ED Dissapointment
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YellowJacket
Well-known member
DWAKO said:
Yes. A $3,000 guitar upgraded with custom electronics and boutique pickups and a custom built homemade cab FINALLY did the trick with that amp... Now, I have an Electra Dyne and I'm back gigging on my $700 Godin LG and it sounds fantastic~!
toneocaster
Active member
So, I had a few hours today and I started from square one. I got my ED, my TA, and the manual and sat down to see what I could do. First, for me, this amp is just too loud. It's either balls to the wall, or it's bedroom level....(and at this level, that's where the trim switch on the back works....correct?). I then realized that my knowledge on ganged pots wasn't what I thought it was. You guys may disagree with me, but this amp takes a hell of a lot of time to get the hang of. I find that there's nothing simple about this amp at first.....I've owned it for 5 months?? What sounds great at home, I guarentee won't sound the same as the volume increases, case in point, Friday's gig.
I'm still not sure exactly why the trim switch exists? If I understand correctly it only works when the master is lower than 9:00? If it could be used at all volumes, then to me it would make the amp more user friendly. I found that at the settings I used Friday night, the hi-lo was really bassy compared to the clean, my original complaint. I turned the treble up while on hi and brought it to life, only to have to adjust the bass and mids to have a decent clean tone that didn't take your head off, but then the volume changes?? I know you hard-core Mesa guys may think I'm crazy, but I was thinking it was a simple amp like a PRS / Sewell. I have a Hot Rod Deluxe that I use for smaller clubs and it's built on the same principle.....clean and two gain stages. The BIG difference, the hi-lo on the Fender has a dedicated master.....so you can equally adjust all 3 modes at any volume....just sayin'! Can't achieve that with the ED, not a higher volumes anyway??
The amp originally was owned by a former Mesa employee who moved back to Texas. It was his going away gift in 2009, which I think was a cool way to say adios! He fell on hard times and I was in the right place at the right time and two fools met. I may try some EL-34's and play with it a while longer. As it stands, I pretty disappointed and I'll be the first to admit, it's probably just me?? Thanks again for all the help and suggestions given. I'll keep y'all posted!
I'm still not sure exactly why the trim switch exists? If I understand correctly it only works when the master is lower than 9:00? If it could be used at all volumes, then to me it would make the amp more user friendly. I found that at the settings I used Friday night, the hi-lo was really bassy compared to the clean, my original complaint. I turned the treble up while on hi and brought it to life, only to have to adjust the bass and mids to have a decent clean tone that didn't take your head off, but then the volume changes?? I know you hard-core Mesa guys may think I'm crazy, but I was thinking it was a simple amp like a PRS / Sewell. I have a Hot Rod Deluxe that I use for smaller clubs and it's built on the same principle.....clean and two gain stages. The BIG difference, the hi-lo on the Fender has a dedicated master.....so you can equally adjust all 3 modes at any volume....just sayin'! Can't achieve that with the ED, not a higher volumes anyway??
The amp originally was owned by a former Mesa employee who moved back to Texas. It was his going away gift in 2009, which I think was a cool way to say adios! He fell on hard times and I was in the right place at the right time and two fools met. I may try some EL-34's and play with it a while longer. As it stands, I pretty disappointed and I'll be the first to admit, it's probably just me?? Thanks again for all the help and suggestions given. I'll keep y'all posted!
jeffp
Well-known member
i can`t answer any of your questions. I`ve only had mine for a couple weeks when almost the whole time i was unfortunately working and could not play around with it. The tone is fantastic!......But i have not figured out the clean trim or the clean/normal/LoHI switch. It seems to change everything volume related to somewhere in between where you are and where you want to be. I expect some compromises and still I`m certainly depending on it being workable. We need to hear from some EXPERIENCED ED Owners! How bout it guys?jeffp
screamingdaisy
Well-known member
I don't know the details about the clean gain trimmer as my amp pre-dates that modification, however I believe the purpose was to balance the clean and Vintage Lo/Hi volumes when using it at low volumes. Once you get above a certain volume the channels naturally balance themselves thanks to a little (or a lot) or power amp compression.
I know on mine at 10:00 (master volume) the clean and vintage Lo channel are pretty balanced, with a slight boost going into Vintage Hi. That's read off the dB meter.
However, at 8:00 (master volume) if my clean channel is too loud or too quiet I have to adjust the Volume (gain) knob to compensate... whereas amps like yours have the gain trimmer on the rear so you don't have to adjust the gain on all three channels just to correct your clean balance.
Long story short, as long as I keep my gain between 11:00 and 1:00 there's no real need for a gain trimmer.
Don't know if that info will help you or not... but there it is.
Edit: I don't believe the gain trimmer functions as a separate master volume for the clean channel. I believe it adjusts the final volume by adjusting adjusting the preamp gain. As an example... if you set your master volume low and play with the clean channel's Volume (gain) knob you can hear the volume increase or decrease. That's how I think the gain trimmer functions.
I know on mine at 10:00 (master volume) the clean and vintage Lo channel are pretty balanced, with a slight boost going into Vintage Hi. That's read off the dB meter.
However, at 8:00 (master volume) if my clean channel is too loud or too quiet I have to adjust the Volume (gain) knob to compensate... whereas amps like yours have the gain trimmer on the rear so you don't have to adjust the gain on all three channels just to correct your clean balance.
Long story short, as long as I keep my gain between 11:00 and 1:00 there's no real need for a gain trimmer.
Don't know if that info will help you or not... but there it is.
Edit: I don't believe the gain trimmer functions as a separate master volume for the clean channel. I believe it adjusts the final volume by adjusting adjusting the preamp gain. As an example... if you set your master volume low and play with the clean channel's Volume (gain) knob you can hear the volume increase or decrease. That's how I think the gain trimmer functions.
YellowJacket
Well-known member
Hot tips:
1) Use the mid knob as a second volume knob. Turn it up for rehearsal / gigs, and turn it down for bedroom jamming. I use separate EQ settings for practice and performance because my needs are different.
2) Set your gig volume on the blue and red channels. Then use the clean level trim pot to balance the volume of the clean channel with the blue and red channels.
3) The gain trim switch changes the amount of gain you can dial in. Set to clean, it gives more clean headroom on the clean channel so you can dial in more gain saturation on the blue and red channels. Set to lo/hi, it dials in less gain on the blue and red channels so you can use the clean channel for a blues tone, the blue channel as a blues / alternate clean channel, and the red channel for a low gain lead tone.
Hope that helps.
1) Use the mid knob as a second volume knob. Turn it up for rehearsal / gigs, and turn it down for bedroom jamming. I use separate EQ settings for practice and performance because my needs are different.
2) Set your gig volume on the blue and red channels. Then use the clean level trim pot to balance the volume of the clean channel with the blue and red channels.
3) The gain trim switch changes the amount of gain you can dial in. Set to clean, it gives more clean headroom on the clean channel so you can dial in more gain saturation on the blue and red channels. Set to lo/hi, it dials in less gain on the blue and red channels so you can use the clean channel for a blues tone, the blue channel as a blues / alternate clean channel, and the red channel for a low gain lead tone.
Hope that helps.
jeffp
Well-known member
sounds good......need more time! thanks!jeffp
YellowJackets points 2 and 3 pretty much nail the clean level knob and the gain trim switch.
Just remember, when you set the gain trim to clean or hi/lo, you are reducing ("trimming") the gain on said channel. So setting the gain trim to Hi\lo will make for less available gain on hi\lo.
I just wanted to add an additional observations regarding the clean level and why it is so critical if you are going to be switching back and forth between clean and drive.
You have probably noticed that the volume knob has very little effect on the overall volume of the ED when you are in the Hi/Lo mode. Yes if you set it all the way off there will be no noise, however for all intents it is a gain knob when you are in hi/lo mode. The same way the gain knob on a recto is different from the channel volume on a recto.
However when you are in clean mode, the volume knob has a very big effect on the overall volume of the amp. In clean mode it behaves the way the channel volume on a recto behaves.
So if you like to play on Hi/lo with the volume set to around 3:00, the clean level is an absolute must as the volume jump between clean and hi/lo is just too big.
Just remember, when you set the gain trim to clean or hi/lo, you are reducing ("trimming") the gain on said channel. So setting the gain trim to Hi\lo will make for less available gain on hi\lo.
I just wanted to add an additional observations regarding the clean level and why it is so critical if you are going to be switching back and forth between clean and drive.
You have probably noticed that the volume knob has very little effect on the overall volume of the ED when you are in the Hi/Lo mode. Yes if you set it all the way off there will be no noise, however for all intents it is a gain knob when you are in hi/lo mode. The same way the gain knob on a recto is different from the channel volume on a recto.
However when you are in clean mode, the volume knob has a very big effect on the overall volume of the amp. In clean mode it behaves the way the channel volume on a recto behaves.
