(Dual Rectifier) Rectifier Select Switch Choice

[ibanezgtr]

I have found my Dual Rectifier 2 ch has been lacking in power and darkness compared to what I hear of the Road King. I think it might be that I have had my rectifier select switch on tube(normal), instead of Silicon Diode. Which do you guys prefer for rectifier select and why? Thanks

 

[clutch71]

What kind of tubes are you running and where is your gain set in relationship to the volume? I ask because you mentioned "power and darkness."

When I first got my 2 channel I was running the gain real high (dimed) to get to a point of saturation I was normally getting at say 1 or 2 o'clock on the gain and about 11 oclock on the master. Turns out I had a bad grid resistor. $66 fix.

I'll be honest I really didn't notice a big difference from Silicone diode to Tube Rectification until I started running a TS808 out front. With the TS I now go back and forth between SD/TR depending on what I'm playing. I've notice I use the TR in vintage more than in Modern.

I also run GTEL34LS and GT 12AX7C preamp.

 

[ibanezgtr]

I am running all Mesa tubes. I use EL34's for a tighter sound. My gain is about at 2 oclock, volume at 10 oclock. I don't think there is anything wrong with the head, it just sounds like there is something missing that I want when listening to the Road King II, very subtle. But I have so much gear already and don't really want to get a Road king. Does the Road king have a different voicing tone? I guess the question is, can you match the heavy distortion tone on a Road King II with a 2 channel Dual Rectifier? I don't really need all the options that the Road King has, since I run the Triaxis/290 too. Just need a sick dark crunch tone and one that can be used for some solos too. Thanks CLUTCH

 

[ibanezgtr]

So... Only 2 people use a Dual Rectifier these days?

 

[Undeadpaladin]

I run a DR, the 3 channel version. I mostly stick with Tube Rect's on bold, maybe spongy for more vintage type sound. Not sure what you mean by "darkness" in your sound, maybe the type of pickups could effect this more.

Personally i'm not a fan of the SD, i like the added thump a bit, but it loses the compression and open sound of the tube recto. I'm considering trying a pair of GZ34's from eurotube, they said you get the tube recto sound with more tightness like the SD selection.

You might also considering changing the preamp, or even power tubes for a different sound. I'v had mine for a few years now and just dialing in on the tones i like, it's a very tough amp to get right imho.

Edit : What cab are you using with the Recto? The Road King you played through could have been something a bit different, course if you played the road king on your setup then this is a none issue.

 

[clutch71]

In the RK's I've played I always thought they sound similar to the older 2 ch's. The progressive linkage does add subtle changes to the tone, but like you I couldn't justify the the expense or the future expense of a retube yikes! I only run rectifer cabs so no use for the cab selection. I have a delay that I run in the loop (sometimes) so no real use for two loops.

While the RK is going to sound a little different because of board changes, multiple channels, and transformers, sounds like your in the same boat I was. I'd say talk to some folks, try some different tubes and go from their. My rationale with that is you can always use spare tubes. Heck you may even find some you like and swap 'em out at will. I'm looking for a 6L6 quad now.

Not trying to talk you out of anything. Just some thoughts.

 

[jab]

I've talked to the Mesa customer service reps at the factory and they will tell you the Rectifier and Roadkings are very similar, but not exactly the same voicing so you should hear a subtle difference. I found for whatever reason I preferred the DR over the Roadster because it didn't feel like the Roadster had the same balls as the DR. I thought there was something wrong with the Roadster when I tried it but the sales guy said no. Then I tried the DR next to the Roadking and I still liked the balls on the DR. Wish the DR had the clean channels of the others but I guess you can't have it all.

 

[ibanezgtr]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I guess balls would be what I mean by darkness and power. I was just curious about the Silicon Diode switch because I have only used the Tube rectifier select. The only difference I could hear was the increase in volume when switching to the silicon diode.

I like the cleans on the 2 channel because of the vintage warm, kind of dirty tone. I mix it with a crystal clean from the Triaxis into another cab, best of both worlds.

 

[Undeadpaladin]

What kind of guitar are you using, and what pickups in it? If you want more "balls" you might wanna look at the your pickups etc.

 

[LynchLicks]

On my early pre 500 DR's I use an overdrive (tube screamer) in front and run them as follows according to what type of power amp tubes I use....

6L6's: Rectifier: Vacuum Tube
Power: Spongy

EL34's: Rectifier: Silicon Diodes
Power: Spongy

 

[danvortex]

you should try use less gain and more channel master volume (with loop on to use the return as master volume for the all amp)

gain = 12 o'clock and master = 12 o'clock. You'll see a difference, thighter and more compressed this way.

and try an OD in front, i've said that many times on this board, this is by far the best improvement you can get with a DR. OD settings
gain =0
tone 70 %
level 70 %

 

[ibanezgtr]

I get plenty of power and sound from my Ibanez w/ Dimarzio 7 string pickups and my Les Paul 7 string. I am just wondering what rectifier selection everyone uses and why. Also the difference in voicing with the Road King II compared to the 2 ch Dual Rectifier. Thanks

for DANVORTEX is that what you are using for your "Chaos" recording on your page? Sounds great!! If you could describe your settings, switch, variac etc.. for that recording or others on that page. Also what is the purpose for your overdrive pedal if you have the gain at 0? I think there is plenty gain with my rectifier, should I try an overdrive pedal still? I have a $400 BK Butler Tube Driver just sitting in the box, what do you use? Thanks

 

[clutch71]

I've found the OD out front to server two purposes.

