DC5 with an EVM...

[edward]

Wow! No really, wow!!!

Keep in mind, I love the MC90. Great speaker with lovely mids and smooth top. But on a whim (and desiring a bit more bottom end but didn't want to sacrifice the great mids/highs), I decided to try an EVM12L. I love this speaker anyway ...should have kept my old one when I had a Thiele, but I digress. I found an EVM12L original OE-style silver magnet, no sticker or heatsink, and loaded up my DC5 widebody combo cab. Freaking bloody heck!

The highs that I liked with the MC90 were still all there, but even smoother! Plenty "present" but always pleasant and musical trebles. The lush mids that the amp put out before are even more defined; individual note detail with the Lead channel is much better than with the MC90. Again, I liked what the MC90 brought to the table, but by comparison to the EV, the mids sounded blurred. With the EV, each note seems "outlined" as it sings with rich mids.

Bass ...easy, it's an EVM afterall. Clean, tight, and big. No contest here (as I have yet to hear a speaker "out-bottom-end" the EVM and still remain clear and focused). Lots of flubby bassy speakers I've heard out there, but the EVM is big and tight; and in the widebody combo cab just sounds perfect.
Keep in mind I used to own a EVM-loaded Thiele ...dug it's bottom and top end, but mids were lacking for me. But in the wide combocab, the EV really sounds like it's at home.

Of course the downside to all this love is the weight ...my already heavy DC5 just got heavier. Ugh ...no fun there. Still, it's worth it. You folks with a combo cab or widebody ext cab owe it to yourself to give the EVM a listen. No stinkin wonder Mesa used to load these up regularly with the old Marks. Its a match in tonal heaven

Edward

 

[BlackBoxy]

you are comparing a 80w rms with a 200w rms , useless !

of course the 200w will not breack up at same frequences and power , but its not a good idea to drive too powerfull drivers with a 50w amp, what you are getting in clarty you loss it in hamonics and musicality !

 

[MJ Slaughter]

I love the EVM12L with my DC-5 but I use heads now with separate cabinets. One 1x12, one 2x12 each with EVM12Ls depending on the room and stage space. When I had a DC-3 combo I had a 300 watt EVM12L loaded and that was silly heavy for a 30 watt amp.

BlackBoxy, not everyone wants or even likes speaker breakup.

 

[edward]

FWIW, the MC90, rated at 90 watts, is not even remotely close to speaker "breaking up" tone at low-mid band volumes (rehearsal with a light-touch drummer and bassist). Sorry, that whole "speaker is breaking up" tone is true if you're running a low-watt speaker+smaller amp such as the tweed crowd, and intentionally trying to get speaker breakup, or if you're really cranking the amp (again, read low-wattage amps, of which these guys love their breakup), which I am not cranking, by a long shot. Turn my amp down (low volume but louder than "bedroom level") with the stock MC90, then turn it up: the timbre is largely the same, albeit with more bottom and punch when the amp is louder ...but NO BREAKUP happening. "Breakup" and "loss of harmonics" is completely ridiculous.

Nor does a speaker's power-handling capacity have any bearing on this discussion ...to raise the difference in each speaker's power-handling capability underscores a fundamental misunderstanding. "Not good to drive a more powerful driver with a 50w amp" ??? Pure, 100% hogwash and misinformation! The music world is full of folks running drivers far and above the rating of any said amp ...puhlease! This "too much speaker for the amp" is pure fantasy that not only has no basis in fact, but is oft-repeated internet lore. Read and ask the experts. This is such an obvious point I shouldn't even be discussing it.

OK, simple point here: I am comparing two speakers' tones in the same combo amp. Compare the tone and judge for yourself. I love what the MC90 brings, but found I prefer the MC90 sounded better in a 112 ext cab that is slightly larger (and with a smaller opening) than when in the widebody amp. And the comboamp itself, I prefer with the EVM. All personal and subjective points, to be sure. But it is worth a try for you DC folks looking for a bit more bottom (which is also tighter/focused), and more defined mids (that are still present and rich, but "clearer" even with OD, than the MC90). Simply offering my personal tone report. Enjoy!

Edward

 

[BlackBoxy]

this "too much speaker for the amp" is pure fantasy that not only has no basis in fact, but is oft-repeated internet lore. Read and ask the experts. This is such an obvious point I shouldn't even be discussing it.

the best way for any amp to kill tone is to drive it with a over powered speakers, in guitar amps, hifi PA whatever ..

