Dual Recto Serial number in the very low 1500 range

[Fordman65]

Quick question for my now boogie brothers. I just got a 2ch dual recto for what I think is a very decent price. Black face chrome chassis obviously small logo and attached chord. It is being shipped as we speak from a gentleman on this board.

How can I be sure of the exact year of production and what revision would it be considered as long as everything is still original?

Also I know the "holy grail" of rectos are apparently those under 500 but asking prices for those have been **** near double what I paid for this one. Is there really a major tone difference between the two?
I know there are big differences between the 2 and 3 channel and supposedly next to the pre 500 you want one with an attached cord and small face, but I have no idea why, or even if that is accurate.
I am sure this has been talked about to death but fill me in.

 

[danvortex]

i think this is the one i had an eye on but i wanted to know the serial # and the seller told me he could read it, it was removed ????
i know this amp was made in october 1992 but couldn't get the board rev so i didn't bid. Chances are you got an F or G. I found #29 and bought it 2 days ago. so i'm glad i did not bid on this one

 

[Fordman65]

Nope this isn't the one. I know the one you are talking about it was on ebay and I was going to bid but there were too many issues. No serial number and the chord was a detachable. I know old recto's had attached chords. Plus that one went surprisingly high quite a bit more than I paid for mine, and mine doesn't have any issues like that.

 

[Kung-Fool]

Rev F....late 92'/93'.

 

[Fordman65]

Rev F....late 92'/93'.

Thanks dude! Much appreciated.

Can anyone shed light on the whole small logo Vs current one, and attached chord vs detached?

 

[BMarchant]

"Is there really a major tone difference between the two? "

Oh boy, Everyone duck!!! Here we go again. We aint in Kansas anymore TOTO!


There are two camps. Those that swear they sound better, and those that swear guys are just trying to jack up the resale price. I've heard both sound good, and both sound like crap. My 3 channel Dual Recto is the best sounding Recto I've personally ever heard. It didn't come that way. I tweeked it to sound good by matching the correct tubes to the amp. My Stiletto sounded ok until I tweeked it. If you know what your doing you can make it sound good. Most of your sound is in your hands anyway. Mesa doesn't make crap.

Guys say they HATE certain speakers, and others swear by them. EXACT SAME THING. Its all about opinion.

Bmarchant

 

[R_ADKINS80]

"Is there really a major tone difference between the two? "

Oh boy, Everyone duck!!! Here we go again. We aint in Kansas anymore TOTO!


There are two camps. Those that swear they sound better, and those that swear guys are just trying to jack up the resale price. I've heard both sound good, and both sound like crap. My 3 channel Dual Recto is the best sounding Recto I've personally ever heard. It didn't come that way. I tweeked it to sound good by matching the correct tubes to the amp. My Stiletto sounded ok until I tweeked it. If you know what your doing you can make it sound good. Most of your sound is in your hands anyway. Mesa doesn't make crap.

Guys say they HATE certain speakers, and others swear by them. EXACT SAME THING. Its all about opinion.

Bmarchant

Best post ever......I bought my triple new in the box without even playing one. The only Mesa I ever played was my buddy's triple a handfull of times before hand. He also advised me that he had changed all the tubes in his and that a brand new one would sound nothing like it. As he stated i had Poo right out of the box. A couple hundred dollars in tubes later and i Had God sitting on top of my cabinet. Experiment with tubes and pedals and you can get that beast to sound like whatever you want and be happy with it. Rock on!

 

[danvortex]

i respect your opinion guys but i don't agree
i have 5 rectos in my rehearsal room right now and all of my bandmates will agree that the older the better... I compared with the same tubes, guitars, cabs etc... A/B tested them all.
#25 rev c
#29 rev c
# 406 rev d
# 11950 rev g
and a 3 channel dual wich i don't remember the serial #

25 and 29 sound almost exactly the same when i use the same tubes

the older the better but to us, as long as you have a 2 channels it is good, only the 3 channels i would not recommand.

 

[Fordman65]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Much appreciated. I now have it and it sounds pretty good. The clean is kinda but I have a decent blues tone and the modern metal sound is ok right now.

I am currently running stock mesa EL34's so that partly explains the crappy clean and I think I need to experiment with some tubes as you have suggested. I currently have everything except the volume of course set at noon. It's a little spikey sounding so I need to adjust things, but maybe you guys can give me some of your settings for me to try out??

I have found that the knobs are very sensitive and the EQ is very active.

 

[danvortex]

Do you use an OD in front ? If not this is the easiest way to dramatically improve your tone with a DR.