1) It helps a DR at low volume. I know some people don't feel they sound good quiet nor should they be played that way. That said, it's all worth the sacrifice when I get to crank it.

2) A good OD (I'm not familiar with the BK Butler Tube Driver) just enhances the natural tube sound. I use a TS808 and set everything on it at noon. It seems to "tighten" everything up and seems to enhance my EQ settings on the DR.

There are purist that say, why push a DR? It has enough gain already. I don't feel a good OD works like a traditional "distortion" pedal like say a Boss Metal Zone. With pedals labled distortion I've always found that they sound better on the clean channel as opposed to the lead. I haven't found that to be the case with a DR. The TS808 doesn't seem to do much on the clean channel but dirty the tone slightly. On a high gain setting it's more transparent but seems to make the tone richer, warmer, and more compressed.

I can get real good old Metallica tones to newer Tool tones with it. It really helped shape my tone and as far as I'm concerned, it's the best purchase I've made to compliment my DR.

 

[danvortex]

The purpose of an OD is NOT to add distortion. It's purpose is to hit the input of your amp harder and doing so changes the way the preamp react and sounds. If you play metal you will sound much better by using less gain on the amp and a stonger signal at the input that will saturate your preamp right at the start. The settings i described give tightness, a lot of attack and will also give you a more agressive tone. Because youy hit hard the front of the amp, it will also compress much more nicely. On the track Chaos will bring a new world it is my mesa R11750 with an OD in front. it is IMPOSSIBLE to obtain that kind of tone in the studio with a DR without an OD in front. It is one of the best thing you can do ti take your tone to the next level and is one of the best "secrets" kepts by professionals... I have already talked about it many times on this board, bands i know use or have used DRS in the past and did that (Metallica, Creed, Malevolent Creation, testament, etc...) I have work with many good Metal producers in Canada and all of them overdrived theirs amps in the studio and live. Andy sneaps who did Arch Enemy, As i Lay dying, Nevermore, etc.. Does the same thing... I even have an interview with kirk hammet who says that his secret weapon is is tubescreamer wich is ON full time in front of his amp. When i starded using an OD live with my Band, this is when people started complimenting my live tone... i'm not here to convince anyone, try it by yourself. People beleive the purpose of an OD is to add distortion, it can but it is not what it is made for, for that you should buy a distortion pedal

 

[danvortex]

i forgot to mention, with an OD you will also need a Boss NS2 noïse Gate, otherwise you'll get too much feedback.

The best/cheapest OD i have found to work with a DR is MXR Zack Wild signature OD. The cheapest and best soundind for metal (100$). We compared it to 6 or 7 other pedals, some of them very expensive and none of them could compare to the MXR. Even a 450$ original 1982 tube screamer did not do the job so well for a metal tone. The only one i found was close was the maxon professional OD wich i beleive to be close to 300$

 

[danvortex]

And the worst ODs i know of are the Boss overdrive and superverdrive.

 

[ibanezgtr]

I tried putting my BK Butler tube driver in front of the DR. It is a tube overdrive that Eric Johnson, David Gilmour and others use. It may not be the pedal for the job, it sounded pretty much the same when activated and kind of processed or muddy. Sounded better when I stomped it off. Did you use the MXR for the recording and for your main gigging overdrive? Also if the overdrive gain isn't turned up much on the pedal, would you still need a noise gate?

 

[danvortex]

Yes i use the MXR live and in the studio

even with the gain set to 0 you will need a noïse gate because the tone and level are set very high, the pedal will hit the front of your amp so hard that it will be out of control without a gate. when the OD is set perfectly, just taking the hand off the guitar's neck will create extreme feedback. It is an extreme setting, you definitly need a noïse gate (not a noïse suppressor, it won't do as good). If using an OD you don't need a noïse gate than look at your settings because your input signal is not strong enough to create that metal tone you are looking for.

 

[danvortex]

turning the gain up to high on the amp or setting the OD's gain over 0 will make the amp muddy, you will lose tightness and that beautifull heavy crunch will become to distorted.

 

[MetalMatt]

Maybe the RKII you played had more hours on the tubes? hence the darker sound? ...I don't know...

On my RKII, I prefer silicon diodes for my rhythm and dirty clean channels. The Diodes have a tighter, more aggressive feel to them. The rectifier tubes have a open, smoother feel to them, so they fit my solo and pure clean channels. To be honest I'm always switching between the two because they both have characteristics that I love.