Dual Caliber lead channel?

[Meson Boogie]

I'm somewhat confused as to what the dual caliber lead channels supposedly sound like. According to this mesa cataloge (http://www.grailtone.com/images/catalogs/catalog-1995-dcseries.jpg) it has 'a high gain lead channel from the mighty rectifier', yet just about every other source tells me the dual calibers were released before the rectifier. Is this a case of the dc changing circuitry after the rectifier came out? :?

 

[fdesalvo]

It's got the fat low end of the Rectos, but has the tightness and smoothness of the MKIV. It's got about 90% of the gain on tap that the MKIV has, but in my mind, it seems gainier, more aggressive. I owned DC3/10 heads, FWIW.

Oh, and if you look at the DC-10 head, it's sitting on top of a Recto 4x12.

 

[plumptone]

That's very interesting. I have a DC-3, and had no idea it was supposed to have the recto voicing. That's not the way I'd describe it at all, although I never run it with the gain dimed. Sounds more Mark-ish to me, although I do agree it's got a great low end thump if run through 4 12s. I love the DC-3, and the more I play it, the more I dig what it is: a highly portable, extremely versatile little tone-monster. The clean channel has a great "chime" to it too. Thanks for posting that.

 

[fdesalvo]

^ I think the DC3 is the most toneful of them all.

 

[LEVEL4]

I recently bought a mint-condition, used DC-3 online as a first Mesa purchase. It's a surprisingly good-sounding amp. I was fully planning on getting a Mark IV to replace it, but now, I'm not sure I need one. To me, the DC-3 doesn't sound anything like a Recto. It's more similar to a Mark-series, IMO as well. And, I OFTEN run it with the gain, treble, and presence dimed—if I don't, recordings turn out muddy sounding.

To give you an idea how much it DOESN'T sound like a Recto, I'm planning on getting a Recto to contrast with the DC-3/Mark IV. I really like the way Rectos sound for nu-metal, and I can't get that sound from my DC-3 or the Mark IVs I've tried. To me, a Recto sounds like a Framus Cobra, but at half the price.

The DC-3's leads are sweet, dark, mellow, but still piercing. LOTS of tone. And very responsive to different guitars. I guess that's how a good amp is supposed to sound on the lead channel. All I know is, when I plug my Roland Space Echo into it, I can't stop playing it. It also sounds great dry.

I'm planning to bring my DC-3 to the Mesa store to A/B it with a new Mark IV, to really see what's what. I also got the impression that the Mark IVs seem to have about 10% more gain than my DC-3. And, I'm not sure, but I also think the DC's gain is somehow "more aggressive" than a Mark IV's, even though it seems to have less of it. More "throaty," if that makes any sense. I dunno. Sure sounds good. Not like a Recto, though.

 

[edward]

Just a side note for clarity, FWIW, we have to remember to note the differences of the DC3 to its larger brethren: EL84s vs 6L6s; V30 vs. MC90; small combo cab vs widebody (same dimensions as the MKIV widebody combo). These are significant differences that make the DC3 almost a different "series" than the 5 and 10.

Edward

 

[Meson Boogie]

So essentially comparing it to the rectifier was something mesa just chucked in the catalog for good measure, since it can't possibly have been designed using the recto as a referance, and in the esteemed opinion of the boogie boarders it doesn't sound much like it either?

 

[edward]

I don't know enough about boogie guts to tell you whether it is a true forerunner. But Boogie is pretty consistent about this one thing: design through evolution.

Which is to say that regardless of which came first in nomenclature (which of course is the one thing we can nail down), the given "design," as it were, existed in the DC5, and "probably" enough of said design went into the next incarnation of amps, the Rectifier. Whether the Marketing guys spun the facts to their advantage is not unheard of. Especially given the near-instant success of the Rectifiers over the comparatively insignificant (in sales) DC series. So how's this for a direct answer to your last question: definitely a maybe

Edward

 

[mtnb1kr]

With the comments about the el84 vs. 6L6 which I agree. Would a set of yellow jackets or the groove tube adapters make the 5 or 10 like the DC-3? Or is the circuitry different enough that they would never be the same. I have the DC-5 used to have the DC-3 which I loved but the el84 didn't have enough bottom. I miss some of the DC-3 tones but can't afford both amps. Would the converters help the 5 get some of the 3 tones?

 

[tetsubin]

The Rectifiers were introduced in 1991 or 1992 as far as I can remember - the DCs probably around the same time, not earlier I think. The Dual Rectifier got patented in 1991 (See http://mesaboogie.com/catalog/Acrobats-AUG07/Pinnovations-p10-11.pdf)

Unfortunately Mesa/Boogie treats the DC series like a black sheep. There's almost no info to be found on their website.

