DC5 does seem to be a little dark

[Allmostawake]

I said a little dark. It seems to have a slight mid to upper mid spike. And oddly enough it seems to give me more ear fatigue than any other amp I've owned. Has anyone noticed this as well?

 

[LEVEL4]

I have a DC-3 head, but I also think it's overly dark. Even with brand new tubes, there just seems to be a lack of presence in this amp.

 

[Esromeron]

I thought the same thing with my DC-5. It sounded nice, but really dark. I switched out all of the tubes from the Mesa's to a nice set that Dougstubes set me up with and it sounds absolutely amazing now. Also the cleans sound way better in my opinion.

Here's his recommended setup.
V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 - Mullard reissue 12AX7
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V4 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V5 - Shuguang 12AX7C9
V6 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS
SED Winged =C= 6L6GC's for the power.

The Mullard usually tends to be a little dark in amps, but it balances well with the Tung-Sol which tends to be a little harsh (my opinion). The Mullards smooths out the leads so nicely.

 

[LEVEL4]

Really? Do the presence and treble knobs actually seem to do something now, with Doug's recommended tube changes? By the way, I already have a brand new set of TungSol re-issues in V1 througth V6, and fairly new JJ EL-84s in the power section.

Although the DC-3 sounds really nice, compared with my Mark IV, my DC-3 sounds like it has a blanket over it. Compared with my Recto, it sounds like it has a down comforter over it.

 

[Esromeron]

Really? Do the presence and treble knobs actually seem to do something now, with Doug's recommended tube changes?

To be honest, not really. I mean its noticeable if you move treble from like 4-8, but in between that its not very apparent. The treble and presence on this amp just does not seem to have a wide "sweep". I can't really say if thats better than before as I didn't have the Mesa tubes in long.

 

[LEVEL4]

Really? Do the presence and treble knobs actually seem to do something now, with Doug's recommended tube changes?

To be honest, not really. I mean its noticeable if you move treble from like 4-8, but in between that its not very apparent. The treble and presence on this amp just does not seem to have a wide "sweep". I can't really say if thats better than before as I didn't have the Mesa tubes in long.

Well, thank you for that honest evaluation. I'd hate to throw in another set of expensive tubes, just to gain only a modest improvement, when I could be spending that money on either a new output transformer and re-bias or a better amp.

 

[edward]

In all the years that I have used mine, live or just in practice, I would never use the word "dark" ...I'd go with "smooth," or "not a bright amp" but never "dark." Perhaps your tubes are old or just not matched well with the amp. Also make sure your GEQ works and is assigned properly ...the 6.6K slider and the presence knobs should *easily* brighten up the amp. If not, then perhaps something is wrong?

Edward

 

[Fxrs]

Really? Do the presence and treble knobs actually seem to do something now, with Doug's recommended tube changes?

To be honest, not really. I mean its noticeable if you move treble from like 4-8, but in between that its not very apparent. The treble and presence on this amp just does not seem to have a wide "sweep". I can't really say if thats better than before as I didn't have the Mesa tubes in long.

Yeah, I've never quite understood the whole "just a tiny bump in the dials makes a huge difference in the tone." I haven't seen it, and I've had my DC-5 since @ 1996. I just put an Eminence Wizard in mine, it'll be staying in, it should help with the "darkness", it did for me.

 

[LEVEL4]

In all the years that I have used mine, live or just in practice, I would never use the word "dark" ...I'd go with "smooth," or "not a bright amp" but never "dark." Perhaps your tubes are old or just not matched well with the amp. Also make sure your GEQ works and is assigned properly ...the 6.6K slider and the presence knobs should *easily* brighten up the amp. If not, then perhaps something is wrong?

Edward

Yeah, hard to tell without a totally, factory-spec DC-3 to compare. Probably worth a trip to the Mesa store for a check-up. But, "not a bright amp," certainly describes my DC-3. There is treble in there, because I hear it in my recordings, and sometimes even have to back it off when recording. But, I just seem to have the 6.6K slider, treble, and presence dimed all the time. Do resistive pots (either the rotary or sliders) ever get "tired" or out-of-spec somehow?

 

[tetsubin]

Presence dimed, treble and presence controls don't have much range :shock:

Are we talking about the same amp?

