Dynawatt 20/20....First Impressions

[congalocke]

Well....finally hooked up my rack and dang if that thing is not LOUD. I'm talkin' "Hey, I can either disturb my townhouse neighbors or turn it off!" It's not like some little practice amp where you can find a spot on the knob for a bedroom situation. I need to take this thing out somewhere so I can dial in tone and get the volume to at least 10:00!

If I would have known about this I would have switched out many moons ago. That 2:90 Simul Class weight is for the roadies and quite honestly...I do not think that the switchable power is necessary for my music or style. I even have an extra space now in my shockmount so that I can shove something else in there for pursuing a completely unique tone. O.K....maybe not so unique :lol:

I am soooo happy!

Peace
conga

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I just made the same move myself.......I traded in my 2:90 for a new 20/20 plus some extras....

I had owned the 20/20 in the past, so I knew this amp was great...but just couldn't bring myself to getting rid of it.
I already have a RK II combo so needed a light rig.

Now i have it in a space rack


Furman
TC G Force
Triaxis
20/20

 

[masque]

i've had mine for several years and love it...my buddy has a 290 and he's always been telling me that i should get rid of my 20/20 and get a 290......

well a couple of months ago I took my 20/20 down to his house. we ran his guitar into his triaxis. the left side of the triaixs went to my 20/20 and the right side of the triaxis outputs went to his 290. the 20/20 went to the left side of his stereo marshall cabinet and the 290 output went to the right side of the marshall cabinet. the signal paths were pure...no effect, compression etc....just pure tone and power.

the results were very surprising to say the least. before we did this i was convinced that i needed to get rid of my 20/20 in favor of the 290....but after the actual sound test I was convinced that the 20/20 absolutely held it's own against the 290 and in some cases was superior.

the 290 was great.....it was a little warmer and with the deep switch kicked in it was indeed "deeper". The 20/20 was was punchier and certainly more aggressive sounding to my ears. You had to kick in the "modern" switch on the 290 for it to even have a chance of having the aggressive bite of the 20/20.

the results were plain and clear to my ears. both are fantastic amps but I have actually tested them side by side as described above and neither is the be all end all over the other....knowing what i know now i would give a slight endge to the 20/20 simply for being easier to transport, less expensive overall and less expensive to retube....because the sound differences aren't enough to warrant rating one over the other in my humble opinion.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

2:90 is a great amp no doubt...and if the rack was my main rig, it would have remained in my rack over the 20/20.

Yes the 20/20 get's you to the sweet spot faster than does the 2:90. But your test only proved that at moderate volumes the 20/20 wins out.

I use to gig with both 2:90 & 20/20....and the 20/20 couldn't really keep up when playing with a full band...that is where the 2:90 showed t's muscle.

My only complaint about the 20/20 is that when it gets really loud, the amp compresses badly, at least for my tastes (this is typical of El84 amps...this is why I returned my LSS -- although I loved the tone at moderate volumes).


All that said, I will likely never go back to the 2:90, and it's only simply because of the weight...

 

[sombra]

You are so weak,come on dudes 1 ,2 jump 1,2 walk 1,2 jump
I bet you're fats !
huhauhuahuauhahahuauauauaha
just kidding

 

[JAZZGEAR]

:lol: Actually I am nearly 6'5" 300 lbs.....I'd like to believe I'm just big bone'd :wink:

 

[sombra]

How much in kilos ?

 

[JAZZGEAR]

In metric that would be

~ 2M/136K

 

[sombra]

What the hell :shock: :shock: :shock:

Dude I'm 1.95 82 kilos

 

[congalocke]

You know....the weight is only a problem cuz' I have a six space Mesa Boogie shockmount that is pretty deep (24") so it's pretty heavy as it is. I use to have two skb cases and the 2:90 was all by itself. These cases were not as deep as the new shockmount so the weight was really close to my body.

I am 6'2" and weigh in at 240lb and work at a cemetery so I'm no pencil pusher but after a life of blue collar warehouse work etc. I don't want to push it.