A trick i have learned, activate the loop even if you don't put nothing in it, put your channel's volume at noon and control the overall volume of the amp with the loop's volume at the front of the amp wich becomes the amp's master volume when the loop is activated. I don't know why but it adds a little mojo to run it this way...

 

[Fordman65]

Very cool man thanks! I will give that a try tomorrow. I am currently using a Xotic RC booster as my clean boost, and it seems to work well. Again I need to tweak more and I will try the fx loop trick, I currently have that off.

As far as speakers go I am currently running through a Bogner ubercab and a avatar 2x12 with Hellatone 60's. Part of the problem might be the different speakers in the Ubercab. Maybe an all V30 cab would be better??

 

[danvortex]

i have tried the ubercab, to me the mesa recto is definitely better, i friend of mine has both cabs and he also like the recto better, even with the uberschall head...

another thing i have tried is a clean boost and i didn't like it as much as an OD in front of the amp, it doesn't do the trick for me.

Try an OD, i bet you will like it. But you need to know one important thing, gain on the OD has to be set to 0, on the OD it is the tone and level that you have to dial pretty high, don't use any of the gain on the pedal, it will make the amp muddy. dial the gain lower on the amp, put it beteween noon and 13h to start. The od will add crunch, bite, attack and punch, it is not meant to add distortion.

these are only my opinions, you have to try to make yours, but my opinions are based on A/B tests i have made and my bandmates also have the same opinions

 

[danvortex]

another thing, with an OD you'll need a noïse gate, otherwise the amp won't be playable, you'll get too much feed back.

 

[BMarchant]

Ok guys........
I want you to think about this before you flip out at me.

True story, I had my first Marshall, a 1971 super lead, modified by Paul Rivera back in the early 1980s. I was expecting the same sound that George Lynch, Steve Lukither, and the other guys who used his mods got , but didn't tell anyone how they got it.

I get the amp, start playing and it sounded like crap. NOTHING like any of those players. After making a fool of myself calling Paul up and bitching, I got the best lesson I ever got. I listened to what he said about how an amp works and how the your actual tone comes from your hands. If I can't make it sound good, then just use a buffer pre-amp (OD pedal) then.

So I sat down and thought about it. Gee, if I have the same amp, guitar, pickups, what is different. Oh ya, ME!!!! Maybe this guy Paul is right. That was my lesson on how to play. The biggest sound change is in your hands. I spent weeks learning how to play and make it sound good with just the guitar and amp.

Now, here we go. You spend $2000.00 for an amp, and in order to make it sound good you need to use a $100.00 OD pedal. Also, the guys in the band complain they cant hear your guitar or tell exactly what your playing.

Ever think that maybe its not the amp that you just spent all that money for. Its a Mesa Boogie for christ sakes.......... If it doesn't sound good, I would look at, tubes, speakers, pickups, and if none of that works, maybe its your playing technique. Yes, I said maybe its how you are playing.

Take any high gain scooped mid, wont stop playing in the music store until someone notices me hack and put him on an amp that you actually have to have some idea of how to play and they will sound like crap. So the next thing they do is make it sound like a Crate amp by adding an OD pedal on it. Now go sit in a band and no one can hear what they are playing. GOD I WONDER WHY!!!

Let the yelling begin.......... Just so you guys understand, I'm not bashing you, I'm trying to get you to think a little about this. Maybe its time to learn how to play the amp as well as just the notes on the guitar. I got the lesson from Paul Rivera, its a lot less embarrassing learning it from someone you dont know.

Bmarchant

 

[Fordman65]

Ok guys........
I want you to think about this before you flip out at me.

True story, I had my first Marshall, a 1971 super lead, modified by Paul Rivera back in the early 1980s. I was expecting the same sound that George Lynch, Steve Lukither, and the other guys who used his mods got , but didn't tell anyone how they got it.

I get the amp, start playing and it sounded like crap. NOTHING like any of those players. After making a fool of myself calling Paul up and bitching, I got the best lesson I ever got. I listened to what he said about how an amp works and how the your actual tone comes from your hands. If I can't make it sound good, then just use a buffer pre-amp (OD pedal) then.

So I sat down and thought about it. Gee, if I have the same amp, guitar, pickups, what is different. Oh ya, ME!!!! Maybe this guy Paul is right. That was my lesson on how to play. The biggest sound change is in your hands. I spent weeks learning how to play and make it sound good with just the guitar and amp.

Now, here we go. You spend $2000.00 for an amp, and in order to make it sound good you need to use a $100.00 OD pedal. Also, the guys in the band complain they cant hear your guitar or tell exactly what your playing.

