the best probably..but very Metal.

 

[yeti]

im willing to bet something with your wiring in that guitar is bum.

 

[ifailedshapes]

Is there a legit question in all of that? Seemed more like rambling to me.

Not every post has to be question.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

IMO the Mark V is quite sensitive to pickups. Bad pickups sound bad through the V. It's not like, e.g., a 5150 where it kind of sounds the same no matter what you plug in.

 

[Rkorn]

Yes, this is a bit of a complaint!
More to myself than anyone else, maybe the guitar has some problem inside, but I rather sell it than trying to find the problem!
This is more like a warning to who ever may be buying this amp...

 

[phyrexia]

That is a good thing about the Mark V, not a bad thing. You're upset 'cause your guitar sounds crappy :lol:

Does your guitar have EMG 81 + 85? How close are the pickups to the strings?

 

[BrownieD2W]

IMO the Mark V is quite sensitive to pickups.

I definitely second that. Really brings out the individual sound of each guitar and its respective pickups. Maybe not so much on Channel 1 but maybe that's just because I keep it super clean, but Channel 2 and 3 are extremely sensitive to a change in pickups or guitars.

But as far as the OP, I had an issue with the Input Jack on one of my guitars, and had similar problems, had to pull it out and kind of bend the prongs inward a bit more to make sure it fit snug. I had no idea what was going on until I accidentally put some pressure on the cable and all the sudden the guitar/amp just opened up.

So if its something like that or a wiring issue (which is most likely is), I definitely wouldn't call your post a warning about the amp.

 

[Scary]

I have a 27 fret hamer that just screams METAL every time I plug it in to the Mark V. It makes the amp sound very different from a fender strat. It sounds like a different amp with that thing plugged in.

 

[DudewithFr0]

I saw the word Schecter...thats the problem. Ive never played a good schecter. Also i feel that active pickups have no character to them. A good set of Dimarzios or Seymour Duncans sound the best IMO through a mark V.

 

[farren]

It's an electric guitar. If you have a significant tone problem specific to a guitar that isn't associated with sustain or wolf tones (in other words, if the guitar resonates properly), the problem lies in the electronics which are responsible for 95% of an electric guitar's tone characteristics. I have a Hellraiser C-7 with fully replaced electronics including a DiMarzio Evolution 7 and Air Norton 7. It sounds like a properly wired, properly set up electric guitar with a DiMarzio Evo7 and Air Norton 7 in it--simple. Don't let the guitar lore cultists fool you into thinking it's an inherent problem with your instrument associated with the name on the headstock or the "tone woods" used--I have more expensive guitars with other DiMarzio configurations and the only difference in tone color beyond strings used and scale length is the difference in pickup output and frequency response as delineated in the pickups' specs.

I loathe EMGs and actives in general, but you shouldn't be having a gain problem with your setup. My '80s Kramer Baretta has an EMG 81 in it, and while I don't care for the tone of it through my Mark V or any other amp, there's plenty of gain. Your only problem is faulty guitar wiring. Check your connections. Resolder, and if that doesn't work, replace the pots/switch.

 

[yeti]

It's an electric guitar. If you have a significant tone problem specific to a guitar that isn't associated with sustain or wolf tones (in other words, if the guitar resonates properly), the problem lies in the electronics which are responsible for 95% of an electric guitar's tone characteristics. I have a Hellraiser C-7 with fully replaced electronics including a DiMarzio Evolution 7 and Air Norton 7. It sounds like a properly wired, properly set up electric guitar with a DiMarzio Evo7 and Air Norton 7 in it--simple. Don't let the guitar lore cultists fool you into thinking it's an inherent problem with your instrument associated with the name on the headstock or the "tone woods" used--I have more expensive guitars with other DiMarzio configurations and the only difference in tone color beyond strings used and scale length is the difference in pickup output and frequency response as delineated in the pickups' specs.

I loathe EMGs and actives in general, but you shouldn't be having a gain problem with your setup. My '80s Kramer Baretta has an EMG 81 in it, and while I don't care for the tone of it through my Mark V or any other amp, there's plenty of gain. Your only problem is faulty guitar wiring. Check your connections. Resolder, and if that doesn't work, replace the pots/switch.

+100

as i said above! bum wiring.

 

[Rkorn]

I have EMGs. You can search the guitar, it's a Schecter Hellraiser C1-FR black (not one of those new B-stock - which I can't seem to understand why are they B-Stock, and what are the differences).
The strings have the actions as I like, that shouldn't make a difference.
My friends custom guitar with schaller just sounds VERY VERY good in this amp... and this guitar doesn't.
I don't think the problem is actually the EMG. There are some top of the range guitars with EMG.
It's the quality of the wood of the guitar... at least that is what the luthier that is building my other guitar says...

 

[ifailedshapes]

It's the quality of the wood of the guitar... at least that is what the luthier that is building my other guitar says...