Well, in my experience any driver should be about 1.5 X rms of the max ouput amp, over this the driver doesn't work properly , a driver need to be be feeded to work the best , under a level it loss its sensitivity, and a 50w amp will nevah make a 200rms run enough hard to make it shine! lot of harmonics and fancy frequencies will be tamed by the harder cone !

if peoples like it, nasal and cold cleans, its a matter of taste

 

[edward]

Yeah, nasal and cold. You nailed it ...that's exactly what happens, thanks. ... :roll:

Edward

 

[BlackBoxy]

Yeah, nasal and cold. You nailed it ...that's exactly what happens, thanks. ... :roll:

Edward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tpzGQ4lMk

tell me your evm doesn't curve mids ? makinf attack nasal? Mesa designed Dc5 around mc90 , they would have done diferently with a evm 12!

 

[edward]

No point in furthering this pointless exchange. But I will simply leave anyone who may be interested (or at least morbidly curious) with the following:

1. My point was simply to express my subjective impressions (and preference) on one spkr over another in this one specific widebody combocab and amp.

2. Mesa has been using the MC90, the EVM12L, the Vintage30, and the MS12 long before the DC series. There is zero evidence that I have seen that points to the DC being "designed around" the MC90. When one offers irrefutable evidence to the contrary, then I will gladly concede that one point; until that time, I will call this out as 100% baseless.

3. Given any amp's design and factory speaker offering, does experimenting with speakers other than the factory-supplied speaker (for the purpose of exploring other tonal avenues, of course) obviate the design of the amp and its creators? So no one has done this before? (I am now looking up waiting for the sky to fall).

4. Any may look at the EVM12L freq reponse for one's self: what is it there that consititues "curved mids" ...which btw you have neglected to state which way it is curved? The EVM12L is neither flat nor scooped: there is a distinct rise (small spike? semantics alert...) in the upper mids. Be that as it may on paper, one can use one's own ears (and ultimately should since I have never "played" a frequency response ...I prefer music, myself) to determine what one prefers.

5. A Youtube clip? That "says" anything meaningful? As "evidence" of what? I don't think I need to go any further with that one.

6. To suggest that one will "kill tone by [driving] it with over powered speakers" ...again, I gotta just let that one hang out there. We are all free to believe what we like. And this sentiment kind of says it all for me. :roll:

I will simply reiterate my OP's sentiment: I have have both preferred and not preferred the EVM, depending on the varying circumstances. And in my DC5 combocab, I prefer it's voicing over the MC90 for what I do; and I simply recommend that anyone looking for more bottom and clearer mids give it a listen as you may just like it. Or not
And will further reiterate that I love the MC90 in general, yet prefer it in an openbacked ext cab, which is slightly larger than the combocab's internal volume and has a much smaller opening, than I do in its original amp placement.

Edward

 

[BlackBoxy]

And will further reiterate that I love the MC90 in general, yet prefer it in an openbacked ext cab, which is slightly larger than the combocab's internal volume and has a much smaller opening, than I do in its original amp placement.

its the best quote i think, :wink: :mrgreen:

 

[JS_BE]

How about running a Fender Champ through a 4x12 cab. 5W amp through a total of 350W of speakers... Sounds Killer to me.

When I bought my Mark III factory loaded with the EVM I was afraid it would sound dull at lower volumes because of the 200w rating of the speaker.
This was based on the fact that I had tested and compared some speakers in a 1x12 cab with my Mark IIa.
Speakers were: Celestion V30, Celestion G12H100, Eminence Cannabis Rex and a Fender (eminence).
With the 100W Celestion everything sounded dull so that was no go. That speaker really needed the power to sound good.
In the end I liked the Cannabis Rex best.

That said I was amazed how good the EVM sounds combined with the Mark III, I haven't even used it in Simul-Class mode, always on 15W...

In the end it's all personal taste, If you get your sound running a cheap guitar through a Mark V through a cabinet loaded with car hifi speakers, fine by me. But stop whining about it if you have no experience with it!

 

[BlackBoxy]

good to you, running 5w amp straight to a 350w cab, great !

as about my experience, i have experienced EVM 12L already into caliber 50, pants!

i even tested jensen and V30 there, pants ! the C90 dc5 loaded has this needed midrange cut that make you playing among others live, and not over the others ! EVM work better into a mark combo !