I play a DC-5 head. Talking about the lead channel, when I turn treble from 5 (which is my normal setting) to 6 there's a big difference. The sound gets thinner, more piercing - more of a metal tone. It's the same with the presence control, turn it to 8-10 and the sound becomes quite unusable.

Presence dimed, treble dimed, AND 6.6Khz all the way up? Man, you should go have an audiometry if that doesn't kill you :lol:

But you're right in so far, as Mesa/Boogies are no ENGL amps, which are quite piercing to begin with. The DC-5 is not bright, it's got a strong midrange and that's what it makes the perfect amp for bandsettings.

But if your knobs really don't do much, I would get the amp checked - this seems not right.

Another reason might be the powertube difference between the DC-3 and the DC-5. Perhaps the DC-3 is more of a blues-rock-amp than the DC-5 with its 6L6s, which tend to have a slight natural scoop sound to them.

 

[fdesalvo]

I find that on amps like the MKIV and DC, the knobs function more to alter the texture or feel of the amp. The GEQ is where the real shaping takes place. But it's strange that you aren't noticing a difference; those rotary controls did make a noticeable difference in both my DC3 and 10 heads.

As far as bright or dark, my DC3 could go either way depending on the settings. You need to take that head with you to a few shops and try out some different cabs. The EL84s should be bright and very rich. I wouldn't be surprised of the JJs are the culprit- they lasted only an hour or two in my DC3 and Peavey C30 because they killed the righ harmonics and sparkle of the stock power tubes. They were the blankets in my amps.

Really? Do the presence and treble knobs actually seem to do something now, with Doug's recommended tube changes?

To be honest, not really. I mean its noticeable if you move treble from like 4-8, but in between that its not very apparent. The treble and presence on this amp just does not seem to have a wide "sweep". I can't really say if thats better than before as I didn't have the Mesa tubes in long.

 

[blacklight_uk]

I've not had my DC-5 long (3 months maybe) but i do spend a lot of time with it. In fact i've just been playing it this minute.

I can totally understand why people say it's a "dark" amp but to say that the treble and presence controls don't affect the tone is crazy imo unless you are using dull sounding guitars/pedals or there is something wrong with it.

I've found that for me the treble works best at around 5-7 on the lead channel and 4-5 on the rhythm channel for clean. As for presence i usually have that at around 2 or 3 depending on the room.

I'm running Mesa 6L6 STR-450s which i believe come as stock. It's a combo and so goes through a Black Shadow, and i use a Gibson SG-3 with blade pickups and a true bypass pedal chain, so i don't think my setup is unusually bright :?

Have you tried backing off the mids a little? I always find that they are very dominant on this amp and is perhaps why a lot of people like the V shape. I personally don't use my graphic EQ. Yet :twisted:

 

[Esromeron]

But, I just seem to have the 6.6K slider, treble, and presence dimed all the time.

Ohh wow, I usually have mine (Treble 7, Presence 4, and the 6.6k a little over flat), and its plenty for my metal needs!

But it's strange that you aren't noticing a difference; those rotary controls did make a noticeable difference in both my DC3 and 10 heads.

What I meant was that there isn't a very noticeable change from 4-5 in the treble, at least comparatively to my Carvin Legacy. Treble from 4 to 8 on the DC5 is like going from 4-6 on the Legacy. The only way I know how to describe it is that the amp's treble just does not seem to have a wide "sweep". That being said there is definitely no lack of Treble or Presence in the DC5.

 

[edward]

But, I just seem to have the 6.6K slider, treble, and presence dimed all the time.

Ohh wow, I usually have mine (Treble 7, Presence 4, and the 6.6k a little over flat), and its plenty for my metal needs!

But it's strange that you aren't noticing a difference; those rotary controls did make a noticeable difference in both my DC3 and 10 heads.

What I meant was that there isn't a very noticeable change from 4-5 in the treble, at least comparatively to my Carvin Legacy. Treble from 4 to 8 on the DC5 is like going from 4-6 on the Legacy. The only way I know how to describe it is that the amp's treble just does not seem to have a wide "sweep". That being said there is definitely no lack of Treble or Presence in the DC5.