PS. (Edit): Oh, here it says, the DCs were introduced in 1990 (http://mesaboogie.com/catalog/Acrobats-AUG07/History-p4-9.pdf)

 

[fdesalvo]

I can't stop lrom weighing in. IMHO, these are my favorite Boogies. The cleans are very powerful- just as huge as any Twin Reverb.

I can see why the lead tones are compared to the Rectos becasue they pack a HUGE agressive punch. What separates them from the Recots and makes them more Mark-like is the fact that there are beautiful and liquidy lead tones here, as well.

Additionally, these amps are very easy to dial in. I should have a DC-10 head soon and I iwll not make the mistake of letting this one go. I severely regret selling off my DC3/10 heads...

 

[LEVEL4]

I can't stop lrom weighing in. IMHO, these are my favorite Boogies . . . Additionally, these amps are very easy to dial in. I should have a DC-10 head soon and I iwll not make the mistake of letting this one go. I severely regret selling off my DC3/10 heads . . .

Yes, I can't resist another comment as well. Again, I was very surprised how good this little DC-3 head sounds. Do you have any comment on the differences, tone-wise, there was between the EL-84 DC-3 and the 6L6 DC-10, as best as you can remember? I'm especially interested in the character of their lead channels and their respective amounts of gain. To me, the DC-3's leads are dark and mid-ey (in a good way), but piercing with ample presence if you need it.

On the other hand, for rhythm work, the DC-3 can be a bit shy on treble and presence, IMO. Once turned up, though, the amp really screams. Also, any comparison of the DC-series to the Mark series would be welcomed, even though that may be a bit off-topic here. I was totally planning to buy a Mark IV short head before they're all gone, but, again, with the DC-3, I'm not so sure I even need a Mark IV now.

Congrats on your new DC-10! Was that the one I was eyeing on Ebay?

 

[fdesalvo]

Do you have any comment on the differences, tone-wise, there was between the EL-84 DC-3 and the 6L6 DC-10, as best as you can remember? I'm especially interested in the character of their lead channels and their respective amounts of gain. To me, the DC-3's leads are dark and mid-ey (in a good way), but piercing with ample presence if you need it.

On the other hand, for rhythm work, the DC-3 can be a bit shy on treble and presence, IMO. Once turned up, though, the amp really screams. Also, any comparison of the DC-series to the Mark series would be welcomed, even though that may be a bit off-topic here. I was totally planning to buy a Mark IV short head before they're all gone, but, again, with the DC-3, I'm not so sure I even need a Mark IV now.

Congrats on your new DC-10! Was that the one I was eyeing on Ebay?

When I had the DC3, I never was able to crank it up to the point where the power tubes would distort in a bad way. I was runnign it through a 2x12 recto cab (closed back). I really think that EL84s are among my favorite power tubes, but in order to get the clean headroom I now need, it's just not possible to find a 100W 6BQ5 amp!

With the DC3, I found that the EL84s added a sparkle to the top end that I loved- very chimey and 3-dimensional harmonic tones both distorted and clean. It didn't pack the big 6L6 bottom end on the clean side, but I never really missed it at time.

When comparing it to a friends MKIV on the halfback 4x12, everyone in the room thought the DC3 was jaw-dropping. It is so much bigger sounding than the MKIV was that night. The DC3 packs a huge, fat, and agressive punch when mixed with the right cabinet. And that's what makes or breaks the DC series- the choice of cabs. The best tones I've heard out of them are with big and efficient speakers like EVs. I hated my DC3 through the Recto 2x12- and I hated my friend's DC5 combo. But again, 4x12= wow!

I haven't had the opportunity to play the DC10 through any 4x12 other than a 1960a- which could not handle the lead channel. The stock speakers would become reduced to a flabby mess within no time.

Additionally, the mid scoop inherent in these speakers didn't work well with this amp. The leads had a hard time cutting through. By the time you tweaked the eq to compensate for the speakers, the tone was very ugly and flat, IMHO. Cleans were gorgeous through the 1960 though.

Gain-wise, I never noticed a difference between the two that wasn't related to the speakers (if this makes sense).

I haven't won the DC10 on ebay yet, but I'm going for broke to say the least. With any luck I'll win it tomorrow sometime. Then I can move on with my pathetic life, haha.

 

[LEVEL4]

Thanks for that detailed review. Just got my Ebay-bought, Single-Recto Solo 50 via USPS today! It's EXACTLY what I was looking for tone-wise to contrast with the DC-3. I think the Recto's fat, thumping, Framus Cobra-like sound is the perfect complement to my DC-3's dark, soulful leads. But, I still can't resist the thought of owning a rack-mount, short-head Mark IV, though. Guess I'll have to take my DC-3 to the Mesa store to A/B it with a new Mark IV to really make up my mind.

