Do you need a tube amp if you don't play loudly???

[#2121313]

Helly Yeah brother - with ease.

Pepper Keenan uses one for his COC stuff...There's a guy here on the board, I can't recall his name who has clips posted or at least tunes up on my space...scott...something, I'll try and find some clips or something...

 

[#2121313]

Here it is: http://www.myspace.com/forcefedaustin

I once remember scottcrud here from the board saying he recorded most of this with his .50 Cal+

Scottcrud, correct me if I am wrong?

 

[Dolebludger]

A good used 50 cal., or an Express, or a Nomad 45 will set you up just fine. Since my last post here, I played my guitar through an SS amp and through my old "Rockman" headphone unit, which is also all SS (of course). Without the musical qualities of my Mesa tube amp, I could hardly play on those things. The cleans were "dry" and the overdrive did not vary with pick attack. All in all, the sound was far too "sterile" to be musical. I conclude with the opinion that any player who is SERIOUS about becoming an accomplished player must get an all tube amp with as many gain and master combinations as possible -- which will allow for both practice and concert volume levels. As was said above, such a tube amp is a musical instrument, just as your guitar is. Except that I think the amp is the more important instrument. A great player from my home town once told me that the amp is the most important part of the set-up. He was the late Barney Kessell -- perhaps the greatest jazz guitarist ever. "Don't upgrade your guitar, upgrade your amp" he said. Need I say more?

 

[nemesys]

The new mark v can be ran at 10 watts and the express series amps can be switched to 5 watts so power tube distortion at bedroom volumes can be had with a boogie amp. Try one of these out.

The newer Lonestar Classics go to 10 watts, and the Specials go to 5 as well, but you're not going to get power tube distortion at anywhere near 'bedroom' level. Wattage to volume ratio isn't a linear progression, it's logarithmic, so 5 watts is going to be about half the volume of 50 watts. My LSC set to 10 watts and turned up halfway, where the power tubes are just starting to breakup but the sound is basically still clean, can be heard by my neighbor half a mile away, and would destroy my hearing in pretty short order.

Not that you can't get great sounds out of any of these amps at bedroom volumes, of course. But at bedroom volumes, your distortion is going to be coming from your preamp tubes, and there's not a thing wrong with that.

 

[#2121313]

If $2500 is in your budget the Mark V kick's *** at low volumes (an all around - IMO).

Otherwise, for a lower priced amp ($400-500) the .50 Cal+ is sick.

 

[user 16490]

Thanks for the replies, I'll continue to watch this thread for more. I don't know what the Mark V goes for used, but I won't be buying anything new. I've been watching stuff on eBay, here, and Craigslist and the savings are too big for me to even consider buying new, especially with the transferable warranty.

 

[ryjan]

The new mark v can be ran at 10 watts and the express series amps can be switched to 5 watts so power tube distortion at bedroom volumes can be had with a boogie amp. Try one of these out.

The newer Lonestar Classics go to 10 watts, and the Specials go to 5 as well, but you're not going to get power tube distortion at anywhere near 'bedroom' level. Wattage to volume ratio isn't a linear progression, it's logarithmic, so 5 watts is going to be about half the volume of 50 watts. My LSC set to 10 watts and turned up halfway, where the power tubes are just starting to breakup but the sound is basically still clean, can be heard by my neighbor half a mile away, and would destroy my hearing in pretty short order.

Not that you can't get great sounds out of any of these amps at bedroom volumes, of course. But at bedroom volumes, your distortion is going to be coming from your preamp tubes, and there's not a thing wrong with that.

I wasnt talking about full on clean channel power tube distortion. The V set on 10 watts gets a great power tube clip at volumes where you cold play along with a bookshelf radio.

 

[nemesys]

The new mark v can be ran at 10 watts and the express series amps can be switched to 5 watts so power tube distortion at bedroom volumes can be had with a boogie amp. Try one of these out.

The newer Lonestar Classics go to 10 watts, and the Specials go to 5 as well, but you're not going to get power tube distortion at anywhere near 'bedroom' level. Wattage to volume ratio isn't a linear progression, it's logarithmic, so 5 watts is going to be about half the volume of 50 watts. My LSC set to 10 watts and turned up halfway, where the power tubes are just starting to breakup but the sound is basically still clean, can be heard by my neighbor half a mile away, and would destroy my hearing in pretty short order.

