Do Mark V's have to be cranked to sound good?

[tlester]

Hi all -

Like Marshall/Vox type amps, they really don't sound great until they get to a certain volume (power tube saturation) level. Is this the case as well with the Mark V's? If so, how "bleeding" loud does it have to be? Does an attenuator work with them as well as they do with Marshall-y type amps?

Sorry... I don't have any Mark V's local, but one shop says they are due one some day. Until then, I have to live vicariously through you guys.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I think my Mark V sounds great even when it's barely audible, and it just gets better and better as the volume goes up.

 

[jb's 52]

No not at all...

The 10W setting combined with turning up the channel's master (volume)
and the overall amp's output ("master volume") down, I'm able to get a good
break up at a decent volume levels. IMO you don't need an attenuator.

 

[scott7d]

I've owned a 50 watt Recto and it needed cranked to venture into "good tone" territory. 90 watts on the V sounds surprisingly well at lower volumes, but still needs a good push. What set me over the top with this amp, was the 45 and 10 watt settings. Very useful for studio and practice!

 

[sted]

depends what you mean by cranked I suppose, dont use mine at home because I just dont think the speaker gets enough energy at bedroom levels, I find 45w settings are pretty **** loud with the band!

 

[Heritage Softail]

I practice early early in the morning, before making this post at, at 5:00 a.m. The MKV is really good a low volume, low power setting, using a speaker cab that is about 20 yrs old.

MKV is just a good old flexible tube amp. Loud, low, with EL34's, clean, metal, with a boost or a delay, really a nice amp. Hope you get one to kick the tires on pretty soon.

 

[tlester]

I mainly do two things. Record and play at church. I occasionally sit in with rock cover bands or small jazz combos. So... you can see, I need diversity. I have a top hat club royale that does the 18 watt marshall thing very well w/ a little bit of Vox'ness. But, I want something that can give me a lot of versatility in one amp. Don't let the fact that I say I play at church fool you. Part of why I'm looking for a new amp is that my Church wants me to bring some heavier tones. Chavelle like tones. But at the same time, I need that voxy dirt (think U2) for other songs.

Being a single channel guy for such a long time, moving to a channel switch AND boogie land is quite a switch. But I have always liked the non-recto boogies. So, we'll see.

 

[dmcguitar]

I'm just curious what songs you play at church? I never really thought of a church as a place for loud rock music, or just needing heavy tones (even if you are playing creed) Is there a time or event that occurs that you get to rock out?

I'm just wondering since alot of people play at church's and i've yet to see any advertisements for an event like that around me.

 

[tlester]

I'm just curious what songs you play at church? I never really thought of a church as a place for loud rock music, or just needing heavy tones (even if you are playing creed) Is there a time or event that occurs that you get to rock out?

I'm just wondering since alot of people play at church's and i've yet to see any advertisements for an event like that around me.

Hey - I'm glad you asked ;-) We play all types of music, but most of it's pretty rocked out stuff. We play this type of music at ever service, even our spanish service. We have 15 services on a Sunday, 2 on Saturday, and 7 (I think) on Wednesdays. That's spread out over 7 campuses. We are a pretty rock oriented church as far as music goes. And we play that kind of music in all services.

Here's a sampling of my setlist from last night's service (in order):

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/great-i-am/id325849576?i=325849658 <-- An original of our church.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-R314tcUFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkbGYOPTmrs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfdAvyVzB34

And this coming Sunday's setlist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITHxnjqXq2Y
http://vimeo.com/6816062 <-- An original of our church, you can see what a typical service of ours looks like in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLZvwCB6tCM
I don't have a link to the fourth song.

As you can see... we do a lot of that voxy type thing. But, with some of the new stuff we are getting plus my church's originals, we are getting into a bit more agressive territory. Not metal by any means, but definitely harder.

Some others we are doing regularly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybnYpI_Nzd4
http://vimeo.com/6816146 <-- Original
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xtUsJOHsA8


So, I'm nailing the voxy thing with my top hat. There are times when I could use slightly more gain with more of a marshall type vibe. Then we have a few new songs that have a heavy drop D thing happening (this is where the chevelle reference came from). Like the beginning of "Wonder What's Next" or "The Clincher". Or maybe even "Bulls on Parade" by Rage Against the Machine. Then... we also have some synth rock stuff coming soon that's similar to 30 Seconds to Mars stuff, so I need to pull off those kind of tones. Then there are still some songs that I need to have a barely breaking up tweed or vox sound.

