Considering the jump from Marshall to Mesa. . .

[Nazgul666]

A little background. My main influences in music have been Maiden, Priest, Dio, Ozzy etc. So I've always been a Marshall guy.

I have a JCM2000. I also play in a Black Sabbath Tribute band and I use my Laney GH100ti for that.

However, we are putting the Sabbath thing on hold for awhile in order to get that whole "writing and recording orignals that nobody wants to hear" thing out of our system. Anyway it turns out that the riffs I'm writing are a little heavier than my influences and my Marshall is really not cutting it. I have to do all sorts of stuff like boosting , eq in the loop etc. to get close to the sound I want.

I've been lurking around here and I was thinking Mesa might be right for me. The decision I'm faced with is basically Mark IV or Roadster. Although I don't really need pristine cleans so maybe a Daul Rec would do instead of the Roadster.

I don't really need supertight tracking but I don't want flab either. Also, coming out of Marshalls I'm a little intimidated by Mesa's eq structure.

What do you guys suggest I look at?

 

[ashjn]

Dual Rec has its own distinct sound and Mark IV is way more versatile. I would definitly pick up a Mesa to add to my collection if I were you. It depends if you want one to sound closer to your Marshall, or have its own distinct sound. The Stiletto would probably get you closest to a Marshall sound...

 

[oyster]

Don't be intimidated!
Roadster is a really great option, variety of tones is excellent given where you are coming from (Marshall).
I got the Roadster rather than the Dual Rec, because it is essentially a dual but with a lot more possibilities...for just a bit more dough it was worth it.
My 2c.

 

[confused]

Having owned both I can truly say the Roadster has a much sweeter clean channel than the Dual Rectifier.

The Orange and Red Channels don't hit as hard as the Dual but I feel they are more musical which more than makes up for it.

 

[Nazgul666]

When it comes to thick distortion tones, is there any difference between the dual rec and the Roadster?

Also, I'm listening to Symphony X as I type this. Does Mike Romeo use a dual rec in studio? I heard he does. This is a nice rhythm tone!

 

[confused]

This is what a found to be the case.

Dual Rectifier - More of a crushing feel.
Roadster - More of a liquid feel.

Or we could think of it as a Boxing Match.

Roadster

More agile and graceful than the Dual Rectifier.
This contender has a whole lot of heart.

Dual Rectifier

While not a graceful or agile as the Roadster.
This contender more than makes up for it with dirty tricks and a merciless attitude.

At the end of the day its still the Recto Sound but with a very slight diference.

 

[TheRazMeister]

I grew up on Michael Schenker and Gary Moore...both Marshall-ites. I bought a Mesa Rectoverb and absolutely love the gain channel. At low volumes it's not bad but cranked up it's a gain machine. The cleans are good not great but you've already eliminated that as a concern. I'd say get a DR or a Roadster....not sure why there seems to be this confusion, I thought the Roadster WAS a rectifier???

A little background. My main influences in music have been Maiden, Priest, Dio, Ozzy etc. So I've always been a Marshall guy.

I have a JCM2000. I also play in a Black Sabbath Tribute band and I use my Laney GH100ti for that.

However, we are putting the Sabbath thing on hold for awhile in order to get that whole "writing and recording orignals that nobody wants to hear" thing out of our system. Anyway it turns out that the riffs I'm writing are a little heavier than my influences and my Marshall is really not cutting it. I have to do all sorts of stuff like boosting , eq in the loop etc. to get close to the sound I want.

I've been lurking around here and I was thinking Mesa might be right for me. The decision I'm faced with is basically Mark IV or Roadster. Although I don't really need pristine cleans so maybe a Daul Rec would do instead of the Roadster.

I don't really need supertight tracking but I don't want flab either. Also, coming out of Marshalls I'm a little intimidated by Mesa's eq structure.

What do you guys suggest I look at?

 

[Nazgul666]

Well I'm new to Mesa but the confusion is basically that the Roadster is more money and since its basically a Dual Rec, I guess I'm trying to figure out should I pay more or not? The other annoying thing is that nobody around me has the Roadster. GC only has Recs. And there are no other dealers.

 

[TheRazMeister]

Hey Naz....I was more replying to the description of the gain sound of the Roadster vs the DR by "Confused"... I thought they were basically the same guts.

Well I'm new to Mesa but the confusion is basically that the Roadster is more money and since its basically a Dual Rec, I guess I'm trying to figure out should I pay more or not? The other annoying thing is that nobody around me has the Roadster. GC only has Recs. And there are no other dealers.

 

[Nazgul666]

Oh. Well I am confused because on Harmony Central, which is basically a forum of negativity, I was reading that the newer 3 channel dual recs don't sound as good as the older 2 channel ones, which don't sound as good as the rackmount, which is better than the Roadster which sounds better than the Road King, etc.

And as far as I knew, those are all dual recs and metal rhythm tones should all be comparable.

 

[TheRazMeister]

Get a Vox Valvetronix AD60VTX...you can get ANY sound from that 8)
(just kidding, although I LOVE the Valvetronix line)

Oh. Well I am confused because on Harmony Central, which is basically a forum of negativity, I was reading that the newer 3 channel dual recs don't sound as good as the older 2 channel ones, which don't sound as good as the rackmount, which is better than the Roadster which sounds better than the Road King, etc.

And as far as I knew, those are all dual recs and metal rhythm tones should all be comparable.

 

[siggy14]

To answer your question, not all rec's sound alike, they get there names from the fact that they have rectifier tubes. Dual Rec has 2 Rectifier tubes and hence the name dual Rec, a triple has 3 Rectifier tubes and that is why it is called a triple rec. Of course a single/rectoverb has no rectifier tubes, and it is an odity, go figure mesa would throw that in.

On the single, dual, triple, roadking, roadster, tremoverb, rectoverb the channels will all be voiced closley but they will have there slight differences.

I have owned alot of mesa's, 2 channel heads, 3 channel heads, tremoverb, roadking Ver1, rackmounts, and currently own a 2 channel dual head that was one of the first five ever made.

With that being said, if you are a marshall guy i would think the roadking, roadster or even a tremoverb will be more to your liking. Like people have said it is more liquid type gain, but still heavy. Out of the three the tremoverb has the less gain, where the roadster and roadking are identical from what i have heard. Also i dont believe they tweaked channel 3 or 4 on the new roadkings, so i believe it has the same distortion as version 1.

It is hard to explain the differences, i always said my dual rec's where darker sounding, probaly because they didnt have as much midrange presense as my roadking. And I think that is mostly what it comes down too, i think the roadkings have more mid's where on the Dual and triples they scoop them.

As to the 2 channel vs 3 channel, yes they do sound slightly difference, mostly on the moderm channel, the 2 channel sounds a bit more organic on the modern channel where on the 3 channel version it sounds more, well modern and more buzzy. I think this also has to do with the fact that the older 2 Channel Rec's have a bit more midrange then the newer 3 channels do. On a side note, unless you are putting these amps side by side, you probaly would never know the difference.

Personaly if you are using this for recording and have an amp with a good clean channel already that you can A/B while playing live, I would pick up an older 2 channel version, you can still get them between $900 and $1000 used.

If you go with a two channel retube it with some JJ's as you will never know how old the tubes you are getting with a used amp. Plus the JJ's do tigten up the amp if you get a hold of Bob at Eurotubes and tell him it is for a Rec and you want the bias hotter.

Also a great trick to reduce the flubbiness on the bottem end is keep the gain slightly over the half way mark and use a tube screamer/OD pedal to boost it.

I know yo uare probaly thinking doesnt the recto have enough gain, the answer is yes, but it gets flubbier as you turn it up, and that is where the pedal comes in, by driving those pre-amps hard, it tightens up the gain. Most people that use Rec's do this and it is just part of the experience and what makes them sound great.

Oh. Well I am confused because on Harmony Central, which is basically a forum of negativity, I was reading that the newer 3 channel dual recs don't sound as good as the older 2 channel ones, which don't sound as good as the rackmount, which is better than the Roadster which sounds better than the Road King, etc.

And as far as I knew, those are all dual recs and metal rhythm tones should all be comparable.

 

[TheRazMeister]

The Single Rectifier amplifiers use a silicon diode rectifier, as opposed to tube rectification...

Of course a single/rectoverb has no rectifier tubes, and it is an odity, go figure mesa would throw that in.

Oh. Well I am confused because on Harmony Central, which is basically a forum of negativity, I was reading that the newer 3 channel dual recs don't sound as good as the older 2 channel ones, which don't sound as good as the rackmount, which is better than the Roadster which sounds better than the Road King, etc.

And as far as I knew, those are all dual recs and metal rhythm tones should all be comparable.

 

[Russ]

Ok Nazgul666

I have been a Marshall guy for years. Since the JMP days though I tried my best to find an alternate solution to having to always run a Marshall. I finally went back to basics, lost the rack and went back to traditional heads and cabs. I currently own a JMP and an 800 along with one of the Lee Jackson creations (Ampeg VL).

In trying to get that heavier Mesa tone I found that there was again no escaping getting the real deal. I ended up going with a Mark IV because of its ability to stay tight and still have more gain than you would ever need. I still run an OD once in a while but it is only to step out a little.

I tried the Mesa lineup and found that if it were not for the loose feel of the Dual Rec I would have bought it first. The versatility of the Mark IV is the real key. It has a better clean than the Dual Rec and can get just about any tone you want except for the extreme end of the Dual Rec and the rectified tone (looser). I am sure that having played Marshall that you have tried the older rectified Marshalls but from your choice of the Laney I am assuming that you are ok with silicone diode rectifiers. The Dual Rec has that option but still feels looser than the Mark IV that has the diode rectification as its only choice. Before you make a decision be sure to try several speaker combinations and configurations especially the one that you will be using immediately.

I never felt that the 2000 could do what my 800 does in the way of raw tear your face off Metal, speed metal, and thrash metal nor could it do what my JMP does for classic rock, punk, early metal, blues, etc. For a more modern sound I have found that Mesa is really the only way to go. The newer Marshalls just do not keep up. They cannot get that definition that Mesa gets. I am not in any way putting your 2000 down but I am merely expressing my findings since the debut of the 2000. The 900 was a pretty feeble attempt also to try to keep up with Mesa.

The Mesa Mark III is one hell of an amp if you don't mind numerous footswitches. The Mark IV has a more simple approach though it has a much larger footswitch. The footswitch is in no way as large as the monster that comes with say a RK though. The Mark III is a little simpler to operate though it is not as versatile as the flagship Mark IV. The Mark IV is just simply the most versatile of the Mark Series amps.

Depending upon how heavy you want to get with your sounds I would say that the Mark IV is probably a good choice for you. If you want it looser and slightly heavier than that I would consider a Dual Rec. If you want to spend a lot I would say try the Road King. Being that you already have plenty of Marshall sound then I would just skip over the Stiletto.

I would say that because you want some tightness and no flab then the Mark IV would do you good. The eq is nothing to be intimidated by because you can bypass it if you want but that is when the amp really shines because it molds your sound. Think of it as your eq in the loop without having to have it in the loop. I know that as a 5 band eq it might seem a little feeble but it really isn't. I have used 7, 9, 10, and 12 band eqs that didn't sound as good. The nice thing is that it is integrated.

Go check out the Mesas somewhere that you can play them loud. You will get no real idea of what they can do unless you turn them up. Also do not forget that the Mark IV takes a while to get used to dialing in but is one hell of an amp. This means that you shouldn't be intimidated by the numerous dials, switches, and sliders. Take your time to work with it. Remember that Mesas are not like Marshalls. You cannot peg stuff because it will make you sound like crap. Also you cannot bury a setting either because it will cause you again to sound like crap. Every little touch of a knob adjusts your sound because of the sweep of the controls. With this in mind think of it being a precision type of control.

Mark IVs share some of the clean and R2 controls. Be aware of that. Also your channel gain and treble is where you start to dial your sound. Then the mids and bass. If your gain and treble are too high your mids and bass won't have much room to work. The fact that some of the knobs shift as you push or pull it really makes for a knob tweakers paradise. Start your eq setting as a natural v shape and adjust from there.

Good luck...

 

[Nazgul666]

Guys. These are awesome responses. Thanks for taking the time. Loose vs. tight is another consideration. I am starting to lean toward the rectifier series only because I'm digging the tone a little more. The loose bottom end doesn't seem to bother me and it sounds like a meaner amp to me. Don't get me wrong, I have heard some terrific Mark IV tones and it is probably a better amp but I keep coming back to the metal rectified Petrucci, Michael Romeo tone.

Unfortunately, for rectifiers, my GC only has the triple channel solo head and not the Roadster. The three channel dual recs are still good amps right?

 

[Nazgul666]

Sorry for the double post but I just got back form Guitar Center. I picked up a 3 channel Dual Rec with the Rectifier Cab. I just got home and plugged it in and while the tubes are warming up I figured I would jump on and thank you guys for the help. I looked throught the booklet briefly but if someone wants to just give me hint rerarding variac or full power and tube or silicon diode, I would appreciate it. Alright I can't wait any longer. . .I'm plugging in the Les Paul.

I'll be back. . .

 

[MesaENGR412]

haha awesome! Congrats man!

-AJH

 

[Gary K]

So Naz,

What do you think?

Are you finding your tone(s)?

-Gary K

 

[Nazgul666]

Well it is certainly different than my Marshall. I don't want to come on here after one day and say, "Oh my God, this is it! This is the tone I have wanted all these years," because you probably have heard that before.

But the bottom line is, this dual rec is a great metal amp. It takes me places that I can't get to with Marshall. I still have minor adjustments to make but I need no eq pedal, and no OD pedal. I mean, I can see how an OD might tighten it up but I actually NEEDED the OD pedal on my Marshall. So this is so nice to just plug into and get big fat power chords, great chunk and nice leads. I have been doing a lot of reading on these boards and I am definitely not as hung up on "smooth" leads as some people. If you can't get a singing sustained lead sound out of this amp something is wrong. IMO

The one disappointing thing that I have been reading is out of all the rectifier amps in all their different incarnations, my new three channel plain old dual rec seems to be the worst according to people in the boards. I also heard that at some clinics, Petrucci was using dual recs right off the rack from whatever guita store he was at and they sounded fantastic. So to me, this can't be that bad.

Anyway, I absolutely love it and I'm taking it to rehearsal tonight.

 

[TheRazMeister]

Naz.....don't listen to the naysayers. Worst is a relative term...When I tried the Dual Rec....it was overkill for me, plus I wanted a combo....so yes, it's worse for me than the ROV combo.
The biggest problem I see with these amps is that it seems like they come alive at louder volumes. My ROV was just plain overwhelming when I opened it up at a gig. At home, it's only really, really good
I'm fortunate that my Crate V32 is the other way around...great at low volumes and pretty good a gig levels.

The one disappointing thing that I have been reading is out of all the rectifier amps in all their different incarnations, my new three channel plain old dual rec seems to be the worst according to people in the boards. I also heard that at some clinics, Petrucci was using dual recs right off the rack from whatever guita store he was at and they sounded fantastic. So to me, this can't be that bad.

Anyway, I absolutely love it and I'm taking it to rehearsal tonight.