Ever think that maybe its not the amp that you just spent all that money for. Its a Mesa Boogie for christ sakes.......... If it doesn't sound good, I would look at, tubes, speakers, pickups, and if none of that works, maybe its your playing technique. Yes, I said maybe its how you are playing.

Take any high gain scooped mid, wont stop playing in the music store until someone notices me hack and put him on an amp that you actually have to have some idea of how to play and they will sound like crap. So the next thing they do is make it sound like a Crate amp by adding an OD pedal on it. Now go sit in a band and no one can hear what they are playing. GOD I WONDER WHY!!!

Let the yelling begin.......... Just so you guys understand, I'm not bashing you, I'm trying to get you to think a little about this. Maybe its time to learn how to play the amp as well as just the notes on the guitar. I got the lesson from Paul Rivera, its a lot less embarrassing learning it from someone you dont know.

Bmarchant

While I appreciate the time and effort you put into telling us your story I am not sure how this pertains to me? First I never asked for a lecture which is obviously what you are trying to do, second sure I say some of the sounds are not completely to my liking yet, but I also say I need to tweak more. I am perfectly happy with it, I just asked for tube and setting suggestions thats it. I know a lot of guys use these amps so I figure why not try what they are doing and tweak from there to get "my sound"?

I know you mean no harm but man you are really coming off as arrogant. BTW I spent a ton less than 2k, and if anything I know how to "play my amp" better than I play guitar. I certainly am not a great player but I do know I have a very good ear for tone.

Anyone else with some real insight want to jump in?

 

[danvortex]

BMarchant i know what you are trying to say and i have to admit that i agree with you. BUT there are certain types of tones that you cannot achieve without an OD in front. Especially the very mean an crunchy rythm metal tones. You have to play the wright way but it is impossible to hit the amp as hard as you need to to achieve that kind of tone only with a good guitar and your hands, the amp has to be hit much harder.

Can you explain why so many great players use an OD than ??? Most people don't know but most of the great bands and players use an OD in front.
Here is a short list of various artists from different kind of music that i know use an OD:

joe Satriani
Zack Wyld
Steeve Vai
Marc Tremonti
Metallica
Behemoth
Kataklysm
Killswitch
Despised Icon
etc...

I also know from direct witnesses that many of the albums i like the production are recorded with an OD in front of a tube amp. For exemple, for most of the good albums Andy Sneap has produced, he reamped the guitars with an OD in front of a tube amp, most of the time a 5150 and a tube screamer.

Even live, most of the big metal bands use an OD, and again i know because i've seen it myself or heard from someone who played or worked on a show with those bands. For one of the last Behemoth us Tour
Nergal played a Bogner Uberschall with an OD in front, ok this is death metal but even the metal bands from the 80s did that.

I have an article in Guitar player in wich Kirk hammets says that his secret weapon is his tube screamer ON at all times in front of his Mesa Boogie amps...

 

[siggy14]

An OD in front doesnt make your amp sound like solid state, if used right it actually makes the amp sound better by making the preamp tubes work harder, so technically the OD pedal is not creating distortion, but more of forcing a tube amp to create more.

Your story was kind of funny because even George Lynch has always used a pedal. But you are right about one thing, tone is in your hands, but you also need the amp to sound good as well as quality guitar cab and calbes and guitar.

Yes a great player can sound good on a solid state amp, but he will not sound great like he would on a good tube amp. A crappy player will never sound great on a great amp, but he could sound good enough.

Also always remember, tone is very subjective, what you consider good tone does not always equal what everone else considers good tone. However there is usually is certain tones that a majority of the people like and tone that only a minority like.

Ok guys........
I want you to think about this before you flip out at me.

True story, I had my first Marshall, a 1971 super lead, modified by Paul Rivera back in the early 1980s. I was expecting the same sound that George Lynch, Steve Lukither, and the other guys who used his mods got , but didn't tell anyone how they got it.

I get the amp, start playing and it sounded like crap. NOTHING like any of those players. After making a fool of myself calling Paul up and bitching, I got the best lesson I ever got. I listened to what he said about how an amp works and how the your actual tone comes from your hands. If I can't make it sound good, then just use a buffer pre-amp (OD pedal) then.

So I sat down and thought about it. Gee, if I have the same amp, guitar, pickups, what is different. Oh ya, ME!!!! Maybe this guy Paul is right. That was my lesson on how to play. The biggest sound change is in your hands. I spent weeks learning how to play and make it sound good with just the guitar and amp.