See... I need versatility.

 

[mejoshee]

tlester, not sure if you're familiar with what a master volume does to an amp circuit, but a classic example is the marshall plexi (anyone, really). non-master volume amps need to be turned up pretty far to get power tubes saturating. at which point, you're best playing in an arena or concert hall. a master volume will bring that threshold down below bleeding volumes.

now, for church, i'd say a mark v is probably your best bet--great clean tones approaching fender blackface (maybe some vox cleans overlapping there), great crunch/mild-od type ch 2, and high-gain (fluid) metal ch 3. ch 3 doesn't get recto chunky though. it was never meant to really.

and you don't have to bust your eardrums to play that gainy. i think the problem with sound techs @ church usually is that they'll dial you back but there's still a minimum threshold you can run your amp at and still feel what it's doing. i think that the most appealing sweet spot between those two (sound system vs. player preference) is easier to do with the master volume feature. and, really, you get 2 in the mark v: 1 per channel and 1 global. on top of which, you could always still layer the solo boost on top to get pretty much any range of loudness you need from all 3 channels without upsetting or compromising too much.

i sometimes play at church. i don't really like to because usually unless they're a younger crowd, nobody's there for a concert so i've been told too many times, as far as i'm concerned, to "play dirty, but not too loud." i personally believe that the amp should be a little louder than people think @ church cause it gets everyone more involved and excited. and of course when it's a driven tone, you can't play it soft. that's just stupid. but that's my 2 cents.

anyway, i'm glad you have the opportunity to even consider a high-gain monster like a mesa for church, so i'm sure you'll make great use of it. cheers!

 

[tlester]

tlester, not sure if you're familiar with what a master volume does to an amp circuit, but a classic example is the marshall plexi (anyone, really). non-master volume amps need to be turned up pretty far to get power tubes saturating. at which point, you're best playing in an arena or concert hall. a master volume will bring that threshold down below bleeding volumes.

now, for church, i'd say a mark v is probably your best bet--great clean tones approaching fender blackface (maybe some vox cleans overlapping there), great crunch/mild-od type ch 2, and high-gain (fluid) metal ch 3. ch 3 doesn't get recto chunky though. it was never meant to really.

and you don't have to bust your eardrums to play that gainy. i think the problem with sound techs @ church usually is that they'll dial you back but there's still a minimum threshold you can run your amp at and still feel what it's doing. i think that the most appealing sweet spot between those two (sound system vs. player preference) is easier to do with the master volume feature. and, really, you get 2 in the mark v: 1 per channel and 1 global. on top of which, you could always still layer the solo boost on top to get pretty much any range of loudness you need from all 3 channels without upsetting or compromising too much.

i sometimes play at church. i don't really like to because usually unless they're a younger crowd, nobody's there for a concert so i've been told too many times, as far as i'm concerned, to "play dirty, but not too loud." i personally believe that the amp should be a little louder than people think @ church cause it gets everyone more involved and excited. and of course when it's a driven tone, you can't play it soft. that's just stupid. but that's my 2 cents.

anyway, i'm glad you have the opportunity to even consider a high-gain monster like a mesa for church, so i'm sure you'll make great use of it. cheers!

Yeah.. I'm familiar with what a master volume does. I'm also familiar with the fact that Marshalls sound like crap unless the master is cranked (or out of the circuit all together... my top hat behaves like this as well). That's basically why I was asking about the Mark V. In our main campus, we already have a dual rectifier into a marshall 4x12 on one side of the stage and a vox heritage/orange AD15 combo on the other side (we play with two electrics). We also have iso chambers if anyone really needs to crank it. But I also play at one of the smaller campuses where I don't have an iso chamber. Although... we are building a new building and I may be able to include an iso chamber in the smaller campus that I play in. We'll see.

I can't wait until the local store gets another Mark V in. I love what I hear online. I'm also glad that it doesn't do the rectifier thing, because I don't really dig that sound.

