difference in mk iv speakers

[MAiR]

Hello,
due to the fact that i have no chance to listen to any of mk iv combos i'm asking you for some help describing what's the difference in different speakers used in mk iv combos... as i see there are 3 of thse... celestion v30, black shadow and evl, can you help me with that? which one do you preffer personaly?... do combos sound much worse than head + 1*12 cab?... thanks

 

[Antoine]

It's a matter of taste, but about me, i've never played the MarkIV with the black shadow, but i've played both the EVL and the V30's, i totally dislike the EVL, the V30's is by far my favorite speaker with the MarkIV, a much more smoother tone, and really a Rock tone to die for, but it's only my point of view...

 

[Russ]

I have the EVM and love it. It is a very honest clear speaker. The V30 tends to add some of that Celestion sound that can be favored however if I want that I plug into my 4x12 that has v30s in it. I have a convertible cabinet 1x12 also that goes from closed back to open back and even to Theile style ported. In it resides an EVM. The EVM in a ported cabinet has to be the best 1x12 sound that you can achieve though in a regular sealed or open back cabinet the speaker sounds good too. A single V30 will not handle the output that your Mark IV will dish out. So I would seriously consider the EVM or the C90 (Black Shadow). Though many think that the EVM can sound too plain, I find that it really let's the amp's characteristics shine through. It tends to retain clarity. In high gain tight focused fast rhythms it clearly outshines the V30 because the V30 gets a little mushy sounding in copmparison. As far as the EVM v. C90 that is a little closer comparison. I still think that the EVM is a better speaker though it is heavier but you must make a sacrifice for sound quality somewhere. The C90 (Black Shadow) is voiced by Celestion for Mesa and does a good job but I still feel that the EVM is a clearer speaker. Ultimately if you want even a better (cleaner) speaker than the EVM you will look to JBL. But you didn't ask about JBL. So for my rankings it would go like this according to your choices set forth for a single 12: EVM, C90, V30. However if you were to run a 2x12 extension cabinet you might like the V30s. I would still run an EVM with it in the combo itself or get a Thiele loaded with the EVM. The EVM just has more bottom and really puts out clean unaduterated sound that the Celestions can't. Together there is a special dynamic that I can't really describe. I like to run the EVM in the Thiele with a 4x12 loaded with some Celestions in it. I have an arsenal that includes 4x12s loaded with: greenbacks, 65s, V30s, and 75s. They all have their purpose. In a single 12 in a combo I would look to the EVM then the C90. But, it all depends upon what you like in your sound. If you get a chance try them out. You might like the C90 better. Just remember that you will more than likely blow the V30 if you try to run it by itself unless you never run in full power mode. Remember that the Mark IV is an 85 watt amp and the V30 is really only a 60 watt speaker (it used to be a 70 watter). The 85 watts that the amp is rated at is also a rating based upon clean headroom so once you start to push the amp it will go above and beyond that. Safely for the speaker and the amp the EVM is the best choice. It has a 200 watt rating. The speaker will not distort nor get hot and possibly damage itself nor the amp should it fail due to exceeding the wattage because the amp is not capable of it. Again this is if you are only running a single 12. If you choose to run an extension cabinet also then most combinations will work but I still like the EVM in the equation. Another concept to think about is that while the EVM puts out an honest clear sound the V30 sounds a little dark at times too. The V30 can accent your sound if you are looking for that type of tone but again it is something that you cannot dial out whereas the EVM you just have to present the sound you want to the speaker and it faithfully reproduces the sound you put into it.

Antoine has been known to get good tone and I am sure that his opinion is valid but I would be curious to see exactly how he uses the V30 and if it is the sole speaker in the rig. It may be in a 2x12, 4x12, or in a combination of the combo and an extension cabinet. Again, taste is the issue at hand. It all depends upon how you want to run your setup and what tone you are trying to achieve.

Some guys on here run all EVMs with 4x12s even that handle 800 watts. Others use all C90s or V30s. Some like myself use a combination fo speakers to gain teh advantages of them all. So just try stuff out until you find what you like. You are the one that will eventually end up having to listen to the speaker(s) that you choose. Some speakers are better for certain types of music while others sound better for others.

 

[Antoine]

You're right Russ, in a 1 speaker only config', the V30's will not be able to accept the power delivered by the MarkIV, i was talking about a 2x12 or a 4x12.
I use the MarkIV with the 2x12 Recto Cab, sometimes with a Vintage 4x12 Marshall loaded with 2 V30's and 2 G12H-30 Celestions, but i like the 2x12 better !,
What i like about the Celestion is that special color they bring to the tone, that smoothness and fluidity, they distort very well, they add this desirable sizzle to the sound, it's perfect for my needs ! Once again Russ is right, the V30's tends to be a little dark.
In comparison, the EVM is more "rigid", in distorded tones they are too "HI-FI" sounding, plus they don't distort as well and as early as the V30's.
As Russ said, try the 3 speakers until you find what you like !