 

[Ken j]

... Especially given the near-instant success of the Rectifiers over the comparatively insignificant (in sales) DC series. So how's this for a direct answer to your last question: definitely a maybe

Edward

I have been told on two separate occassions (by phone) talking with the factory that the DC-5 had the highest sales numbers of any amp Mesa ever sold. That last call was about 4 years ago. Considering that many of their amps were in produdtion for a longer period of time that is saying something.

I have had the occasion to compare the DC-5 with both a Rectoverb II and a F-50 and will say that to my ears that the lead channel is a bit grainier or grittier so to speak. Not better or worse just a little different. I would still take a DC-5 over a F-50 and would still have mine if I didn't need to downsize.

 

[edward]

... Especially given the near-instant success of the Rectifiers over the comparatively insignificant (in sales) DC series. So how's this for a direct answer to your last question: definitely a maybe

Edward

I have been told on two separate occassions (by phone) talking with the factory that the DC-5 had the highest sales numbers of any amp Mesa ever sold. That last call was about 4 years ago. Considering that many of their amps were in produdtion for a longer period of time that is saying something.

I have had the occasion to compare the DC-5 with both a Rectoverb II and a F-50 and will say that to my ears that the lead channel is a bit grainier or grittier so to speak. Not better or worse just a little different. I would still take a DC-5 over a F-50 and would still have mine if I didn't need to downsize.

Hmmm interesting, Ken. So these "sales numbers" are from Mesa themselves?? If so, and that is indeed accurate on their part, then evey DC owner is so enamored with theirs that they rarely find themselves selling them 2nd hand. It also makes me wonder why so many of the older "popular" Boogs, most notably the MKIV and Rectos, are so often on the auction block if indeed the DC5 enjoyed the highest sales numbers ...ok, I'm glowing with pride here, I admit it

FWIW, I picked up my DC5 almost 10 years ago and it is my #1 go-to amp for obvious reasons: tone, versatiltiy, and reliability live. And when I peruse ebay, I am always curious if I see "my" amp out there ...rare, and always at a pretty penny, consistently.

I have also personally had the chance to compare mine to the F50, and I easily prefer the DC ...not a slam on the F, I just think Mesa went "backward" with the F-series, especially with that bogus/ridiculous Contour switch and the deletion of the GEQ. Never had the chance to A/B with a Recto, though ...would like to do that.

FWIW, I agree with the "grainy" description OD of the DC, and found that a few judicious preamp tube swaps smooooothed that out ...very creamy now, and even better than when I first got it.

Sorry for the long-winded post ...I guess I am just musing about an amp that I love, and that is so good overall that though I may GAS for others, I never even consider selling mine (ok, maybe did once, but I'm claiming temp insanity ...am better now) for its stunning tone package

Edward

 

[fdesalvo]

Why is the DC not listed on the discontinued models page? Haha, it's a conspiracy. Mesa/Boogie really did it right with the DC- and there's a reason why you don't see them on ebay in the numbers that you see MKIVs and Rectos. I think its the perfect 2 channel amp. If you need a solo channel, use an additional GEQ set to emphasize upper mids and bam!

 

[edward]

OK, we have veered a bit from the original post. But I gotta agree (in my, a-hem, unbiased love, er, opinion of the DC5) that it is indeed a perfect 2-channel amp. I have my Clean set with just a touch of soulful hair around the edges, and the Lead Ch set for driving rock saturation: this and the guitar's vols and tone controls get me 98% of the sounds I need. Add a pedal for boost and compression for just that little "extra" when I need it. Gorgeous tone and lovely dynamics overall! Add an EV-loaded Thiele and you have off-the-hook harmonic richness that is indescribably glorious. I'd honestly pay much more for this amp than what I've seen them going for ...that it flies under the radar on ebay is one of the best-kept secrets in amp gear IMHO.

Edward

 

[LEVEL4]

A bit off-topic, again, but . . .

Hey, since I see a bunch of DC-amp fans here, I'm wondering how I'm going to feel about my DC-3 after I get my Mark IV tomorrow. I don't care about cleans, and only care about all types of metal sounds. Does anyone here have both a Mark IV and a DC-series amp? I was planning to bring my DC-3 to the store to A/B it with a Mark IV, but, unfortunately, I won't have time to fool around like that tomorrow. I just can't resist getting one of the last short-head Mark IVs, so I'm just going to have to get it regardless.

 

[mtnb1kr]

For a lead sound you will probably still like the DC-3 as far as a metal rhythm sound I could never get enough bottom out of mine maybe a better cab would have helped but everyone told me I'd never get it with el84 tubes. I sold it and got the Mark IV which was great but sorry it was just too much. I realize all Boogies are somewhat of a tweakers amp but it was just ridiculous. Too many switches and options. Sold that and now have a DC-5 and it's everything I wanted. Less tweaking and big tone. I would buy a DC-3 again but I don't think I'll give up the DC-5 to get it.