Not that you can't get great sounds out of any of these amps at bedroom volumes, of course. But at bedroom volumes, your distortion is going to be coming from your preamp tubes, and there's not a thing wrong with that.

I wasnt talking about full on clean channel power tube distortion. The V set on 10 watts gets a great power tube clip at volumes where you cold play along with a bookshelf radio.

I understand what you're saying here (I drop my LSC to 10 watts for quiet playing too), but that's not your power tubes clipping, it's coming from your preamp tubes. "Full on clean channel power tube distortion", as you describe it, is the only kind of power tube distortion, and it's very loud.

 

[ryjan]

I'm talking about the "sweet spot" not the point where the tube fully distorts. i.e. clip

 

[nemesys]

Ah, I see. I agree, the sweet spot is a nice quiet level on a 5 or 10 watt Mesa.

 

[ryjan]

Yeah, the spot where you dont get full power tube distortion but where the amp starts to really breath. My buddy with the Mark V can get to this point at a pretty low volume. My Mark IV on class A, triode is quite a bit louder. When we play together we usually have to set both of them to variac, triode with his on 90 watts and mine on simul-class to get them to line up well together. Fucking loud but oh, so nice. :twisted:

 

[nomad100hd]

I have a 5w SE amp and when i push it to distort it's louder than I often play my nomad100! Basically i think it has more to do with not having as much series resistance inline with the single at 10 W u don't have to turn the MV down as far.

 

[user 16490]

I've read through this thread again several times over the last month and have done more thinking and from a logical standpoint the solution seems completely obvious, but as far as I know the solution isn't available.

Solution: take your cab of choice and load it with speakers with a very low sensitivity, like 80 dB instead of the 95-100 dB spec that most speakers have. You could crank your amp and get the tone you're looking for while the overall volume level remains relatively low. No need for attenuators, THD Yellow Jackets, or boutique 1 watt amps.

From a logical standpoint doesn't this make perfect sense? I can't be the first person that has thought of this. The question is, do low sensitivity speakers actually exist? I'm assuming the answer is no, so I have to ask why not? What factors determine a speaker's sensitivity? Is it just not physically possible to make a low sensitivity speaker?

 

[YellowJacket]

Low sensitivity speaker wouldn't sound or behave the same as the high sensitivity ones so you still wouldn't get the tone you want since speakers are at least half of the equation. Gear is just loud, no way around it! I can apparently be heard down the street these days!!

 

[user 16490]

I can apparently be heard down the street these days!!

Uh oh.... does that mean you got a phone call from an irate neighbor?

 

[YellowJacket]

Naw, people are pretty chill here. The guy on the one side did mention that the guitar is loud but he likes to crank up his home theater so he can't really talk.

 

[Kapn.K]

I've got a 1x12 maverick and it sounds so sweet. However, I was looking for something smaller that weighed less than the mav's 59#. I was looking for sound samples on youtube and found this amp and it was for sale. I bought this exact amp. It's 5watts, plywood cab, open back 10" mojotone speaker, class a el84. It has 2 inputs(one is padded -6db, I think) and a volume knob. I paid $350 delivered(they went for $600 when new). They made 2 versions. I got the earlier one. The later one had a separate hole for the power cord. This thing does tweed to pantera. After a 1/4 volume, you're just adding gain. I keep it in my car with my wah and bb+ pedal. I hang out with some high-end guitar guys and this little jewel always impresses everyone that hears it. Blows silverface champs into the ground. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb6dr9lX1IE

 

[user 16490]

I heard tweed in that clip, but not Pantera. I like what I've read and heard about the Blackstar HT-5 and may go that route, haven't decided yet.

 

[Kapn.K]

but not Pantera

I agree but with my Duncan'd SG, I get it. I can't get that sparkle from that clip to save my life with my guitar. It's very dark sounding. Is it a blackstar or black heart? Anyway, everyone should own a small, highly portable tube amp. They're perfect for hangin' out with your boys in the garage/back porch while drinkin' guinness and shots of patron(while not pissing off a mrs too bad)

 

[user 16490]

Blackstar. I kept getting them confused when I first heard abut them but I finally know which is which now.