Coming Soon to a thread near you: Tube Shootout!

[Schmoog]

so, I was at a friend's garage sale today, and he's got this old stereo from like back in the 50's with the shelves and seperate speaker cabinet. I ask him how much he wants for it and he goes, if you can take it out of here, do it and dont worry about it, its been was my father's, and I got it from him when he died, and he never used it and neither did I, and I just want to be rid of it. so I pack the bitch in the back of my jeep wrangler, not an easy task cause its huge, and get on my way. after lugging it into my apartment I get curious and wonder what the electical's look like. so I pull the guts part out, and thats when my hands started to shake.....

I saw a PAIR of Made In USA Sylvania 6L6GB's in the power section, and a Sylvania 5U4GB tube rectifier. SWEET SCORE! then I noticed the preamp section of it is 4 12ax7's that have those metal tube covers. I took the cover off V1 and had to sit down. Mullard is what the tube said. pulled off the next one, also a Mullard, as well as the V3 and V4.

So, tomorrow I am gonna pick a song, probably something with clean and dirty, and record it a couple of different ways.

1: mesa SPAX7's and Svetlana Winged C's
2: mullards and winged C's
3: mullards and Sylvanias
4: spax7's and sylvanias

just to see the differences in tone. in the meantime, I am still GEEKING out about these tubes, so I thought I'd share.

 

[Restless Rocks]

Dude! Nice score. And you paid what? Zilch! Prepare to get your socks knocked off. But beware once you get bit by those mullards in your Mark you'll be ruined for all other tubes and that's the beginning of another expensive habit. :wink:

 

[Russ]

Do not toss that amp chassis. It has the makings for a great homebrew.

 

[Russ]

Be careful with those Sylvanias also. They might not be in spec for your amp. It would be a shame to kill your amp. It would be a shame to kill those Sylvanias too.

 

[Schmoog]

yeah I am gonna have to be real careful to make sure nothing blows. but I'm pretty positive everything will be fine. I am gonna take em to my amp tech today to be tested and see where they are at life wise, if they really were used like the guy said, they might as well be new in box. they are just standard Sylvania 6L6GB's with black plates (the ones everyone tries to copy). so we'll see what happens. and I am definetly not going to toss the amp chassis. it is going to get retubed, and used as a stereo. it came in an old style cabinet with shelves and a seperate speaker cabinet and are all cherry wood and in B-E-A-utiful shape, so its going to go in my living room. I'm figuring an all tube stereo will sound fantastic. especially since it seems to be pretty robust for tube stereo's i've seen from the same period. 2 6l6's and a 5u4 for output? 4 12ax7's in the preamp? thats a pretty powerful piece of stereo. it's also quite large cabinet wise. I popped the covers off the transformers this morning as well, they might as well be brand new. maybe I'll take some pictures and post them.

 

[edgarallanpoe]

Just because it says Mullard doesn't mean that it is a Mullard. Mullard relabeled tubes all the time. They could be RCA, Sylvania, Telefunken, etc...

Two things to look for to see if it is a real Mullard.

1. It will say Made in Gt Britain. This is a good indication but Mullard relabeled other tubes from GB like Valvo and Brimar. Still a major score even if it is these tubes.
2. There will be codes etched in the glass, they will not be inked on like the labels, they will be etched. Normally near the bottom of the tube. The code will look something like this...

161
B1H2

This example would mean that the tube was made in 1961 in the Blackburn factory. If this is what you have, you hit the jackpot. IMHO these are the Holy Grail of tubes. Nothing sounds like them.

Just a warning if this is your first introduction into vintage tubes.

They sound nothing like modern tubes. A lot of people who try vintage tubes for the first time have the sense that they have less gain than the Chinese tubes. Not true. What they are hearing is less noise...way less noise. Let your ears adjust to the different tubes. Play them for several days so you get a sense of how they sound. You will not get a good idea by playing them for an hour and switching them out. Make a swap and stick with that swap for several day to let your ear adjust. These tube will also have a different *feel*, and that will also take time to appreciate.

Great score. Let us know what you think.

 

[edgarallanpoe]

One more thing. To really hear what those powertubes do, you have to turn the gain down a tad and turn the master up. If you have the amp at bedroom volume with the preamp gain cranked, you will not hear any difference. Back the gain off and crank that master to let the powertubes breathe...

Be warned, you might not go back to your "all pre no power" sound. *This* is what separates our amps from solid state amps.

The absolute best way to see what kind of tone you are getting from your powertubes would be to get on the clean channel and crank the amp to the point where you are getting powertube distortion/overdrive. Stand back and play some AC/DC or Stones.....this is how they get that tone. It isn't done through the preamp.

Again...I love stories like this. great score. I can't wait to hear what you think.

 

[stokes]

Be careful where you put those 6L6GB's.They are only rated for about 360 volts on the plates,unlike the 6L6GC's most modern amps are designed for.If you put them in a Boogie,you could fry a good pair of tubes.

 

[Elpelotero]

i love the part "i had to sit down"

 

[Russ]

Just because it says Mullard doesn't mean that it is a Mullard. Mullard relabeled tubes all the time. They could be RCA, Sylvania, Telefunken, etc...