The young and most guy's who don't go out and play can probably handle a 2:90

My understanding is that it is rude in the Brazilian culture to ask men their age (much like our women here in the states) so I won't ask Sombra's age.... :shock: :twisted:

I don't care who you are....that was funny 8)

Peace
conga

 

[JAZZGEAR]

What the hell :shock: :shock: :shock:

Dude I'm 1.95 82 kilos

:lol: Dude, do you like wear ankle weights on windy days?...Just kidding :lol:

Anyway, yes, I also have and 8 space Mesa Shock rack that weighs almost ~ 65 + lbs (30k Kilos) with nothing in it; the 2:90 at 35 lbs (16 kilos) is just too much.

I have retired my 8 space shock rack for my future mobile studio...and am using just a 4 space SKB RACK....nice and light. 8)

 

[masque]

2:90 is a great amp no doubt...and if the rack was my main rig, it would have remained in my rack over the 20/20.

Yes the 20/20 get's you to the sweet spot faster than does the 2:90. But your test only proved that at moderate volumes the 20/20 wins out.

I use to gig with both 2:90 & 20/20....and the 20/20 couldn't really keep up when playing with a full band...that is where the 2:90 showed t's muscle.

My only complaint about the 20/20 is that when it gets really loud, the amp compresses badly, at least for my tastes (this is typical of El84 amps...this is why I returned my LSS -- although I loved the tone at moderate volumes).


All that said, I will likely never go back to the 2:90, and it's only simply because of the weight...

i would say that at times the volume during our test was loud to moderate. he and i both were in the same band for years and we played out (me with the 20/20 and him with the 290)....i never played a gig that i ever said to myself "i dont have enough volume or power"...in fact i never played a gig with the 20/20 that I even came close to running the the 20/20 at volumes above 4-5 so to speak. as I said earlier they are truly both great amps in my opinion....i'm basically saying that for my money I would support anyone wishing to buy either amp.....i love my 20/20 but if i had a chance to buy a 290 dirt cheap just to have around i would not pass on it.

 

[t0aj15]

I prefer the 50/50 over the 20/20 or the 2:90. It's loud enough to get on top of even the loudest drummer without being "to much", and at the same time with the ability to play at either 15 or 50 watts per side is as versatile as having both amps in one box. I use it mainly with a TriAxis-rack setup but recently have been using it with a Mark IV short head in a W/D/W setup and the sound is simply awesome.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I prefer the 50/50 over the 20/20 or the 2:90. It's loud enough to get on top of even the loudest drummer without being "to much", and at the same time with the ability to play at either 15 or 50 watts per side is as versatile as having both amps in one box. I use it mainly with a TriAxis-rack setup but recently have been using it with a Mark IV short head in a W/D/W setup and the sound is simply awesome.

Yes, but neither the 50:50 or 2:90 have that dynamic sound of the 20/20 -- this is one time where the Boogie marketing machine is spot on....the 20/20 amp does in fact "respond to your pick attack." I never got that feel from either the 50/50, 2:50 or the 2:90.

The 20/20 should be enough to gig just about anywhere...where I have a slight problem is with the compression nature of EL84s at loud volumes -- but that's just me. But this rig has been relegated to small venues now so
it's not an issue.

Anyway, I think it speaks volumes of what I think of the 20/20 that I did a straight up trade of my 2:90 for a 20/20 (my used - like new 2:90, for a brand new 20/20)

 

[disassembled]

This is probably what you might find in most EL84 setups from different manufacturers. Most companies run the tubes really hot to get the dynamics most players want without resorting to adding BIAS trim pots. Most of the Octal (think 6L6, EL34, KT88, etc) tube amps manufacturers put out usually run cold on purpose because i think there is a broader range of bias that the tubes can run in (IE one brand of 6L6's might draw 8 mA while another brand draws 25 mA. This has happened to me before so I am speaking from experience). By keeping the bias low(or cold) you raise the headroom a bit but you add to the time it takes to go from clean to pushed to distorted. A cold bias will prolong the life of the tubes by not pushing them to their limits. Some people like the bias cold because of the added tonal characteristics but others will say it lacks dynamics. One of the downsides to running your octal tubes hot (hot is going to be different for each individual tube set and amplifier) is you still need loud volumes to get the most out of the dynamics.

So i don't think it is just Mesa for having a gotten it right with their 20/20 because most of the other manufacturers are doing great with their class A/B EL84 powered amps(Peavey Classic 30,50,50/50, mesa dc-3, marshall 20/20, etc). I believe this is true only because most of the amps have their tubes running hot enough to give players what they want while still offering longevity on the tubes. On the contrary very few amp builders are bold enough to recommend running a 6L6 amp drawing 45 mA, even if it gives you that certain breakup you desire, because there will be failures happening too often.

So what is the point of this post? Well I own a 20/20 with a triaxis and I agree that it sounds great and that it is loud Is there anymore anyone could ask for of a power amp? Oh yeah, actually there is. It weighs less a good head of comparable power so that's just another bonus. I am also using the 20/20 with a celestion gk85 16 ohm and eminence 16 ohm 75 watt governor speakers so i bet it would give greater speaker breaker with lower wattage 8 ohm speakers but probably wouldn't have the lowend or volume that i am getting now.

BTW Has anyone tried the deep mod on their 20/20? I did it to mine but i don't remember what it sounded like before and i am too lazy to return it back to normal. It sure does sound good though so i am not complaining one bit.

Greg

 

[sombra]

My understanding is that it is rude in the Brazilian culture to ask men their age (much like our women here in the states) so I won't ask Sombra's age.... :shock: :twisted:

No it isn't,we avoid asking women's age only when they looks like above 30 years.
Even if you ask her it is not rude.
Brazilian people is extremely friendly .
Sex is life huahuahuahuhauhua :twisted:

 

[congalocke]

Sombra...

For full effect of my Razz make sure to connect the age statement with young players/non gigging players putting up with heavier power amps!

Peace Out!
conga

 

[JAZZGEAR]

So i don't think it is just Mesa for having a gotten it right with their 20/20 because most of the other manufacturers are doing great with their class A/B EL84 powered amps(Peavey Classic 30,50,50/50, mesa dc-3, marshall 20/20, etc)

Hmm....I don't completely agree with that statement. I've owned Rivera EL84 amps (didn't have the same dynamics of the 20/20), Mesa DC-3 (Nope); Subway Rocket -- both reverb and non-reverb model (Zip!); F30 (Nada).

I don't doubt there are other great El84 amps......I've just not come across one that sounded as good, loud and as light as the 20/20. One thing I am certain of, the Mesa 20/20 has no equal as far as power, db, sound quality, dynamics, et'al....not to mention form factor. :wink:

.......Oh, and the Marshall 20/20? Please! Not in the same league; been there, done that....sorry, not in Mesa's class :x

 

[disassembled]

So i don't think it is just Mesa for having a gotten it right with their 20/20 because most of the other manufacturers are doing great with their class A/B EL84 powered amps(Peavey Classic 30,50,50/50, mesa dc-3, marshall 20/20, etc)

Hmm....I don't completely agree with that statement. I've owned Rivera EL84 amps (didn't have the same dynamics of the 20/20), Mesa DC-3 (Nope); Subway Rocket -- both reverb and non-reverb model (Zip!); F30 (Nada).

I don't doubt there are other great El84 amps......I've just not come across one that sounded as good, loud and as light as the 20/20. One thing I am certain of, the Mesa 20/20 has no equal as far as power, db, sound quality, dynamics, et'al....not to mention form factor. :wink:

.......Oh, and the Marshall 20/20? Please! Not in the same league; been there, done that....sorry, not in Mesa's class :x

I guess i made my post too general. I didn't mean to say they are all equal in responsiveness, tone, etc. I was just trying to say that USUALLY amps that have EL84's are able to have better dynamics than a 6L6 or EL34 based power amp due to the variances in the 6L6 or EL34 tube current draw. I was just listing some examples of amps that either i have owned or have heard others rave about.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

Point....understood