 

[mejoshee]

ok cool! didn't mean to come across as condescending at all. i apologize.

you're right though about marshalls cause they're implemented in a pretty poor way (passive circuit only), whereas the mark v global master is actually another variable gain stage. so, i believe you may find it to be a lot less compressed than a marshall would do. of course it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

when you get to that store, you could just ask them if you can really just crank it out to make sure vs. the lower stage volume you'd probably be able to get away with (w/o the iso box). another trick, if you have a personal monitor (in-ear or something) for yourself, is to just turn the cab around backwards and have it face the other way. the sound guys like that too.

you might want to try the electradyne as well. a lot cheaper and easier to dial in, though not quite as versatile.

where are you located?

 

[tlester]

ok cool! didn't mean to come across as condescending at all. i apologize.

you're right though about marshalls cause they're implemented in a pretty poor way (passive circuit only), whereas the mark v global master is actually another variable gain stage. so, i believe you may find it to be a lot less compressed than a marshall would do. of course it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

when you get to that store, you could just ask them if you can really just crank it out to make sure vs. the lower stage volume you'd probably be able to get away with (w/o the iso box). another trick, if you have a personal monitor (in-ear or something) for yourself, is to just turn the cab around backwards and have it face the other way. the sound guys like that too.

you might want to try the electradyne as well. a lot cheaper and easier to dial in, though not quite as versatile.

where are you located?

No offense taken at all. I appreciate the advice.

I live in Jacksonville, FL. We have a GC, but they don't stock Mesa's. There's another smaller, slightly sketchier shop that I never go to. They are the local mesa dealer. I may be going down to Orlando for my son't B-day in a week or two, so I may find a dealer there. There are a few in O'town.

 

[mejoshee]

ok cool! didn't mean to come across as condescending at all. i apologize.

you're right though about marshalls cause they're implemented in a pretty poor way (passive circuit only), whereas the mark v global master is actually another variable gain stage. so, i believe you may find it to be a lot less compressed than a marshall would do. of course it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

when you get to that store, you could just ask them if you can really just crank it out to make sure vs. the lower stage volume you'd probably be able to get away with (w/o the iso box). another trick, if you have a personal monitor (in-ear or something) for yourself, is to just turn the cab around backwards and have it face the other way. the sound guys like that too.

you might want to try the electradyne as well. a lot cheaper and easier to dial in, though not quite as versatile.

where are you located?

No offense taken at all. I appreciate the advice.

I live in Jacksonville, FL. We have a GC, but they don't stock Mesa's. There's another smaller, slightly sketchier shop that I never go to. They are the local mesa dealer. I may be going down to Orlando for my son't B-day in a week or two, so I may find a dealer there. There are a few in O'town.

sometimes the sketchier places have the best deals

can't help w/ fl, but you can also go on youtube and get a rough idea, especially since some of those people are playing at bedroom volumes. but of course, it's still best to feel it out yourself.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Atanta has 2 GC's. Not too far for a day trip....

 

[Scary]

I always thought the idea of the Mark series amps was to create awesome sounding gain at reasonable volumes. Not to say they don't sound better louder, but what doesn't =)

 

[MBJunkie]

tlester,

First of all...ya'll sound awesome....very professional! I love your tone and touch.
To answer your question, The MkV is very capable of sounding great at low volume and at high volume as so many have said. It definitely does not require an attenuator.

The V is extremely versatile, but does require spending time with all modes / features to really appreciate it to its fullest. The manual is well written and has been very helpful for me to achieve great sounds in short time.

Best of luck!

 

[tlester]

So... just wanted to let everyone know that my church campus has moved into a new building. When we were building out the stage, we built two slanted walls off the side of the stage to help with the acoustics and to provide storage space. On stage right, I had them build a trough from the stage into the closet area and build me a chamber. So, now I have a chamber int his closet that I can stick an amp in and crank the daylights out of it! I mic it in there and the mix me in the house and my monitor.

Monitor isn't quite the same as having the amp on stage, but I'm still digging it. At least I can turn up pretty loud.

 

[Deaj]

While the MkV is definitely at its best when played at gigging levels it does produce some fantastic tone at very low volume as well.

 

[Hendog]

The answer is... yes and no.

The amp sounds great at low volumes, but "opens up" when you get to about 10 on the master.