 

[MAiR]

thank you guys for all your responses, sorry that it took me a while to get back here (work overload ****). Well at this point i'm pretty darn lost, i think single v30 is not too suitable in the combo so it's evm vs c90 (what did you mention about jbl, are those also put into combos of mark iv? never seen those for sale). Worst thing of all is that i have no chance to listen to any of these combos, because as i mentioned before there are no mesas around here, the closest mesa seems to be in poland ~800km away from here and those are probably factory sealed and not opened unless bought...

the tone i'm after is something like metallica s&m distortion, and i don't care too much about the sound of the clean, i just like most of the cleans i hear (ofcourse not those that are produced by 100$ worth, 200w amps ), so the most concern is about distortion...

at the moment i'm running marshall avt100x, 150w combo (100w speaker), with ibanez ts9 as aditional overdrive for more sustain and smoother overdrive, but i hope to get rid of all that by the end of the next summer, hopefully i have mesa by then.

it would be great to hear about those jbl combos and some additional tips on topic entitled "which-one-to-choose" now that you know the sound i'm after :], i guess the only option for me is to trust you and buy the one that you suggest to :], thanks.

edited: i'm from lithuania btw:]

 

[falcos]

I go for a VERY tight and chunky defined rhythm sound mixed between old Anthrax, Lamb of God, old Exodus, Metallica, Iced Earth..etc.

I understand that the widebody is geared to be voiced for more of a vintage or open loose kinda sound, but in my opinion, if I didn't have a 2x12 recto cab to play it through, I'd still be completely happy playing through the 1x12 C90 for tight chunky rhythms even with the open back!

But there's 3 other things to consider: Technique, guitar and amount of gain/drive.

You should have a really good feel for the sweet spot between the bridge and the strings to get that chunk. Pressing a little harder with the palm will bring it out.

When I play my stock Ibanez Prestige, I do NOT get the tight sound I'm after, close but no cigar. When I play my Les Paul Custom with a Dimarzio Super Distortion, I completely GET it. So keep in mind wood and pickups. I will try new pickups in the Prestige and see how much of a difference it makes, but the wood is truly important.

Also, you don't want over saturation, it gets worse from there. Work your way up from a really dry sound while testing your sounds 1 notch at a time. You'll find when you have enough of saturation, you may want to pull BACK a notch on the drive/gain then pump the volume a bit and put the tubes to work. That's when it all starts to come together.

One last note, I used to live by putting a ts-808 tube screamer in front of all my older amps to tighten it up (low drive, high tone, low level) -- that always pissed me off because if I buy an amp, I want to use it for the sound it gives, not to always say "oh it will sound even better once I put my tube screamer in front of it" -- but ever since I got the Mark IV, I don't need it anymore, so to make it official, I sold the tube screamer. I'm weird like that.

Anyways, these are things that I've noticed that really helped me and others and hope it can help you in some way. Good luck!!!!!!

 

[MAiR]

thanks for all your posts :]... well as i understand, it doesn't even matter which mkiv will i own, as all of those are high-ends :]...

btw, i own ltd truckster (les paul style, maghony body, emg 60+81) if that makes any sense.

 

[avalonpb]

Hello,
due to the fact that i have no chance to listen to any of mk iv combos i'm asking you for some help describing what's the difference in different speakers used in mk iv combos... as i see there are 3 of thse... celestion v30, black shadow and evl, can you help me with that? which one do you preffer personaly?... do combos sound much worse than head + 1*12 cab?... thanks

I have a MKIV shot combo with the Stock EVL. I also have a Mesa 1x12 short cab Celestion 90, a Mesa Thiele w/EVL, and formerly a Avatar 2x12 with Celestion 30s.

I've had the amp for about 10 years and in that time I've struggled with its tone. Some days I love it -other days I hate it. I also have a Tremoverb and Quad/Simul 395 rack rig.

The best I've ever heard the MKIV sound is with the Thiele cab connected and the combo speaker (EVL) unplugged. It's awesome. 2nd best is the Celestion 90 cab. I did not care one bit for the tone with the Avatar cab and that was an awesome sounding cab. It made my Univalve sound good and that is one of the worst sounding amps I've EVER owned.

Now, IF you put the amp on the floor (mine sits on my amp rack) and have a room big enough the crank it way up the stock EVL is killer. It is just that at lower volumes it beams high-end.

So, to summarize my preference:
1. Thiele with EVL
2. Celestion BS 90
3. Stock EVL