Celestion Gold in LSS?

[timmerel]

Last bit of amp tweakery I'm considering is replacing the standard C90 in my LSS 1 x 12 combo with a new Celestion Gold (apparently similar tone to the Blue but 50W rather than 15W power rating).

I haven't heard this combination at all, so does anybody have any experience with it, and if so, what was the tonal change?

Also am I right in considering the Gold over the Blue, as the Blue may have a problem at the 30W setting? There isn't a price difference on them here in the UK.

 

[ylo]

The Gold should be safer to run in the LSS, but unless you crank the amp for long periods, the Blue should be lfine, IMHO. Most of the time people run even the big rectos at less than 10 watts.

What concerns me is that if you compare the frequency response plots of the Gold and the Blue, they are NOT identical. It looks like the Gold has a little less high end response.

So, let me add another question to yours. Has anyone ever blown a speaker in an LSS? Maybe there is no need to buy a Gold.

 

[timmerel]

Well price wise here there isn't a difference, so it really is a question of capability and tone.

On Celestion's website they recommend being careful with the Blue to not overload it with too high a rating, but again it would be good to hear from someone who has used them.

 

[Mick]

I too have been chewing on the thought of a speaker swap in my LSS 1x12. (also have 1x12 cab) I was leaning toward a Weber blue dog 30W and rickc007's results with his Celestion blue are pushing me in that direction since the blue dog is supposed to be near a clone of the celestion. Also, as timmerel pointed out the Celestion gold is supposed to be **** close to a blue but rated at 50W.

In another thread Ducky was about to get a Tone Tubby for his LSS and was waiting on the OOPS man to deliver it. These are a little higher priced but I don't mind paying for something good. Think I'll wait 'till he posts his opinion of the Tubby before I decide.

Anybody else swap speakers in their LSS?

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I don't get it.....you audition a $1700 amp, like it enough to buy it, then find the need to make all these mods?

I like mine the way it is. stock speaker, stock tubes. I do agree on why didn't Mesa consider a more efficient lower watt speaker considering the amp...but it sounds great as is....at least to me.

Had another gig this weekend where I got huge compliments on the tone from other muscians/guitarists and the audience.

So I ask myself, why make any changes?

Not knocking anyone for making the mods, I just don't understand why...given the price already paid for the amp.

 

[Ducky]

Hey JAZZ, I can only speak for myself. But after paying such a high price for any amp, and if that is getting almost to the tone in your head. Why not make a subtle change to try to get you closer to what you want?

I agree the stock speaker in the LSS sounds good. But the more I spend with the TT, It is a better match for this amp. All the frequencies are enhanced. It’s clearer (and dirtier), more responsive, smoother, and all in all, a better match. I don’t think the average person at the bar will notice anything though, but I’m the person that is playing and hearing it most of the time.

But this all comes down to your own preference. If you like it, don’t change anything. For me though, the LSS with my TT 1x12 is musical bliss.

 

[Mick]

Why? As they come from Mesa they're fine, made for the masses and you can plug in a LP, Strat, Tele, Dano etc and get a "good" sound. In my case I make mods to try to tweak this or that in order to get the tones I hear in my head, to get my own sound that fits with the music that I make and hopefully identifys it as mine.

And besides, this is America and we're pretty much able to do what ever we want to do as long as we can afford it and it doesn't bring harm to someone else. Why? Why not? :lol:

 

[rickc007]

After speakin with Ted Weber, I would be suprised if the Blue was that close to the Gold.

We didn't talk about these speakers directly, but he recomended the lower wattage 15w Blue Dog for a more aggressive tone. To go up in wattage,
you would need heavier duty cone and coil. His higher wattage Blues get warmer, and a little less aggressive.

I just put a Blue in my LSS, and aggressive is a good way of putting it
it is a brighter speaker, but you can dial that out easily if you want.
I'll probably give his Blue Dog a try also, just havent' decided which one

BTW, I ran the Celestio Blue in 30 watt mode this weekend with no issues.


I really like the change. Would not put the C90 back in, period

cheers

 

[Platypus]

There are two equally valid arguments for tweaking so it comes down to what makes sense for YOU.

I'm a tweaker at heart so I live for twisting knobs and replacing parts.. but responsibly and intelligently. I will exercise every parameter possible with the given hardware and isolate things that I wish I had more control over.. at that point I will opt to find a better replacement for MY needs. The problem is that tone is so subjective that a lot of times what Mesa thinks will get you in the ballpark may not be 100% for you but very close.

I sometimes read stuff that boggles my mind, people who buy these expensive amplifiers and have someone like voodoo mod them (no offense to them) but honestly, wtf did you buy the amp in the first place if you're going to completely change the way it performs? Tubes, speakers, those all make sense to me but totally changing the amp.. probably better off just buying what you are looking for in the first place.

Each side makes sense but make sure you've done the neccesary research before just blindly making changes and spending money for no reason :idea:

</0.02c>

 

[JAZZGEAR]

"The problem is that tone is so subjective that a lot of times what Mesa thinks will get you in the ballpark may not be 100% for you but very close."

Touche! Great Point, and I agree.

 

[timmerel]

Thanks for the information rick - what do you mean by "aggressive" in terms of the tonal change with the Celestion Blue?

I was thinking about changing the speaker if it would become "sweeter" sounding in terms of both clean and overdrive (if that makes any sense), but "aggressive" sounds like it might not be in that direction.

Ducky, would you say that the TT is in the direction I'm thinking?

