Cutting through the mix????

[sadowsky13]

Hey folks I am new here and just recently got a Mesa Boogie Roadster Head and 2x12 matching cab. I have gone through the manual and tried some of the settings listed. I find that alone the amp has some great tones but when I played at my band practice last night I found it was hard to cut through the mix without raising the presence and treble quite high. These settings didn't really give me the tone I wanted. Just wondering is it the amp or do you guys have some tricks or methods of keeping your tone and cutting through the mix. I play a Les paul standard, eric clapton Custom Shop Strat, and a telecaster with Bigsby which has vintage noiseless pickups.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

PS: IT seems like Mesa like to have lots of bass in their amps.

 

[camsna]

A good by-yourself sound rarely translates into a good-with-the-band sound.

A good with-the-band sound will usually sound harsh all by itself. I'd recommend dialing up a LITTLE presence, a bit of treble, and a bit more mids. See how you like it!

 

[nitrous2400]

boost your mids and take out sum bass, dial sum more presence and a tad more highs... you should notice a change when you dial in more mids and take out the bass, but rarely will an amp sound good by itself and in a band situation without a bit of tweeking

 

[jdurso]

Hey folks I am new here and just recently got a Mesa Boogie Roadster Head and 2x12 matching cab. I have gone through the manual and tried some of the settings listed. I find that alone the amp has some great tones but when I played at my band practice last night I found it was hard to cut through the mix without raising the presence and treble quite high. These settings didn't really give me the tone I wanted. Just wondering is it the amp or do you guys have some tricks or methods of keeping your tone and cutting through the mix. I play a Les paul standard, eric clapton Custom Shop Strat, and a telecaster with Bigsby which has vintage noiseless pickups.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

PS: IT seems like Mesa like to have lots of bass in their amps.

when you say cut do you eman on leads and solos or just all the time? i'm more of a rhythm player so i always found mesa to sit right in a band mix for me. my lead guitarist always found it hard to make his leads and solos pop out with a recto so thats why he started using marshalls and then eventually a line 6 head which actually cut and mixed well together but sounded like *** by itself.

Anywho if your concerned with leads and solos cutting i would recommend either a clean boost, OD or EQ pedal infront of your amp. Basically setup your amp as you like it when alone and for the extra cut for solos in a band setting add the additional boost with a bit of treble added so it cuts the way you wnat it to. Other than that you may want to look into a stiletto or the mark IV as those cut way better than rectos do without any pedals.

 

[Herbie the Rad Dorklift]

Mids and less gain!

 

[sadowsky13]

Hey folks I am new here and just recently got a Mesa Boogie Roadster Head and 2x12 matching cab. I have gone through the manual and tried some of the settings listed. I find that alone the amp has some great tones but when I played at my band practice last night I found it was hard to cut through the mix without raising the presence and treble quite high. These settings didn't really give me the tone I wanted. Just wondering is it the amp or do you guys have some tricks or methods of keeping your tone and cutting through the mix. I play a Les paul standard, eric clapton Custom Shop Strat, and a telecaster with Bigsby which has vintage noiseless pickups.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

PS: IT seems like Mesa like to have lots of bass in their amps.

when you say cut do you eman on leads and solos or just all the time? i'm more of a rhythm player so i always found mesa to sit right in a band mix for me. my lead guitarist always found it hard to make his leads and solos pop out with a recto so thats why he started using marshalls and then eventually a line 6 head which actually cut and mixed well together but sounded like *** by itself.

Anywho if your concerned with leads and solos cutting i would recommend either a clean boost, OD or EQ pedal infront of your amp. Basically setup your amp as you like it when alone and for the extra cut for solos in a band setting add the additional boost with a bit of treble added so it cuts the way you wnat it to. Other than that you may want to look into a stiletto or the mark IV as those cut way better than rectos do without any pedals.

Not really for leads more so in the grand mix of things when playing with the other guitar player who plays through a vox AC30 with an OCD overdrive.

Thanks for the reply's so far, I just foudn after I used the presets in the book they seemed to sound rather muddy in a band mix.

 

[jdurso]

Hey folks I am new here and just recently got a Mesa Boogie Roadster Head and 2x12 matching cab. I have gone through the manual and tried some of the settings listed. I find that alone the amp has some great tones but when I played at my band practice last night I found it was hard to cut through the mix without raising the presence and treble quite high. These settings didn't really give me the tone I wanted. Just wondering is it the amp or do you guys have some tricks or methods of keeping your tone and cutting through the mix. I play a Les paul standard, eric clapton Custom Shop Strat, and a telecaster with Bigsby which has vintage noiseless pickups.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

PS: IT seems like Mesa like to have lots of bass in their amps.

when you say cut do you eman on leads and solos or just all the time? i'm more of a rhythm player so i always found mesa to sit right in a band mix for me. my lead guitarist always found it hard to make his leads and solos pop out with a recto so thats why he started using marshalls and then eventually a line 6 head which actually cut and mixed well together but sounded like *** by itself.

Anywho if your concerned with leads and solos cutting i would recommend either a clean boost, OD or EQ pedal infront of your amp. Basically setup your amp as you like it when alone and for the extra cut for solos in a band setting add the additional boost with a bit of treble added so it cuts the way you wnat it to. Other than that you may want to look into a stiletto or the mark IV as those cut way better than rectos do without any pedals.

Not really for leads more so in the grand mix of things when playing with the other guitar player who plays through a vox AC30 with an OCD overdrive.

Thanks for the reply's so far, I just foudn after I used the presets in the book they seemed to sound rather muddy in a band mix.

yeah well the treble in that AC30 doesnt help you. i sware you can dial out all of the trble in that bad boy and it still can cut. you may just wnat an eq in the loop that will balance the cut you need with the right tone. Also is it the mix you hear playing or is it the mix from the audience perspective? I always found when "i couldnt hear myself" that it was because i was standing too **** close to my stuff but when i walked back 20 feet the mix was perfect.

 

[sadowsky13]

when you say cut do you eman on leads and solos or just all the time? i'm more of a rhythm player so i always found mesa to sit right in a band mix for me. my lead guitarist always found it hard to make his leads and solos pop out with a recto so thats why he started using marshalls and then eventually a line 6 head which actually cut and mixed well together but sounded like *** by itself.

Anywho if your concerned with leads and solos cutting i would recommend either a clean boost, OD or EQ pedal infront of your amp. Basically setup your amp as you like it when alone and for the extra cut for solos in a band setting add the additional boost with a bit of treble added so it cuts the way you wnat it to. Other than that you may want to look into a stiletto or the mark IV as those cut way better than rectos do without any pedals.

Not really for leads more so in the grand mix of things when playing with the other guitar player who plays through a vox AC30 with an OCD overdrive.

Thanks for the reply's so far, I just foudn after I used the presets in the book they seemed to sound rather muddy in a band mix.

yeah well the treble in that AC30 doesnt help you. i sware you can dial out all of the trble in that bad boy and it still can cut. you may just wnat an eq in the loop that will balance the cut you need with the right tone. Also is it the mix you hear playing or is it the mix from the audience perspective? I always found when "i couldnt hear myself" that it was because i was standing too **** close to my stuff but when i walked back 20 feet the mix was perfect.

Well right now it is the mix at band practice. I just got the amp two days ago and am still getting used to it. Have a gig in a couple of weeks so will find out more then.

I see you are usuing a roadster head and 2x12 cab as well, any issues with it being too bassy for you and what type of music do you play with it?/

Thanks in advance.

 

[MrBoggles]

Question? If you find it hard to cut through. where are you standing in relation to the amp??
If your right in front of it you won't hear **** unless you use a double stack. What does the drummer say can he hear it ok?

I had a similar problem and kept turning up but my drummer got it all. :shock:
I made a long speaker cable and put the cab on the other side of the room next to the drummer.
keep the head on a table next to me for adjustments. and i cut through just fine also helps with home recording having the cab in another room.
In terms of settings i always like to start with everything at 12o'clock and go from there. alternativly everything on 0 and add from there. But try the long speaker cable. let me know

 

[BMarchant]

This is not directed at anyone, its just my opinion from playing live 5 nights a week for 20 years..... Granted, it was the 1980s and 90s but tone is tone.........

Number one reason is not enough mids. #2- everyone plays with way too much gain because its easy to play.....

Case in point. Picture AC/DCs song, "Girls got Rhythm". Now, go dial in the amount of gain you think is right for that song. Then go listen to the song. You will have three times as much gain as the actual song has. Same thing with "Bark at the Moon" by Ozzy. Jakes amps have no gain at all. I know, old guy music, and your playing DEATH METAL, right!!! Just hear me out for a minute....

Now go listen to Creed "Torn", or Alice N Chains "Them Bones". You'll do the same thing.. Lack of midrange and too much gain equals the cymbals eat up your sound because your sharing the same frequencies, all highs. Everybody does it because its easy to play guitar with the mids scooped out. Boogie even states it in the manual about if you add mids, its harder to pick clean. Add mids and all of a sudden you find out how bad your playing technique really is.

I cringe when I'm in a store and some kid is playing on a amp with the mids scooped doing sweeps. You want to impress me, play fast on a acoustic. Then add some gain.

My rig eats other guitar players tone if they have too much gain and scooped mids. We have had two different players sit in with there own rigs, and once I start to play, there guitar goes away. Yet there volume is twice as loud as I am.

I'm using a Stiletto and a Dual Recto so its not the amps, its how its set. My high end and presence are not turned up much at all. My mids on both are at 2 o'clock. Highs are at 11 o'clock. Bass is at 3 o'clock. Gains are between 12 and 1 o'clock. I'm also using power tubes that don't break up as quickly, but thats another topic.

Always use less gain then you want to, and you'll cut through fine.

Bmarchant

 

[mrd]

This is not directed at anyone, its just my opinion from playing live 5 nights a week for 20 years..... Granted, it was the 1980s and 90s but tone is tone.........

Number one reason is not enough mids. #2- everyone plays with way too much gain because its easy to play.....

Case in point. Picture AC/DCs song, "Girls got Rhythm". Now, go dial in the amount of gain you think is right for that song. Then go listen to the song. You will have three times as much gain as the actual song has. Same thing with "Bark at the Moon" by Ozzy. Jakes amps have no gain at all. I know, old guy music, and your playing DEATH METAL, right!!! Just hear me out for a minute....

Now go listen to Creed "Torn", or Alice N Chains "Them Bones". You'll do the same thing.. Lack of midrange and too much gain equals the cymbals eat up your sound because your sharing the same frequencies, all highs. Everybody does it because its easy to play guitar with the mids scooped out. Boogie even states it in the manual about if you add mids, its harder to pick clean. Add mids and all of a sudden you find out how bad your playing technique really is.

I cringe when I'm in a store and some kid is playing on a amp with the mids scooped doing sweeps. You want to impress me, play fast on a acoustic. Then add some gain.

My rig eats other guitar players tone if they have too much gain and scooped mids. We have had two different players sit in with there own rigs, and once I start to play, there guitar goes away. Yet there volume is twice as loud as I am.

I'm using a Stiletto and a Dual Recto so its not the amps, its how its set. My high end and presence are not turned up much at all. My mids on both are at 2 o'clock. Highs are at 11 o'clock. Bass is at 3 o'clock. Gains are between 12 and 1 o'clock. I'm also using power tubes that don't break up as quickly, but thats another topic.

Always use less gain then you want to, and you'll cut through fine.

Bmarchant

This man speaks the truth. I can't say I have 20 years of live gigging under my belt, but midrange is the "cut-through" knob. On Mesa amps, the more gain you apply, the LESS effective every other knob is on the amp, same goes for treble. Keep them reasonable. Hell, I play with my mids cranked, it sounds fuckin' great. Granted, this isn't in a band situation, but on it's own it sounds fine. A lot of people are afraid to touch the mid knob or they always just turn it off.. the guitar is a MID RANGE INSTRUMENT. Bass and treble knobs are just for nuances, presence and harmonic content. The mid knob is the meat of your tone, so use it wisely.

 

[nomad100hd]

I use my GEQ for a mid boost for solo's without boosting volume if i'm not carefull i drowned everyone out!. I also would suggest a sonic stomp it will give your guitar more bite, clarity, and punch without making it thin, muddy or scooped.

One more thing how is your bassist eq'ed bassist like to turn up way to loud an usually don't know how to eq there bass.

 

[coppa]

Less that half way on the gain. less that 1/4 bass. mids and trebble at 1/2 at least. it will cut.

Rectos have way too much of everything just in case you want it so dont be afraid to turn down your gain and bass its got lots more to spare

 

[fishyfishfish]

Get a fat crunchy rhythm sound on the orange channel, not a lot of gain, kind of mid heavy, then make a lead channel out of the red channel 4.
I had the same kind of problem when I got my Dual Rec. Listened to the play back tapes and what sounded good to me at the time sounded like gained out mush, almost but not quite as bad as 22 minutes at G.C. Just takes some time twisting knobs.

 

[jdurso]

Well right now it is the mix at band practice. I just got the amp two days ago and am still getting used to it. Have a gig in a couple of weeks so will find out more then.

I see you are usuing a roadster head and 2x12 cab as well, any issues with it being too bassy for you and what type of music do you play with it?/

Thanks in advance.

well i have two 2x12 cabs each with their own tone which when put together for Voltron ok that was lame but the v30s in the roadster cab compliment the eminence legends in the basson very well. The Basson has a very very tight bass responce whereas the mesa cab is a little looser. together they sound amazing with the voicings of the roadster.

I think most rectifiers can sound bassy but its all in how you dial them in with the rest of your gear. What cab, guitar, pickups are you using? aslo i use an eq in the loop to dial the right amount of bass and dial out the frequencies that make things sound loose and buzzy. i would def. recommend an eq in the loop to refine your tone and dial out the frequencies you dont want. also dont dial in too much bass on the amp because past 12 oclock because i find (at least with my setup) that things become a lot darker and a little looser with bass past 12.

 

[jdurso]

I use my GEQ for a mid boost for solo's without boosting volume if i'm not carefull i drowned everyone out!. I also would suggest a sonic stomp it will give your guitar more bite, clarity, and punch without making it thin, muddy or scooped.

One more thing how is your bassist eq'ed bassist like to turn up way to loud an usually don't know how to eq there bass.

just out of curiosity what exactly is the sonic maximizer? is it a compressor? an eq? both? or is it sprinkled with pixie dust? i'm very intrigued by them because everyone ive talked to that owns one swears by them.

also do you have it infront of the amp or in the loop? does it work in either spot?

 

[sadowsky13]

Question? If you find it hard to cut through. where are you standing in relation to the amp??
If your right in front of it you won't hear sh!t unless you use a double stack. What does the drummer say can he hear it ok?

I had a similar problem and kept turning up but my drummer got it all. :shock:
I made a long speaker cable and put the cab on the other side of the room next to the drummer.
keep the head on a table next to me for adjustments. and i cut through just fine also helps with home recording having the cab in another room.
In terms of settings i always like to start with everything at 12o'clock and go from there. alternativly everything on 0 and add from there. But try the long speaker cable. let me know

Thanks I will see how that works, I was standing back about 10 feet with the other guitarist at the time.

 

[jab]

I put the Sonic Maximizer last in my chain (I believe the manual suggests it). Hard to describe, but it cleans up your tone for a crisper and clearer bass/treble. The 2 knobs give you more or less bass/treble, but at the same time "cleans" it up and puts a little life into your sound - a little skip in its step. It absolutely shines on acoustic instruments and bass, and it's so great in a PA that we bought one so our vocals and mic'd instruments get maximized (only $130 and provides a HUGE upgrade in PA sound quality).

It also sounds excellent on clean channel guitar, and lastly on distorted guitar. Distortion tends to mask what the Sonic Maximizer can do, but my tone still sounds a bit better with it so I leave it on all of the time. I do the on/off/on/off game with myself and the Maximizer wins.

 

[sadowsky13]

Well right now it is the mix at band practice. I just got the amp two days ago and am still getting used to it. Have a gig in a couple of weeks so will find out more then.

I see you are usuing a roadster head and 2x12 cab as well, any issues with it being too bassy for you and what type of music do you play with it?/

Thanks in advance.

What cab, guitar, pickups are you using?

A gibson Les paul standard, fender telecaster with noiseless pickups, Eric Clapton Custom shop strat, my cab in the roadster 2x12 cab.

 

[Nitrobattery]

It's true, running your gain super high and then wondering why you're not cutting through is a problem that a lot of rock an metal guitarists have. I've had a two channel recto, a three channel recto, and now a roadster (as well as a slew of other boogies, marshalls, engl etc) and I've found that using the right tubes and running your gain fairly low is really the key. I do what a lot of metal guitarists do, I run my gain pretty low on the amp, and then boost the front of the head with an overdrive pedal. It gives me the focused clarity and projection that I need, as well as giving me what sounds like a pretty over the top metal tone. I'm running Tung-Sol EL34b's in the power section and a mix of Tung-Sol and Groove Tube preamp tubes. I'm bypassing the loop, running it at 100 watts, and have it set to recto tracking. My channel 4 settings are

Modern

Volume 11 o'clock
Bass 12 o'clock
Mids between 11 and 12 o'clock
Treble 2 o'clock
Presence 1 o'clock
Gain 12 o'clock

Then I have my Maxon OD808 with the gain almost all of the way down, and the level almost all of the way up. The tone knob is set at noon. I'm running dual EMG 85's in my Ibanez RGA's and it sounds awesome. Lots of clarity, lots of muscle, lots of low end, bust most importantly, lots of warmth. You CAN play super heavy stuff and have your guitar not sound like a buzzsaw.

Anyway, that's what works for me.