So if you like to play on Hi/lo with the volume set to around 3:00, the clean level is an absolute must as the volume jump between clean and hi/lo is just too big.
YellowJacket
Well-known member
toneocaster said:
This amp is not a gigantic pile of toggles and dials like a Mark V but I agree, the ganged pots are an asspain. Seriously, if the amp had 3 independent EQs it would be a vast improvement. I do not disparage the genius it took to design this amp, but the design choice is frustratingly limiting. It is annoying that when trying to get one mode 'perfect' it inevitably impacts one of the other modes negatively. The 'interactive' controls are also kind of weird until one begins to figure out how they interact with one another. Compared to something like a Mark V, this amp is relatively easy to dial in, especially if you don't rely on any extreme settings. The saving grace is that I can dial in the tones I need for gigging and that is what REALLY matters!!!
The real trick is navigating the switch from bedroom tone to gig volume, but this is the same with pretty much any amp. What I appreciate most about the Electra Dyne is how adept it is at handling low and medium gain tones, especially at low volumes. The Dual Rectifier can only do one or two tones at low (bedroom) volumes since you have to set the gain so high to get a somewhat saturated tone. It is only when you open it up that the more 'rock' world becomes available in a flavour that does not resemble microwaved liver. For my purposes, the Electra Dyne is more usable as a practice amp because *I* like the bedroom tones more on it than the Dual Recto. Like I mentioned earlier, scooping out the mids is integral to getting the amp to sound 'phat' when it is almost off. In addition, scooped mids REALLY lower the perceived volume of the amp since guitar is almost all mids.
Another 'interesting' tip. The presence on the Electra Dyne is a global control. It 'unclamps' the power section which yields more tightness and aggression. With high output pickups, once can dime the presence and really hit those classic / vintage metal tones. Add mids to taste!! Just be sure to roll back the tone knob on your clean tone so you don't ice pick people's ears to death. See, THIS is where having more than one EQ would be priceless.
screamingdaisy
Well-known member
The thing I really value about the ED is that it does it's thing without a whole lot of fuss.
I can see peoples point of view when it comes to not being able to dial in channels to perfection individually... however, for myself I value that it isn't perfect. I actually kind of like the compromise since it forces me to adapt as a player. I already have a couple of amps that I can tweak in minutiae... the ED is the only one that reminds me of when I was a kid and had to work with whatever tone my amp was giving to me. It's kind of liberating.
I can see peoples point of view when it comes to not being able to dial in channels to perfection individually... however, for myself I value that it isn't perfect. I actually kind of like the compromise since it forces me to adapt as a player. I already have a couple of amps that I can tweak in minutiae... the ED is the only one that reminds me of when I was a kid and had to work with whatever tone my amp was giving to me. It's kind of liberating.
YellowJacket
Well-known member
The Electra Dyne is brilliant when you just let it do its thing.
rabies
Well-known member
YellowJacket said:
quite unlikely. substitute. JH and JDM for "The Electra Dyne". 60s and 90s ruled.
oh don't ask why....
jeffp
Well-known member
How bout it tonecaster?....any changes?...
YellowJacket
Well-known member
rabies said:
:roll:
If you like the sound of the Electra Dyne, buy one. If you like the sound of ______________ (insert famous amp builder name in here) then buy one of those.
I happen to like the Electra Dyne. It have a great clean tone and it removes everything that annoys me about Marshall amps and even most Mesa amps.
rabies
Well-known member
shared EQ is a buzzkill....
YellowJacket
Well-known member
rabies said:
It is more flexible than you think. Mesa did a great job of how they ganged the pots. That being said, I almost passed on the Electra Dyne because of this. I'm SO glad I didn't.
toneocaster
Active member
jeffp said:
I'm still working with it jeffp. I love the clean and I love what it does overdriven, I still can't make it do both at the same time??.....but I'm not giving up just yet! lol!
toneocaster
Active member
rabies said:
as Dave on Storage Wars would say: "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep"! lol!
rabies
Well-known member
Birdy said:
The Marshall Vintage Modern is basically the same design: one channel with 2 modes (LDR and HDR). It's actually a pretty decent amp but you have to crank it past noon to get the power tube saturation into the tones...
They say you lose tone with more controls. and you lose flexibility with less controls. solution?
one amp for cleans, one amp for dirties.
but nobody wants to buy and carry 100+ lbs....
I'd like my next amp to have a recto tube, i enjoyed using that with the RK1 i had for swing jazz modal stuff....