Now, here we go. You spend $2000.00 for an amp, and in order to make it sound good you need to use a $100.00 OD pedal. Also, the guys in the band complain they cant hear your guitar or tell exactly what your playing.

Ever think that maybe its not the amp that you just spent all that money for. Its a Mesa Boogie for christ sakes.......... If it doesn't sound good, I would look at, tubes, speakers, pickups, and if none of that works, maybe its your playing technique. Yes, I said maybe its how you are playing.

Take any high gain scooped mid, wont stop playing in the music store until someone notices me hack and put him on an amp that you actually have to have some idea of how to play and they will sound like crap. So the next thing they do is make it sound like a Crate amp by adding an OD pedal on it. Now go sit in a band and no one can hear what they are playing. GOD I WONDER WHY!!!

Let the yelling begin.......... Just so you guys understand, I'm not bashing you, I'm trying to get you to think a little about this. Maybe its time to learn how to play the amp as well as just the notes on the guitar. I got the lesson from Paul Rivera, its a lot less embarrassing learning it from someone you dont know.

Bmarchant

 

[danvortex]

siggy 14 has a good point

an OD is not meant to has distortion, in fact to get a good result with a DR you need to put the OD's gain at its minimum and the two other controls pretty high, espacially the level knob

 

[BMarchant]

Guys, didnt mean to sound arragant. Its hard to put the tone of your voice in email. Sorry about that. Please, it wasn't intended to be rude at all. In fact, that story is embarrassing as hell to me. I was talking to Paul a few months ago, and we were laughing about it.

Also, Fordman65, that wasnt directed at you, and I wasn't trying to insult you in any way or was I trying to give a lecture to you. Sorry it sounded that way. It was in response to the " Hey have you tried an OD pedal" ........

It does pertain to you if your listening to more of the same advise about needing to use OD pedals in front of your great sounding Dual Rect. I'm asking all of you to just think a little. Thats it. I told you my story so you realize others have done the exact same thing that people are doing here. I learned from my lesson. Yes, tone is opinion. If you like listening to the 15 year old playing the crate with the Heavy Metal pedal, then I have nothing to say. If you like actual players who have a good recorded tone, from Van Halen to Tremonti, then maybe think about this.

You guys read about what these guitar players use (get paid to say they use) and you take it as law. Neal Schon got caught taking his marshalls guts out and putting them in Peavey heads back when Journey was endorsing Peavey. George Lynch had dummy amps on stage with batteries to power the red lights during the Under lock and key tour. His rack that was out of sight had a few old marshalls in it. So ya, he might have used a buffer pre amp to push the front end. I actually saw it up close and asked his guitar tech. You really think he was taking his Dual Recto and using a OD pedal!

Old marshalls had 3 preamp tubes. Guys did many things to get more gain. Super distortion pickups, buffer pre-amps to push the front end. Use 30 watt speakers to get them to break up. Richy Blackmore actually used a razor blade to cut the cones on his speakers to get more gain.

Modern amps have 5 and sometimes 6 preamp tubes. You have so much gain that your sound gets lost. You don't need a OD pedal to push the front end to get it to distort the input stage, its distorting already. If your using a Fender Vibrolux, then by all means go ahead. Thats why Stevie Ray did it. Not a Dual Recto with high output pickups.

Just think about what I'm saying........ It can help your tone. No matter what kind of sound you like.


Bmarchant

 

[Fordman65]

Ya man I get what you are saying, thanks for clarifying.

I am proud to say I spent a good hour with her today, wish I could have spent more but I have finally dialed in my sound.

I have a great bluesy tone on the orange channel using my strat, and I now have a great modern metal sound. No OD needed! I can't crank her up very loud, so I am using my clean boost to add a little balls and I must say holy fricken crap, I love the tone I am getting from this beast. Funny part is initially I had my 2x12 sitting on the floor next to my 4x12 both running into the head. The tone was kinda meh for whatever reason but I decided to throw the 2x12 on top of the 4x12 and it really opened the sound up a lot. Don't know why, don't care why all I know is the amp sounds freakin phenomenal now.

Thanks for the tip about the FX loop as well, I think it helps that I am now using that as a master volume to help control things, the best part of all this is with me using a clean boost there is no noise gate needed. The amp is **** near dead quite and thats with the gain a noon, so I am very pleased.

The only problem I now have is I don't have a dedicated clean, yes I can roll the guitar volume down but usually I like having a dedicated clean channel. I am thinking a JC-120 might be in my future to run next to my recto.

Thanks for all the help guys. I am officially one happy mesa owner!