It's in his best interest to say that. He makes more money building you a custom instrument than selling you new electronics.

 

[ixoye777]

It's the quality of the wood of the guitar... at least that is what the luthier says...

Your luthier (although he may be excellent at his job) is either lying to you or is a cork sniffing nipplehead. The type of wood a guitar is made of is the very last thing that determines the color of your tone and has nothing to do with how much gain your amp produces. Amp, pickups and then guitar woods in that order is how tone is determined.

As a couple people above stated it is an electrical issue. If you build a guitar by gluing spaghetti together and properly wire in and EMG 81 it will have tones of gain on the extreme mode. It is not the type of wood in your Schecter.

 

[Rkorn]

I understand that he may be lying, I ordered the guitar from him before buying this one, but he gives me solid points and examples with his guitars.
About the wood being the last in the chain for tone... is completely wrong.
That's why you have a characteristic sound to each guitar, Les Paul, Stat, etc... even with different pickups... the sound is more or less the same.
If James Hetfield played my guitar, which have the same pick ups as some of his guitars, through his rig it would sound completely different.
A good piece of wood, makes ALL the difference. That's why you have B-stocks, lesser quality of wood for squier compared to fender etc.
Explain a Kirk Hammet guitar and a cheaper one with same pickups... one sounds GREAT, the other not so great. And please don't say it is the wiring that is crap.

PS: with that line of thought I should have a great tone... Good amp (mark V), EMGs, and some wood made by schecter (everyone says it's great, great specs really cheap). Shouldn't I have a great tone? I have a nice tone... not great, due to the guitar! With top of the range guitars the amps screams great tone for whatever the purpose...
I think I should buy the cheapest guitar and put some top of the line pickups... Why the hell do great guitar players use expensive guitars?? (again, and please don't say it is just endorsements of marketing)

 

[ixoye777]

Here's the thing: You take a sub $500 LP copy like the Agiles I play and a Gibby LP Custom (I purchased one new in '94) and put the same pups, electronics, bridge and nut in them and they sound darn near identical. The Gibby is without question the higher quality instrument in all aspects (crafsmanship, overall fit and finish, quality of woods, etc). After the above mentioned mods though the difference in tone is very slim.

To those of us who love tone we can discern the differences varying tone woods give us but make no mistake the type/quality of wood takes a back seat to 1. Amp 2. Pups. and 3. Fingers, in determining your tone.

If you take 2 identical LP's and load one with Active EMG's and the other with SD Alnico II's the difference in tone is far greater then 2 LP's with the same pups but one has Honduran Mahogany and the other African.

Now to stop arguing and re-iterate what will practically help you! Re-read farren's post in regards to your original complaint about the MV not having enough gain. You need to re-wire your guitar and put in some quality electronics!

 

[espmaster1]

I understand that he may be lying, I ordered the guitar from him before buying this one, but he gives me solid points and examples with his guitars.
About the wood being the last in the chain for tone... is completely wrong.
That's why you have a characteristic sound to each guitar, Les Paul, Stat, etc... even with different pickups... the sound is more or less the same.
If James Hetfield played my guitar, which have the same pick ups as some of his guitars, through his rig it would sound completely different.
A good piece of wood, makes ALL the difference. That's why you have B-stocks, lesser quality of wood for squier compared to fender etc.
Explain a Kirk Hammet guitar and a cheaper one with same pickups... one sounds GREAT, the other not so great. And please don't say it is the wiring that is crap.

PS: with that line of thought I should have a great tone... Good amp (mark V), EMGs, and some wood made by schecter (everyone says it's great, great specs really cheap). Shouldn't I have a great tone? I have a nice tone... not great, due to the guitar! With top of the range guitars the amps screams great tone for whatever the purpose...
I think I should buy the cheapest guitar and put some top of the line pickups... Why the hell do great guitar players use expensive guitars?? (again, and please don't say it is just endorsements of marketing)

TO reference your last point, because they generally have the best playability and tone. If you're talking about wood, more expensive guitars generally have better tone woods and better resonance creating a better sound. Pups are a cog in the machine, but what it boils down to is how your hands play the instrument and what tone can you produce just on a clean sound with no reverb or effects, that's when it's easily discernible between nicer guitars versus less nice ones.

And the reason why there are characteristics sounds has a lot to do with the pups... Like, LP's = humbuckers, strat = single coils, the difference is more than obvious. If you didn't know a lot about guitars/tone and put strat pups in a LP, it'd be pretty hard to tell the difference. There's way too many factors to go into this argument to really spend time on it...

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rkorn]

just a question... what is COG?
The hands that are playing are very important, technique is so important in tone. I believe this Mark is making me, step by step improve on my technique, because now i can hear everything that is happening, and before I didn't.

To end with all this wood talk, which i believe leads nowhere as I have my point of view and some have others.
When I have a great guitar, with great wood, any pups will sound good.
A crap guitar doesn't sound GREAT with a good pups, it just sounds better.