Do Mark IIIs vary significantly amp to amp?

[BigKD]

I have a loaded simul class Mark III from 1985. I bought it on ebay advertised as a green stripe, but it's really a black stripe with the 105 transformer that was "upgraded" in 2006 to a Green stripe at mesa boogie. I think this means that the power was changed from pentode to triode... but I'm not sure if anything else was modified. I recently got the amp back again from service at mesa boogie to correct volume swell issues and change the capacitors. Right now I've got Winged C 6L6s on the inside slots and winged C EL34s on the outside.

The reason I ask the question in the title is that I am wondering if I got "a good one" or a "bad one"...if you know what I mean. Some amps just sing and others don't.

The high point for me with this amp is the cleans. They are really special IMO. I'm going for a "Phish" sound [Trey Anastasio plays a red stripe Mark III], and the cleans are nice and smoky with great punch. But R2 and R3 don't really do it for me. Even trying to emulate Trey's tone with stacked tube screamers on R1...I'm not quite getting there yet.

I have tried rolling some NOS tubes in the preamp [RFT and tungsram] and have gotten some "changes" but still i'm not being blown away by anything but the cleans.

Does this amp need some serious volume applied to it in order to sound glorious? Another factor is that I have relatively new speakers. It's a port city 212os loaded with one ceramic tone tubby hemp cone and one alnico hemp cone. I've probably got about 5 hours playing time on the speakers and 20 hours of home stereo break in [cd player fed to return of effects lop and amp turned up quite loud].

Anybody ever bonded with one mark III but not another?

 

[Trey Blue]

I can't speak to the differences from amp to amp, but if you are going for treys sound try setting your first tube screamer drive to zero, and your second drive to 10. Having a compressor next is a big key to the sound as well. Now try this setting on your amp:

http://www.chain-metal.nl/mark3/?bg=3&d1=100&d2=50&d3=45&d4=45&d5=30&d6=25&d7=60&p=20&g1=20&g2=50&g3=80&g4=50&g5=20&t=Trey%27s+Amp

Note that the eq should be switched to auto so that it only engages with the lead channel on. If you want the clean tone, turn you guitar volume as low as half. Also use a light touch and selective string muting, as this setup can go ballistic at a drop of the hat. Assuming you have a hollowbody guitar, you should be well on your way.

 

[stephen sawall]

Every amp is different .... "significantly" is a matter of opinion.

Wait till your speakers have at least 50 / 60 hours at band volume before you really start judging anything by them.

Personally I feel the majority of someones sound is in the hands .... the gear only does so much.

 

[Neptical]

Everything you've mentioned you have should definitely be getting you into the general vicinity with no problem at all. You didn't mention guitar/pups you're using. That's definitely a HUGE part of his sound. Also, don't be scared to crank those mids..that's what gets these amp to sing. You didn't mention your settings. I can get pretty **** close using my PRS' into either one of mine ( purple/red stripes) even at bedroom volume. So, maybe as mentioned above you need more break in time on the speakers.

 

[BigKD]

Everything you've mentioned you have should definitely be getting you into the general vicinity with no problem at all. You didn't mention guitar/pups you're using. That's definitely a HUGE part of his sound. Also, don't be scared to crank those mids..that's what gets these amp to sing. You didn't mention your settings. I can get pretty **** close using my PRS' into either one of mine ( purple/red stripes) even at bedroom volume. So, maybe as mentioned above you need more break in time on the speakers.

I've got an ibanez as103 semi-hollow w/ seth lover pickups. Definitely close enough to trey's axe. Also, I am using two TS-9 silver mods into an analog man comprosser...so that's on par as well. I have played with the settings to no end. One thing to note is that Trey only uses the GEQ when in R3. He has his EQ set to auto.

Oddly enough, I think the issue is at least in part my TUBES!

I put my old mesa tubes back in there and things started warming/sweetening up, even though I can tell those tubes are on their way out. My newish Winged c's probably are not fitting into Mesa's bias the way they should. I'm hoping my tech can install the bias pot mod later this week.

 

[Neptical]

Yeah..the lead channel (obv) set Auto is definitely where that tone is. I have a picture somewhere of his amp/settings from a close up shot of his rig on stage. You're pretty spot on with guitar and pups, or as close as its gonna get. Also, good move on experimenting with different tubes as that can tonally change an amp into a whole new amp. Keep trying..you'll get it. Good luck!

 

[BigKD]

Yeah..the lead channel (obv) set Auto is definitely where that tone is. I have a picture somewhere of his amp/settings from a close up shot of his rig on stage. You're pretty spot on with guitar and pups, or as close as its gonna get. Also, good move on experimenting with different tubes as that can tonally change an amp into a whole new amp. Keep trying..you'll get it. Good luck!

Final thing...listened to a bunch of youtube videos of different stripes. The red stripe is where it's at for this sound.

 

[Big Block]

I had a blue stripe Mark III and I freaking hated it. It fed back like crazy and sounded really fizzy. I spent big bucks trying to get that amp to sound good and I ended up trading it for a Triaxis because it never sounded right.

 

[Neptical]

With my own personal experience,both of mine do have a bit of a tonal difference. The red one is definitely a bit 'hotter' sounding while the purple is quite a bit warmer actually. I've heard a black and a blue stripe that sounded excellent live. There's so many different variables into getting the tone..and these amps seem to be quite sensative to everything. The Triaxis on the other hand into a 2:90 is unbelievable.

 

[Captainwave]

Everything you've mentioned you have should definitely be getting you into the general vicinity with no problem at all. You didn't mention guitar/pups you're using. That's definitely a HUGE part of his sound. Also, don't be scared to crank those mids..that's what gets these amp to sing. You didn't mention your settings. I can get pretty **** close using my PRS' into either one of mine ( purple/red stripes) even at bedroom volume. So, maybe as mentioned above you need more break in time on the speakers.

Please, please Mr Neptical. Can you post (or PM me) the settings for getting that sound "even at bedroom settings". I'd really want that. I'm a PRS player as well (408 Standard with a Rosewood neck is the new horse in the stable). I (will) have a Mark III Red Stripe, pending shipment...

Sorry, just saw the setting tool link above. Got it.

 

[lyman]

Amps can vary a bit, for sure. The components used to build them might have different values when they are new and certainly as they age the can drift from spec even more. Sometimes builders use different suppliers for parts too. It all adds up.

Maybe this, if you haven't seen it already, will help in your tone quest. Phish showed these gear demo videos during set breaks at the new year's run this past December. From the man himself:

Trey pt I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG-jXPQe1ak&list=UUDEPOd0RCvw8iSTqFpSBZLA&index=5
pt II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AywJYBCxxuc

He makes an interesting point: "Knowing your gear is more important than having great gear."

 

[BigKD]

I now have a red stripe in addition to my black/green stripe.

Well, they do sound noticeably different. The red is spongier in feel and the R2 and leach channels are definitely voiced differently [hotter]. My black green/stripe has the 105 transformer from the IIC+ era but is wired in pentode on the outer sockets and "upgraded" to a green stripe by mesa boogie in 2006. That amp is a tighter and slightly brighter sound.