I don't know about the Legacy specifically, but some of Carvin's amps have active controls ...so practically by definition there will be more sweep and discernible diff as you turn, compared to a passive pot. That said, every Mesa model's tone stack responds differently to knob changes: e.g. with my MKIII and DC5, the former's knobs seem more "touch sensitive" ...not "better" by definition, but certainly different. So it does not surprise me one bit that a diff mfg's amp has a tone sweep that is more dramatic than a Boog's (or that certain Fender's Mid knobs do absolutely nothing

And then there is the fact that each control responds differently: my DC5's volume knobs are certainly more sensitive than the tone stack knobs. Then the Mid's knob is more sensitive in the 0-4 range than it is in the 4+ range. Personality of each amp ...learn it then embrace it

Edward

 

[darkmavis]

i may get flamed for this, but here goes...... i recently bought my first boogie (dc10) and took it to practice last night, i was all geared up to rock out, so i plugged it in and started playing our set. it just sounded, well....dark. so i played with it and set the treb high ect and then i started on the eq. boosted all the bass and trebs (classic v) and got a killer tone (well i thought so) at break time (aka beer time) i went to the toilet at the back of the practice hall, while i was having my call of nature, the singer had a go on my guitar, and amp... when i walked back in, my amp (with the same guitar plugged in) sounded like it may cut my head off it was so toppy, it was a mad piercing tone. so the upshot was i hadn't stood far enough away from my amp to fully appreciate sound that coming out :idea: im sure you've tried this but i thought id mention it, due to the fact id never thought about it before, now my sound while practicing and gigging, to me sounds muddy but out front......sewwt jesus is sounds good.... :roll:

 

[Esromeron]

I know this is getting off topic now! but i really feel like the need to share my DC-5 experience today!

Have you had one of those days where everything just sounds freagin amazing? No matter what you play its dead on, and sounds soooooooooo (thats right 10 o's!!!) awesome. Today was one of those days. I was only plugged straight into the DC5 for half the time. Then i hooked up my Maxon OD808, and man it got even better. I played an hour longer than I'd set out to do!

So after a while of playing, I got thinking about the "What amp for Bedroom Levels" threads. So I turned down the Master on the lead channel down to 2, and the output to 2.5. Wow is all I have to say. Sounded so amazing still (not quite as cranked, but still awesome as hell)! I will now never sell this amp. If I do ever replace it (some reason I'm GASing for a MarkIV or a Roadster), its a great practice amp if need to be!

This amp never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I've noticed that about Thieles and many other cabs. They just don't sound the same unless you are at ear level or at least at a distance from them.


How did the settings work for you?

 

[darkmavis]

hi man, the settings were great, this story was from my first praccy before i tried your settings, sounds even better now!! loving the bluesy overdrive setting dude, i run a electro harmonix linear power booster 2 (70's) to get a nice solo sound out of it too. just need to play with my effects and the effecs loop now and all will be perfect!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Glad to help out!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Just did a little tweaking with my DC-5.

Here is what I came up with:

Re-biased the tubes, they were a little hot. JJ 6L6's.
Removed the 220k resistor from the Output Volume pot.
Replaced V1 & V2 w/JJ High Gains from Eurotubes.
Replaced V3 with a JJ 12AX7S.
Replaced V4 (most important for cleans) with an NOS Mullard.
Replaced V5 with a JJ 12AX7S.
Replaced V6 with a JJ 12AX7S.

And finally......
Celestion Gold Alnico speaker! This thing rocks. Just changing the speaker from the stock C90 opened this amp up like you wouldn't believe.



It had new tubes in it, but I had set it up for Bluesy clean tones for the last owner.

I like more of the Gary Moore, Santana, ZZ Top tones.


I tried some Blackplate Reissue Chinese 6V6's that sound absolutely incredible in Deluxe Reverbs. I really liked them, but the Gold speaker is only 8 ohms and I wouldn't be able to use an external cab since an 8 ohm speaker needs to be in the 4 ohm slot to sound right.

Now if I only had a 16 ohm (I guess they only come in 8 & 15) Gold, then I would keep the 6V6's in a heartbeat. They sounded very close to the 6L6's, but with a little more chime.


Gotta go. Gotta put it back together. Only have 1 hour left before it's too late to play! :lol: