convince me to not dump my ED...

[theweatherman]

No band in the next 6 years for me as i am back in college. im living in an apt and cant crank my ED past TV levels. now, this amp as you all know, is the best, hands down. i love the tone when it is cranked. but at low volumes it just doesnt have enough gain and is too dark and vintage sounding. im thinking of going back to a stiletto ace which at low volumes (if i remember correctly) sounded really good. is there another option for me? i really wanna keep the ED. are there other options that ive overlooked? i dont like using pedals, hate the feel of solid state stuff and the hotplate idea seems like it doesn't do much...HELP!

thanks, fellow 'Dyner

 

[Assumer]

If you sell, the next day you will be asked to replace your favorite guitar player in your favorite band. They of course will ask if you have an ED and you will say "no I sold it". They will of course excuse themselves and find someone else.

 

[theweatherman]

ha, ya brian baker of bad religion is getting pretty old...

 

[Birdy]

THD Hotplate.
I use mine quite a bit late at nite.
You'll regret selling the amp I think.

 

[YellowJacket]

No band in the next 6 years for me as i am back in college. im living in an apt and cant crank my ED past TV levels. now, this amp as you all know, is the best, hands down. i love the tone when it is cranked. but at low volumes it just doesnt have enough gain and is too dark and vintage sounding. im thinking of going back to a stiletto ace which at low volumes (if i remember correctly) sounded really good. is there another option for me? i really wanna keep the ED. are there other options that ive overlooked? i dont like using pedals, hate the feel of solid state stuff and the hotplate idea seems like it doesn't do much...HELP!

thanks, fellow 'Dyner

Well, I think I am more qualified than most to comment on this since I have been in school for the last six years with no band. First of all, I don't think a proper tube amp exists that sounds great at bedroom levels. I mean they all sound better than solid state at practice levels but cranking them up for practicing always presents a big issue. Part of the problem is that c90s and v30s are really tight speakers so they sound like they are working at much louder volumes than say a G12m (greenback) or a G12H - 30. So my solution was to buy a pair of Yellow Jackets to cut the wattage of my Dual down to around 15watts. That helped a bit but what did more was building my 2 x 12 cabinet with a G12m Heritage and a v30. This cab sounds great at really low volumes so it helped me retain good tone until the amp is barely working. I know changing speakers in a 2 x 12 combo is probably not a workable solution but you can try the yellow jackets. As far as I understand, they do have a model to work with Simulclass. Depending on how much crap you want to haul, you can get a 1 x 12 combo with a greenback in it . . .
That being said, I am suitably impressed with how the dyne I tried sounded at bedroom volumes. If it is slightly undergained, why not run a transparent boost to thicken things up, just for the sake of practice? You could also purchase a good quality stomp box or boutique tube distortion pedal, something to get saturated gain tones at low volumes, just as a bandaid solution.
At any rate, I feel your frustration as I have endured it. Basically, you feel like you have an Aston Martin DB9 and you're stuck driving through school zones 24/7. When you can't drive over 20mph EVER, you really wonder why you bought a damned car that does 0 - 60 in under 4 seconds. I mean the volume issue (Never getting a good tone at low volumes) eventually frustrated me to the point I just quit playing guitar altogether for an entire year. Seriously, in my first year of Masters I pulled out my Gibson twice during the whole eight month school term and each time, the res people showed up at my door!! Not cool. Through all that, I didn't sell any of my gear even though I thought about it. I couldn't shake the feeling that one day, I would need it again. Last year I taught guitar so I basically HAD to practice at least twice a week so I wouldn't embarrass myself in front of my students. I ended up buying a Peavey rage 158 and running that into a Peavey 1 x 12 equipped with a G12m Greenback. This rig played double duty as both a practice rig and as an amp for teaching so students didn't have to cart theirs across the city. This summer, I have been putting a solid hour to hour and a half in about four or five days out of the week and been making substantial progress. Honestly, most of the work I do is clean technique work to build chops. A break is a chance to work on building speed and dexterity instead of simply trying to 'sound good', something I have found ruins technique and slows progress.

I guess my two cents of wisdom are this. 1) people have practice rigs because gig rigs never sound their best quiet. Drummers are loud SOBs so guitar manufacturers have no motivation to make something that sounds awesome at low volumes.
2) Guitarists are picky but not practicing for a whole year because the amp can't be turned up loud enough is absolute BS. As much as you hate solid state, pedals, etc, you are going to have to come up with some sort of a compromise to keep your chops up.

I suggest you A/B a Stiletto Deuce HONESTLY next to the 'Dyne. Not at bedroom levels, because these aren't bedroom level amps. Just crank them both up good and loud and pick the one you like best. I'm sure you WILL gig again!

 

[Laskyman]

I suggest you A/B a Stiletto Deuce HONESTLY next to the 'Dyne. Not at bedroom levels, because these aren't bedroom level amps

This is a good bit of advice- but I think at LOW volumes the Stiletto sounds better. However, that is the ABSOLUTE ONLY thing a stiletto will ever do better than the Dyne- I know because I came from a stiletto Deuce.....you turn up a Stiletto next to a turned up Dyne- reasonable stage monitoring levels- and I would bet you lose your interest in the stiletto....just saying..

 

[MBJunkie]

Let me suggest that you revisit the V as well since you are considering "or I should say reconsidering" amps that you have previously retired.

Sell the ED, buy a MkV combo or head, install EL34's if you wish (sounds like you prefer the british vibe), set to Full Power or Variac, set each channel to 10W, and optionally use the GEQ or PEQ in each channel to your taste. I believe that you will likely find the V to be a very nice amp.

Some will say "hogwash", I Mark amp should be pushed to the limit....max power per channel and full power on the power amp. True enough, that sounds great as well, but I play may V at 10W per channel during band practice and often gigs with excellent results.

Be sure to give all modes a chance in each channel playing your guitar(s). My favorites are "Fat and Tweed" in Ch1, Crunch in Channel 2 and All 3 modes in Channel 3 (depending on what I am after).

While balancing the channel volumes with the master volume, I can achieve outstanding sounds in the 10W setting of each channel at bedroom level or practice / gigging levels FWIW.

One of the greatest things about the V is that you can have your cake and eat it too!

 

[primal]

I think I get great ED tones at bedroom volumes. Though I do agree with one of the other posters. The speakers do hamper the sound at low volumes.

And you never know when you may be playing in another band.

If you are dead set on selling it for something strictly so it can do bedroom volume and sound killer, rather then a stilletto, get yourself an Axe FX Standard (or the ultra if you are feeling froggy). It is in the same price range as a Stilleto. It doesn't have an ED model, but the bogner shiva sounds pretty **** close. Plus having 50+ classic amps at your fingertips aint to shabby either. Plus, these guys seem to come up with firmware updates every few months that have brand new classic amp models. It's like firmware update day is new amp day.

Or if you would rather save some money, I have heard some very impressive clips from the 11rack as well. Not nearly as flexible as the Axe FX and not as many models, but killer none the less and less expensive. Not sure how they are on firmware updates either.

I just think at bedroom volume you will have the same problem with the Stilletto you have with the ED.

 

[theweatherman]

THD Hotplate.
I use mine quite a bit late at nite.
You'll regret selling the amp I think.

How much does the hotplate help? like how much can you turn up the master and be relatively quiet with the hotplate?

 

[theweatherman]

No band in the next 6 years for me as i am back in college. im living in an apt and cant crank my ED past TV levels. now, this amp as you all know, is the best, hands down. i love the tone when it is cranked. but at low volumes it just doesnt have enough gain and is too dark and vintage sounding. im thinking of going back to a stiletto ace which at low volumes (if i remember correctly) sounded really good. is there another option for me? i really wanna keep the ED. are there other options that ive overlooked? i dont like using pedals, hate the feel of solid state stuff and the hotplate idea seems like it doesn't do much...HELP!

thanks, fellow 'Dyner

Well, I think I am more qualified than most to comment on this since I have been in school for the last six years with no band. First of all, I don't think a proper tube amp exists that sounds great at bedroom levels. I mean they all sound better than solid state at practice levels but cranking them up for practicing always presents a big issue. Part of the problem is that c90s and v30s are really tight speakers so they sound like they are working at much louder volumes than say a G12m (greenback) or a G12H - 30. So my solution was to buy a pair of Yellow Jackets to cut the wattage of my Dual down to around 15watts. That helped a bit but what did more was building my 2 x 12 cabinet with a G12m Heritage and a v30. This cab sounds great at really low volumes so it helped me retain good tone until the amp is barely working. I know changing speakers in a 2 x 12 combo is probably not a workable solution but you can try the yellow jackets. As far as I understand, they do have a model to work with Simulclass. Depending on how much crap you want to haul, you can get a 1 x 12 combo with a greenback in it . . .
That being said, I am suitably impressed with how the dyne I tried sounded at bedroom volumes. If it is slightly undergained, why not run a transparent boost to thicken things up, just for the sake of practice? You could also purchase a good quality stomp box or boutique tube distortion pedal, something to get saturated gain tones at low volumes, just as a bandaid solution.
At any rate, I feel your frustration as I have endured it. Basically, you feel like you have an Aston Martin DB9 and you're stuck driving through school zones 24/7. When you can't drive over 20mph EVER, you really wonder why you bought a damned car that does 0 - 60 in under 4 seconds. I mean the volume issue (Never getting a good tone at low volumes) eventually frustrated me to the point I just quit playing guitar altogether for an entire year. Seriously, in my first year of Masters I pulled out my Gibson twice during the whole eight month school term and each time, the res people showed up at my door!! Not cool. Through all that, I didn't sell any of my gear even though I thought about it. I couldn't shake the feeling that one day, I would need it again. Last year I taught guitar so I basically HAD to practice at least twice a week so I wouldn't embarrass myself in front of my students. I ended up buying a Peavey rage 158 and running that into a Peavey 1 x 12 equipped with a G12m Greenback. This rig played double duty as both a practice rig and as an amp for teaching so students didn't have to cart theirs across the city. This summer, I have been putting a solid hour to hour and a half in about four or five days out of the week and been making substantial progress. Honestly, most of the work I do is clean technique work to build chops. A break is a chance to work on building speed and dexterity instead of simply trying to 'sound good', something I have found ruins technique and slows progress.

I guess my two cents of wisdom are this. 1) people have practice rigs because gig rigs never sound their best quiet. Drummers are loud SOBs so guitar manufacturers have no motivation to make something that sounds awesome at low volumes.
2) Guitarists are picky but not practicing for a whole year because the amp can't be turned up loud enough is absolute BS. As much as you hate solid state, pedals, etc, you are going to have to come up with some sort of a compromise to keep your chops up.

I suggest you A/B a Stiletto Deuce HONESTLY next to the 'Dyne. Not at bedroom levels, because these aren't bedroom level amps. Just crank them both up good and loud and pick the one you like best. I'm sure you WILL gig again!

very true. I really should just be focusing on becoming a better player. its hard to practice though if your not happy with your tone. cranked there is no contest, ED wins over the stiletto. and yes, it is very frustrating having such a well built high performance amplifier that i can barely open up! its like having a fighter jet for a car and you can only taxi up and down your street! ahhhhhh! i should look into some pedals though, or maybe hotter pups

 

[theweatherman]

Let me suggest that you revisit the V as well since you are considering "or I should say reconsidering" amps that you have previously retired.

Sell the ED, buy a MkV combo or head, install EL34's if you wish (sounds like you prefer the british vibe), set to Full Power or Variac, set each channel to 10W, and optionally use the GEQ or PEQ in each channel to your taste. I believe that you will likely find the V to be a very nice amp.

Some will say "hogwash", I Mark amp should be pushed to the limit....max power per channel and full power on the power amp. True enough, that sounds great as well, but I play may V at 10W per channel during band practice and often gigs with excellent results.

Be sure to give all modes a chance in each channel playing your guitar(s). My favorites are "Fat and Tweed" in Ch1, Crunch in Channel 2 and All 3 modes in Channel 3 (depending on what I am after).

While balancing the channel volumes with the master volume, I can achieve outstanding sounds in the 10W setting of each channel at bedroom level or practice / gigging levels FWIW.

One of the greatest things about the V is that you can have your cake and eat it too!

Ya ive been thinking about the mark v also. great amp. but almost too much tweaking available. thats why i got rid of it. i was tweaking constantly cause there are so many good tones on tap... i never actually practiced! plus in the band situation, the ED sounded better for me. they are so expensive too. the stiletto ace head can be picked up used for around $900 and the ED used prices are around $1100. if there was a MkV for $1100 id pick it up no questions. i just want the stiletto for my college yrs and then get another ED after and drop the stiletto. so hard to decide...

 

[theweatherman]

I think I get great ED tones at bedroom volumes. Though I do agree with one of the other posters. The speakers do hamper the sound at low volumes.

And you never know when you may be playing in another band.

If you are dead set on selling it for something strictly so it can do bedroom volume and sound killer, rather then a stilletto, get yourself an Axe FX Standard (or the ultra if you are feeling froggy). It is in the same price range as a Stilleto. It doesn't have an ED model, but the bogner shiva sounds pretty **** close. Plus having 50+ classic amps at your fingertips aint to shabby either. Plus, these guys seem to come up with firmware updates every few months that have brand new classic amp models. It's like firmware update day is new amp day.

Or if you would rather save some money, I have heard some very impressive clips from the 11rack as well. Not nearly as flexible as the Axe FX and not as many models, but killer none the less and less expensive. Not sure how they are on firmware updates either.

I just think at bedroom volume you will have the same problem with the Stilletto you have with the ED.

How does the axe fx feel? i hate the dry fake computerized sound of solid state stuff, nothing feels better than tubes. im skeptical about that axe fx, if its so accurate in both tone and feel, why are people still buying tube amps and not clamoring over each other to get an axefx??

 

[YellowJacket]

Wait, are you running an ED head or the combo? Do you have a cab for it?

One strong suggestion: Equip a good sounding 2 x 12 with Celestion G12m Greenbacks. You can running your amp at 45watts through the resultant 50watt cab which will have a lower sensitivity than v30s. This means you can get more headroom. Also, these speakers sound warm and open at much lower volumes so you at least don't have to deal with speaker constipation. If you aren't going to be playing live much, this should help a lot. You can use a hotplate with this. Hotplates have several power soaking settings. -4 db, -8db, -12db, -16db, and then 'load'. As far as I understand, each progressive setting sucks more volume and 'tone'. I would assume the device is the most effective at the -4 and -8db settings but you can get -3db just by swapping to a low sensitivity speaker like a greenback. If you ran the amp at 45watts instead of 90, used low sensitivity speakers, and hit -8db on the Hotplate, I think you'd be getting into reasonable practice levels. You'd have to try it . . . I personally thought the Electra Dyne sounded great at low volumes but the gain saturation does become a problem. I think a transparent boost is the best bandaid solution for that.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Keep the ED and pick up a low powered amp. I'd look at the Marshall Mode 5 (or whatever it's called), Mesa TransAtlantic, or one of those little Fender amps (depending on your budget).

The problem with larger tube amps is the bottom end they push. It tends to travel through buildings, so you'll fnid that although your amp is running really quiet the guy two floors down can still hear it.

The little 5w single ended tube amps can't push very much bottom end. Same deal with a Mark V in 10w mode with the variac on.


Another suggestion is to pick up a Boss GE-7 and put it in the loop. Most tube amps sound like **** at low volumes because they're pushing a lot of mids and thus sound thin. Use the GE-7 to boost the top and bottom while scooping out some of the mids. It'll give you that thicker sound at less than earbleed levels.

I have a Hotplate that I always keep handy, but in general Mesa's tend to sound better turned down and with the EQ compensated for than they do attenuated.

 

[tubby_cosmos]

So, my sense is that you're considering dumping the ED because you can't get a good sound at low volume levels, not because you would end up with a little extra pocket money. If that's the case, and money is not a huge issue, keep the ED and try a few boost/OD pedals through it.

I just spent the last 8 months living in an apartment with paper thin walls - I couldn't even have my computer speaker subwoofer connected after dark, because I was getting noise complaints for it. However, I was able to play through my ED during the day with it on a chair, on the 45W setting, and with my H&K Tube Factor helping to boost the gain. Putting the amp on a chair really helped to stop the noise from bleeding into other people's rooms. Perhaps it's just personal taste, but I've never had a problem with the ED's low volume sounds.

Bottom line, though, if you bought your ED new, keep it. No point in taking a loss ($$) on the amp of your dreams just because it doesn't sound fabulous at bedroom volumes. If you were gigging before you started school, you'll find time to gig after you're through with school. Who knows, you might even go to a few jams while you're at school (that's what I'm hoping at least - starting med school in the fall).

If pedals or hot plates don't help, I personally would look into computer software. Amplitube has gotten pretty good reviews on forums I've been. If you absolutely have to switch to something else, the Axe FX my lead guitarist plays through sounds fabulous, but it lacks that natural feel that a tube amp has. There's something just a bit artificial about being able to tweak so many settings and add so many studio effects at low volume. Sounds great at our gigs though (although I still like my ED sound better =P)

 

[MBJunkie]

Lots of good suggestions by many.....including keeping your ED.

I still own mine as well and do like the sounds I can achieve out of it.

I especially like the sound of it with an OCD set mildly in front of the amp. This really adds just the right amount of added sustain I am after in the blue and red modes for lead work, and with it disengaged these 2 modes become crunch monsters.

Best of luck whatever you decide!

 

[JOEY B.]

I especially like the sound of it with an OCD set mildly in front of the amp. This really adds just the right amount of added sustain I am after in the blue and red modes for lead work, and with it disengaged these 2 modes become crunch monsters.

With the gain trim set to clean and the OCD set mildly, those edge of breakup tones are amazing. On the 45 watt setting, EL-34's, and an 8 ohm speaker in the 4 ohm amp output, is Heaven. I have not heard the Axe FX in person, but it would take a face to face standoff in the clean and low gain modes to make me an advocate of the solid state modeler. The response to pick attack and compression that comes from power tubes is just as important to me as the tone. One day I will have to give it a try, until then I will be happy with my "space heaters". :wink:

 

[MBJunkie]

Nice post JOEY B. Yes, the OCD is a great addition to the ED plain and simple. However, neither of us are addressing the OP issue about playing at bedroom levels with our suggestion.

Personally, I don't particularly like the sounds out of the ED at bedroom levels even with the OCD in front of the amp. I am not complaining, I just don't think the ED was designed for great tones at really low volumes. If MB intended the ED to capture magic at bedroom levels, they would have also offered a 10W setting. Typically, I play my ED with the master set to at least 9-9:30 (which is quite loud with the channel volume set from 1-3) in all modes with or without the OCD in the front.

I am fortunate to not have to play at bedroom levels in my house. If I had owned an ED back in the days I was living in an apartment......I would have been evicted.

For those of you that are not limited to very low playing volumes......do yourself a favor.....go to your local music store with and ED and ask to plug in an OCD directly in front of the amp. If you haven't already tried this....do yourself a favor and I am sure you will see where Joey and I are coming from! :mrgreen:

 

[theweatherman]

Wait, are you running an ED head or the combo? Do you have a cab for it?

One strong suggestion: Equip a good sounding 2 x 12 with Celestion G12m Greenbacks. You can running your amp at 45watts through the resultant 50watt cab which will have a lower sensitivity than v30s. This means you can get more headroom. Also, these speakers sound warm and open at much lower volumes so you at least don't have to deal with speaker constipation. If you aren't going to be playing live much, this should help a lot. You can use a hotplate with this. Hotplates have several power soaking settings. -4 db, -8db, -12db, -16db, and then 'load'. As far as I understand, each progressive setting sucks more volume and 'tone'. I would assume the device is the most effective at the -4 and -8db settings but you can get -3db just by swapping to a low sensitivity speaker like a greenback. If you ran the amp at 45watts instead of 90, used low sensitivity speakers, and hit -8db on the Hotplate, I think you'd be getting into reasonable practice levels. You'd have to try it . . . I personally thought the Electra Dyne sounded great at low volumes but the gain saturation does become a problem. I think a transparent boost is the best bandaid solution for that.

I have the head and matching 2X12 ED cab with V30s. I like the brighter speakers paired with the ED, the greenbacks are too warm and vintage sounding. i mainly play rock. so any boosts you would recommend? seems the OCD is popular...i have a boss DS-1 and it colors the tone way too much.

 

[theweatherman]

Keep the ED and pick up a low powered amp. I'd look at the Marshall Mode 5 (or whatever it's called), Mesa TransAtlantic, or one of those little Fender amps (depending on your budget).

The problem with larger tube amps is the bottom end they push. It tends to travel through buildings, so you'll fnid that although your amp is running really quiet the guy two floors down can still hear it.

The little 5w single ended tube amps can't push very much bottom end. Same deal with a Mark V in 10w mode with the variac on.


Another suggestion is to pick up a Boss GE-7 and put it in the loop. Most tube amps sound like sh!t at low volumes because they're pushing a lot of mids and thus sound thin. Use the GE-7 to boost the top and bottom while scooping out some of the mids. It'll give you that thicker sound at less than earbleed levels.

I have a Hotplate that I always keep handy, but in general Mesa's tend to sound better turned down and with the EQ compensated for than they do attenuated.

great point, lower frequencies do travel further. maybe i should lift my amp off the ground. the mesa TA is an interesting option. i wish i could try one out. if it gets more saturated at lower levels than the ED that could be my ticket. they are expensive little amps though...