 

[Mick]

I ordered a 30 W 8ohm alnico Tubby with the current std cone. Should be here and hopefully installed in the LSS Thursday so FWIW I'll post whatever vibe I get from it. I also have a 1x12 cab with the stock C90 in it so I can a/b just by switching the cables.

 

[Ducky]

I was thinking about changing the speaker if it would become "sweeter" sounding in terms of both clean and overdrive (if that makes any sense), but "aggressive" sounds like it might not be in that direction.

Ducky, would you say that the TT is in the direction I'm thinking?

I wouldn’t describe the TT as “aggressive”, sweeter could work. I find it’s smoother with more definition a bigger sound. (not louder, but more full)

Mick, I got the standard 8ohm TT. I put mine in the 1x12 and left the LSS alone. (Homemade with removable back) I prefer it open back, it’s not as directional, and just sounds more full.

 

[Mick]

Both the LSS and my cab have an 8"X20" opening in the back. Wouldn't these be considered open backed? If I rember correctly, the Tubby works better in an open back cab but I've read so many posts/opinions in the last 2 weeks regarding speakers that I'm not sure.

 

[Ducky]

Both the LSS and my cab have an 8"X20" opening in the back. Wouldn't these be considered open backed? If I rember correctly, the Tubby works better in an open back cab but I've read so many posts/opinions in the last 2 weeks regarding speakers that I'm not sure.

Everything i've read pointed to the TT used in an open back cab. But i had to try it myself just to be sure.

 

[Mick]

I played with the TTubby for about 2 1/2 hrs last nite and another 2 1/2 hrs tonite so I guess I'll take a shot at describing my 1st impressions. I have a LSS 1x12 and a matching Mesa 1x12 cab. The amp sits on a wooden crate and the cab is on a stand right beside it, both are waist high. I put the Tubby in the cab and left the amp with the stock C90. Also, I left all amp settings as they were since I was used to the tone as it was.

1st I left the C90 plugged in by it's self just to get baseline sound, played a few licks/tunes for about 5 min.....my usual sweet LSS tone untill I couldn't wait any longer.

Unplugged the Celestion and plugged in the Tubby and hated it.....real quick. Sounded really sharp, harsh really not what I was expecting at all. Went back and forth a few times making small adjustments with the settings and started to sound more appealing but I still liked the stocker best.

Playing with both speakers sounded great! Nice and full, smoother, harshness gone. Sounded really good with the Celestion plugged into the optional 35w output. By the time I was done I liked it better but didn't think it was worth near the approx $300 fare.

Next morning I thought "What a dumbass" I should've got the manual out and start fresh with one of the factory settings which generally have alot more bass and less treble and presence than I was used to having dialed in. BTW all playing was done with 2 G&L ASAT's, 1 solid body and 1 semi hollow, and both with low/std output vintage wind single coils. I dialed it in per the Clean Clone settings in the manual with the clean channel on 30w and the drive channel on 5w with the masters set for even volume. Overall volume was about half way cranked.

Started with the celestion on the clean channel which I knew was going to be too bassy, muddy, for my taste. OK on the bridge and middle position but play a nice fat E9, D9 with a little *** in the attack on the neck pick up and I get some decent clarity on the g,b,high e strings but the low notes are farting fairly bad. Drive channel is the same just a little worse due to the cranked 5w.

Unplugged the Celestion and plugged in the Tubby and lo and behold, here's the speaker I've been reading about. Now everything I play sounds like I want it to. Nice crisp highs, no face making ice pick. (chimey if you pick the individual notes, sweet and sharp chords and double stops) Put it on the neck pick up and play an E boogie thing like Hot Rod Lincoln on either channel and nothing but fat clear bass notes, ringing or muted, no flub, no fart out. This amazed me as I'm used to having the bass around 9 or 10 o clock and now it's on 1 or 2, really full sounding.

Better yet is both speakers together with these settings. Only thing that sounds "off" is that the Tubby is slightly louder than the stocker. Not alot but noticeable when you stand 3 or 4 feet in front of it. However, this goes away if you plug the Celestion into the 35w jack.

That's about all I got for now folks. I haven't typed this much since I tried college one time. At this point I'm happy as hell with this speaker but I still got alot more experimenting with rolling off the vol and tone on the guitar(most of this playing was done with guitar vol and tone turned up 3/4 of the way up to full on) and one of these days see how it acts with a LP Deluxe with mini humbuckers.

Later, Mick

Sorry for the big winded post but I didn't just want to say "Ugh, kinda sucked 'till I got my thumb outta my ### and reset the amp, Duh."

 

[timmerel]

Wow - very helpful.

So if you had to decide on either the stock speaker or the Tone Tubby in the combo itself without the additional speaker cabinet, which would you pick and why?

 

[timmerel]

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[JAZZGEAR]

Maybe I missed something....but if with the original Celestion you're happy with the Bass control between 9 & 10 O'clock.......but the TT it needs to be turned up to 1 & 2, then how is this better?

Seems to me it's an expenditure not worth making. Both speakers seem to get you what you want (albeit with different EQ settings).

 

[Mick]

Yea JAZZGEAR you missed something. I didn't say I was happy with the bass set at 9 or 10. I said that I was used to having it set at 9 or 10 o clock which was due to the fact that if I added any more to fill out the sound, it would just break up/ fart out in an ugly sounding way. With the new speaker I can add the bass I need to give me the full round sound I want with no ugly sounding break up.