Two things to look for to see if it is a real Mullard.

1. It will say Made in Gt Britain. This is a good indication but Mullard relabeled other tubes from GB like Valvo and Brimar. Still a major score even if it is these tubes.
2. There will be codes etched in the glass, they will not be inked on like the labels, they will be etched. Normally near the bottom of the tube. The code will look something like this...

161
B1H2

This example would mean that the tube was made in 1961 in the Blackburn factory. If this is what you have, you hit the jackpot. IMHO these are the Holy Grail of tubes. Nothing sounds like them.

Just a warning if this is your first introduction into vintage tubes.

They sound nothing like modern tubes. A lot of people who try vintage tubes for the first time have the sense that they have less gain than the Chinese tubes. Not true. What they are hearing is less noise...way less noise. Let your ears adjust to the different tubes. Play them for several days so you get a sense of how they sound. You will not get a good idea by playing them for an hour and switching them out. Make a swap and stick with that swap for several day to let your ear adjust. These tube will also have a different *feel*, and that will also take time to appreciate.

Great score. Let us know what you think.

The same can be said about tubes branded other than Mullard but have the Made in Britain and Mullard date coding. Mullard tubes have been found to be relabeled RCA and GE of all things. With tubes back then, sometimes a manufacturer had an under-run and bought tubes from other manufacturers and relabled them. There was a lot of this going on. The best ways to tell a tube's identity are by it's internals, glass structure, and any etching or date coding. Sometimes the label will be burnt off or rubbed off and make it difficult to tell what you are looking at without some knowledge of what to look for.

Again like edgarallenpoe has said, vintage tubes are not your garden variety current production chinese or russian tube. Yes, current tubes are noisier and can be terrible tonewise. This isn't a blanket statement that they all sound horrible either because your tone is subjective. The older tubes had characteristics about them that actually shined through. If you keep your gain down you can really hear them. Also as you turn your gain up they react differently. They still do the basic same thing but just have slightly different flavor. A good initial experiment would be to put a vintage tube in V1 then try a current tube in V1. The difference is definitely there. In some amps it is more obvious than in others. Your preamp settings will vary this also.

 

[Russ]

I just read your sig....

Save your Mullards for your '81 2204. That amp really appreciates Mullards. I can say this because I have a '77 JMP that sounds incredible with them in there. I was not as impressed by them in the Mark IV. I did like RCA, GE, Phillips, and Sylvania in the Mark IV though.

 

[stadidas]

What a great find! Mullards are the holly grail. If only you'd found Mullard EL34s too, then you'd be in tone heaven!

 

[Russ]

I still have yet to breakdown and buy the xf2's for the JMP. I bought Mullards before but this amp just hasn't gotten them from me yet. My 2210 actually liked other brands more for what I was playing, ie. the Siemens that were in it when I sold it. The JMP will get them and will be in full Mullard glory.

 

[Schmoog]

the codes check out. I forget what they are cause I am at work, but they have the "B" Blackburn factory code, stamped with the white shield logo. and made in Gt. Britain. I am figuring these are the short plates, as there is no way in HELL I am lucky enough to have found 4 longplate mullards. but even still, these are awesome preamp tubes. as far as application goes ive decided I am going to leave the sylvanias in the amp they came in. the GB's are only rated for like 400 plate volts, and its just not worth it to run 2 amazing vintage tubes. the mullards, I am going to leave two in the amp I got them from, and the other two are going to go into the mark III. the question is where? I am thinking putting one into V1, and the other into the first gain stage of the lead channel (V3?) or should I put them both into the lead channel? (v3 and v5?) or put them both up front? (v1 and v2?) what do you guys think? I am also going to take the amp (eico HF-20 for anyone that cares) over to my tech to have a pot replaced, and maybe have him put in a 1/4 inch jack so I can use it as a guitar amp....

 

[scotbot]

dude, the mullards and the =c= SED's would be perferct.

 

[edgarallanpoe]

I am figuring these are the short plates, as there is no way in HELL I am lucky enough to have found 4 longplate mullards.

I haven't seen or heard of a short plate Mullard. I know Telefunken made the two different tubes, but if you have Blackburn factory shield logo Mullards, they are the standard plates and an absolute homerun. Killer score. I would definitely put at least 1 in V1. IMHO I think you should use all four...but what the hell do I know. LOL!!!

Here is what a short plate looks like...it is the third from the left. I have never seen a Mullard with this plate structure.

 

[Schmoog]

well, what I want to do is actually use this amp for my clean, and the mark III for my lead sounds. so I am thinking of leaving two of the mullards in it (it only has 4 tubes) and putting two in the mark III. of interesting note is that as I do research on these amps, it was designed to be used with 2 12ax7's and 2 12au7's. is this a custom job someone did? or did they just stick a 12ax7 where a 12au7 belongs? and if so, what are the repercussions of that?

 

[Guitarzan]

Mmmmm..... Tube Porn! :shock:

 

[Schmoog]

Mmmmm..... Tube Porn! :shock:

man, nice getters, and long smooth plates....

8)

 

[Russ]

I like the upward pointing tips and the tight bottoms... :lol: