I have the 5-50 as well and noticed the same thing about the clean channel vollume. You have to really turn it up and I have found that keeping the master at 3 o'clock and use the gain for to get the desired volume. In fact if you switch it to crunch channel you can use it as an alternative clean using the same settings and to me it is a far better clean sound and a lot more punch to it. I usually use the crunch as the clean channel.
Express 5:50 I can't get enough power
- Thread starter Cuistre
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Cuistre - Did you originally purchase a 1 X 12 5:50? If you did, then I would guess that that was your problem.
I own a 2 X 12 5:50 and it is crazy loud (with the clean channel's gain at 11 o'clock, by the time the volume knob is at 11 o'clock you're at gig level) - definitely cuts through the mix in my band (classic and current rock). I also use a Xotic Effects BB preamp along with an MI Audio Crunch Box and an MI Audio Tube Zone - haven't ever had the urge to use an additional 2 X 12 cab to be heard!
I own a 2 X 12 5:50 and it is crazy loud (with the clean channel's gain at 11 o'clock, by the time the volume knob is at 11 o'clock you're at gig level) - definitely cuts through the mix in my band (classic and current rock). I also use a Xotic Effects BB preamp along with an MI Audio Crunch Box and an MI Audio Tube Zone - haven't ever had the urge to use an additional 2 X 12 cab to be heard!
Actually, the problem was I didn't know how to set this amp properly.
With the gain at 12:00 this is very loud when you set the master at 8-9:00!
And don't hesitate to modify your EQ settings as you turn up or down your master. It has a great influence on the presence of the amp in the mix. I discovered it just by reading the owner's manual where the exact action of each setting is explained. I didn't understand everything since it is in english, but most of explanations.
And of course, external effects as OD, boost or whatever will add loudness to your sound.
I definitely love this amp, it kicks ***!
This is the 1x12
With the gain at 12:00 this is very loud when you set the master at 8-9:00!
And don't hesitate to modify your EQ settings as you turn up or down your master. It has a great influence on the presence of the amp in the mix. I discovered it just by reading the owner's manual where the exact action of each setting is explained. I didn't understand everything since it is in english, but most of explanations.
And of course, external effects as OD, boost or whatever will add loudness to your sound.
I definitely love this amp, it kicks ***!
This is the 1x12
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I've been using the crunch mode for most of my clean sounds when I play with my band, usning the guitar's volume controls to clean it up.
This is how I use my Fender '57 tweed Deluxe (5E3) clone, and this mode is most similar to that amp's sound. I guess that's why I gravitate towards it.
The amp really cuts through the mix this way.
This is how I use my Fender '57 tweed Deluxe (5E3) clone, and this mode is most similar to that amp's sound. I guess that's why I gravitate towards it.
The amp really cuts through the mix this way.
Newysurfer
Well-known member
Cuistre said:
+1
I've heard these kind of complaints with people owning new amps for years. Every amp has a different voice and it's all about experimenting with the EQ's of any new amp to find your right niche in a bands mix. And every band has a different voicing too so it's every players part to find the right niche so you're all heard without playing at silly volume levels.
When I got my 5:50 after owning a JCM900 for years it was exactly the same thing. Had to spend time experimenting to find the right band mix EQ. You have to do this with all new amps. Just cranking the volume higher is rarely the right solution. And you can't do this while standing on stage. I get the other guitarist or bass player to play my rig and stand back 15m. The Express is a loud 50w amp IMHO. I've never had it past 12pm in a rock band situation. I usually mic it and I've got a closed cab too with V30's.
Tonight some friends and I start a new metal cover band :lol: , I let you know about the 5:50 performances in this kind of music. I have to boost the overdrive with my Vox Tonelab LE.
First song to play? Ace of Spades from Motörhead then Creeping Death from Metallica... 8)
First song to play? Ace of Spades from Motörhead then Creeping Death from Metallica... 8)
chemten
Well-known member
if you can get the volume you want out of the amp, why does it matter if the master vol is on 2 or 9?
because if you're at 9/10 you don't have any volume reserve if you have to play louder... It would be a problem for me, but yesterday was a great first gig, this amp is so loud since i found the right settings that sometimes the drummer couldn't be heard!
This is an amazing amp.
This is an amazing amp.
Cuistre, could you share what eq settings you found to work in a band situation? I tried the gain at noon and master at 11:30 and I'm not sure if this is loud enough in a band situation (clean channel - basement). No problem with the other channels.
This is really simple, my EQ settings are Treble 13:00, Middle 10-11:00 and Bass 12:30 for clean Channel. It also depends on the stompboxes/ multieffects settings I use ... Gain and Master are at about 9:00. This could be not enough in a band, your guitar straight ahead in the amp but enough if you use device between your guitar and amp which have master volume or something.
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If the amp doesn't cut through the mix get it off the floor. Put it on an amp stand or a chair.
There will be slightly less bass but the amp will be heard better.
These amps have a smooth and kind of mellow channel that can get lost in a band.
There will be slightly less bass but the amp will be heard better.
These amps have a smooth and kind of mellow channel that can get lost in a band.
TheRazMeister
Well-known member
One thing I've noticed with some Fender amps..for example, the Hot Rod Deluxe. Is that the volume of the amp on 2 is insanely loud. But after 4 it just gets more distorted and not any louder. I know with my Rectoverb that if I had the amp Output on 5 (12:00) and the channel master on 3 (9:00) it would definitely be loud enough to be heard over most drummers.
As long as you have more headroom from 11:00 to say 2:00, I wouldn't worry about it. If 11:00 is your max on headroom...you have a problem.
As long as you have more headroom from 11:00 to say 2:00, I wouldn't worry about it. If 11:00 is your max on headroom...you have a problem.
Loudness is all in the EQ the reason your buddys 15W blues junior cuts so well is that its got lots of mids and highs from the el84's, its an open back cab which is more efficient than sealed cabs also the sounds is spread out in all directions.
When you get 6l6 tubes cooking they will not cut as well as el84's its a different sound. The 5:50 has lots of controls but when you get the power tubes working those controls become less effective and its all up to the sound of your tubes and the amps' voicing. If you try to fight the sounds of your power tubes by messing with gain or setting too extreme EQ settings you get mud
I had a 1x12 18watt clone with 2 knobs volume and tone (the tone was always cranked) that would murder my buddys marshall TSL 100watt & 4x12. I had my master 3/4 of the way up with an attenuator about half way down so cutting the power down to about 10 watts.
I could get my tubes cooking but he could not without drowning out everything else. IF you dont get your tubes cooking you will not likely get heard unless you get your EQ setting just right.
If you turn up your amp it uses up the space for other instruments so what you will hear is that your amp is still not cutting through, but now its drowning everything else.
How much sense does it make that you got a 100watt amp to compete against a 15watt blues junior?.
There is a big difference between being loud and being heard
When you get 6l6 tubes cooking they will not cut as well as el84's its a different sound. The 5:50 has lots of controls but when you get the power tubes working those controls become less effective and its all up to the sound of your tubes and the amps' voicing. If you try to fight the sounds of your power tubes by messing with gain or setting too extreme EQ settings you get mud
I had a 1x12 18watt clone with 2 knobs volume and tone (the tone was always cranked) that would murder my buddys marshall TSL 100watt & 4x12. I had my master 3/4 of the way up with an attenuator about half way down so cutting the power down to about 10 watts.
I could get my tubes cooking but he could not without drowning out everything else. IF you dont get your tubes cooking you will not likely get heard unless you get your EQ setting just right.
If you turn up your amp it uses up the space for other instruments so what you will hear is that your amp is still not cutting through, but now its drowning everything else.
How much sense does it make that you got a 100watt amp to compete against a 15watt blues junior?.
There is a big difference between being loud and being heard
TheRazMeister
Well-known member
coppa said:
Not sure I agree. My rectoverb will melt your ears with 6L6's. I really think it has more to do with where the threshold for the amp is. Again, I'm sure the Blues Jr has very little more to go in terms of volume after 11:00 but I bet the express 5:50 does.
nomad100hd
Well-known member
with that fender it's 15W clean but the PA distortion pushes past that. 50W isn't twice as loud as a 15W amp. Then that fender has el84's and those are bright chimmy tubes but not a lot of low end which means all that power is focus to cut. Then like said before it could be a bad tube.
I run a single rec into a dummy load and speaker sim and Ive turned the master all the way up before to get those 6l6's working as hard as they can and Id say its more of a Fat sound I mean F A T rather than something that would cut well. Im talking about eq here not loudness as in my set up loudness and wattage of any amp I run in it is completely irrelevant. Its when you try to get it into a mix with something else that you notice that the sound you had dialed in when you were playing alone needs to be adjusted a bit to stand out.
Id say mess with the eq for at least a full week with any new mesa before drawing any conclusions about the sound
Id say mess with the eq for at least a full week with any new mesa before drawing any conclusions about the sound
Cuistre, you were right about the eq - especially the treble. Once the treble is pushed past 13:00 the volume starts to increase noticably. It's a tad more treble than what I usually play with but the volume is there and the tone is still quite nice.
Cranking the treble seems (to my ear) to make this amp sound a little bit closer to the mark series; loud with a lot of presence.
Cranking the treble seems (to my ear) to make this amp sound a little bit closer to the mark series; loud with a lot of presence.
I think a lot of people don't realize that the Express really needs a pedal to get good higher gain sounds. I've found that turning up the gain on the Express makes the amp too aggressive sounding, so I find that you need to use the gain as the main eq to get in the vicinity of the tone your after (fine tuning with the rest of the eq), and use an overdrive to get into higher gain territory. This amp takes pedals very very well. If you want "plug and play" this isn't appealing, but it makes the amp VERY versatile with the right pedals.rabies said:
