Bugera = Axe FX ?? Stealing a tone is still stealing

[Heritage Softail]

Lots of action on the Bugera outright copys of major amp manufacturers. Patent infringements!!!

How is Axe FX different from Bugera. Both are designed to sound like someone else's product.

Axe Fx says the tone is not protected. But maybe it should be. Axe Fx is a piece of gear built on the premise of counterfeiting the sound of someone else's R&D. They go about creating this duplicate sound by using different technology, but it is still an effort to duplicate. It seems odd it is illegal to attempt to reproduce the Boogie sound if you use a tube, but it is legal if you use a transistor. :shock: Bugera is trying to get the same end result as Axe Fx. But somehow they are evil patent stealing bottom feeders, and Axe Fx is cool.

So line up Axe FX with Bugera if we are going to try someone for creating and selling a product that is intended to duplicate another. They both are attempting to reap financial gain off of someone else's R&D time/effort/expense. The technology used to reach the end result should be protected, but saying the end result 'product' of all those individual items is not protected seems wrong. Since the primary purpose of an amp is to create a 'sound', that trademark sound should be protected. Even the people from this forum that have bought Axe Fx units say it is like having all these other amps in one box. Ripping off the sound is the stated M.O.

What do you think?

 

[Spewnz]

i thinks its the difference between emulating a tone of an amp and making an amp head or combo with the same look functionality and in some cases a **** similar name.

 

[dmcguitar]

yeah, i see a case against bugera if they try to clone simul-class... but technically if they arrived at a tone similar to another amp without copying the signal flow how can you protect that?
with tone i think getting two exact amps to sound the same is tough... marshall took the fender amp and changed the tubes and poof rock history... isnt the recto based on the soldano whisch is his take on a marshall?

and also if these amps didn't copy the look or make the name very similar would we care? i mean isnt the peavy Triple XXX similar looking to a Recto, and have a "modern" tone?

and the other problem is.. (as i see it) if you have a mark V.. does it only make one sound.. does it turn on and only do Master of Puppets? (No) it can be made to have a large spectrum of tones... one of which may sound like some other amp.. if i put together a circuit changed around a few existing schematics out there and tweaked them to make my own. and it sounded like a IIC+, why is that a problem? (also you and I probalby here an amp and get slightly different interpretations of the tone.)

 

[LTE]

I'm pretty sure Axe-Fx is all modeling software, mostly digital im guessing. Where as bugera copies the layouts, knob spacing, design, FRIGGIN WIRING, everything. Except quality.

 

[Heritage Softail]

When you buy a Boogie, you buy a tone. Not a set of schematics and parts. The nature of what Axe Fx and Bugera are doing is to replicate the tone, being done in different ways, to get to the same end - a rip off. A IIC+ or Rectifier is an icon. Bugera and Axe Fx are just knock offs of someone else's innovation. I am going to stick with the real thing. Kinda like the 'why do you ride a Harley' question. If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Then all the amp makers should be hounded out of business 'cause they all copied Leo Fender. Randall Smith based his design on the Fender Princeton, Jim Marshall on the 4 x 10 Bassman.
Oh, wait, Leo copied Western Electric circuits, which were basically public domain. Oops!

 

[paintballnsk]

The Bugera I can see as an infringement or at least an attempt to ride someone else's popularity. Look at the new Mark copies, they're rediculous. It's basically based on the fact that people will buy them at a dirt cheap price, and try to convince themselves "it's just like a Mark V". I played a 333 once and was quite impressed for the sound and features for an amp that cheap. I would never own one because i hear they break down easily and are made super crappy.

I mean I don't think Mesa is going to be hurting anytime soon for that kind of competition. Mesa purposly keeps itself in a higher price bracket to hold its prestige. And they keep the high quiality to back it up. If you can afford a Mesa, you've got other things to worry about like Engl, Bogner, and Marshall. And I hope it stays that way. As soon as Mesa puts out a bargan amplifier at low quality, like a Marshall MG series POS or a Bugera, I will lose all respect for them. Just like I lost all respect for Bogner when they teamed up with Line 6. But hey, I'm sure it brought them in a lot of money.

If you have $400 kicking around and want a high gain tube head that will get you by (until it breaks), then all the power to Bugera. I would have more respect for them if they didn't so obviously copy the Mesa look. It's like a slap in the face and a "just try to sue us".

Axe FX.. Whatever.. You'd have to sue Line 6, Fender, Zoom, Boss, Digitech, and everyone else that has done similar stuff in the past (though never as high quality as the Axe FX).

Since the history of marketing, people have been riding the popularity of others. See Mountain Dew/Sierra Mist, Power Aid/Gator Aid, Vitamin Water/Smart Water, Captain Morgain/Sailor Steve... (sorry i'm thursty). You only have to be a little different to get away with it and don't copy any patented parts. You can't patent a taste, a texture, a color, or a sound beacuse they're all subjective.

"Mr. Pibb is a replica of Dr. Pepper, but it's a bullshit replica, cause the dude didn't even get his degree."

 

[Heritage Softail]

"Mr. Pibb is a replica of Dr. Pepper, but it's a bullshit replica, cause the dude didn't even get his degree."

Nice....

 

[lailer75]

Mr. Pibb is a replica of Dr. Pepper, but it's a bullshit replica, cause the dude didn't even get his degree.

mitch rules R.I.P.

 

[CrazyHeart]

Hi Guy and Gals,

I have owned 3 Mesa Boogies, a Maverick, a Mark IV Combo, and a Lonestar Special. They are great well made amps with great tone. But be careful with this topic. When it comes to amps, it's a long slippery slope.

"They also liked
the wolf-in-sheeps-clothing approach. Built inside a deceitfully stock
looking Fender Princeton was a hot-rodded circuit based on the 4x10 tweed Bassman."
Randall Smith

Let's give credit where credit is due... Leo Fender. A lot of people have taken his designs and improved on them. He made the first solid body guitar, so did all the other guitar companies steal his design?

What some very talented people have done, it take things that are here and improved them .... Thank God they did, because I have the pleasure of playing a John Suhr Classic T and a Tom Anderson Classic and I have a Fender DRRI and a Mesa Mark IV and a Carr Rambler ... the list goes on.

Oh yes ... I also have an Axe-Fx and they all have the their place. Axe-Fx does not advertise itself as a modeler. What Axe-Fx does is give YOU the consumer is ability to dial in whatever sound you like. If you like the sound of a Deluxe Reverb, you CAN dial it in or really just about any other sound you can imagine.

I won't sell my tube amps ... I really love them, but I won't give up the Axe-Fx either. Neither do I feel that it infringes on anyone else patent or design. It's just a tool to make music with.

Don't worry ... be happy
Jim

 

[EleventhHour2139]

Hi Guy and Gals,

I have owned 3 Mesa Boogies, a Maverick, a Mark IV Combo, and a Lonestar Special. They are great well made amps with great tone. But be careful with this topic. When it comes to amps, it's a long slippery slope.

"They also liked
the wolf-in-sheeps-clothing approach. Built inside a deceitfully stock
looking Fender Princeton was a hot-rodded circuit based on the 4x10 tweed Bassman."
Randall Smith

Let's give credit where credit is due... Leo Fender. A lot of people have taken his designs and improved on them. He made the first solid body guitar, so did all the other guitar companies steal his design?

What some very talented people have done, it take things that are here and improved them .... Thank God they did, because I have the pleasure of playing a John Suhr Classic T and a Tom Anderson Classic and I have a Fender DRRI and a Mesa Mark IV and a Carr Rambler ... the list goes on.

Oh yes ... I also have an Axe-Fx and they all have the their place. Axe-Fx does not advertise itself as a modeler. What Axe-Fx does is give YOU the consumer is ability to dial in whatever sound you like. If you like the sound of a Deluxe Reverb, you CAN dial it in or really just about any other sound you can imagine.

I won't sell my tube amps ... I really love them, but I won't give up the Axe-Fx either. Neither do I feel that it infringes on anyone else patent or design. It's just a tool to make music with.

Don't worry ... be happy
Jim

Dear god...post of the year award!!! This may be the single most insightful and meaningful first post (or possibly ANY post) in the history of the internet. No joke.

Welcome to the forum and THANK YOU, you help maintain my faith in humanity .

 

[ryjan]

Kinda like the 'why do you ride a Harley' question. If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day it said "Nice Harley, sorry about the small penis." :lol:

 

[Heritage Softail]

I like

"Yes this is my truck, no I won't help you move"

 

[Sixstringpsycho]

innovation will always being copied as compnaies try to sell that innovation in a cheap poorly made package, however sometimes that innovative technology is taken by a company and expanded into yet another innovative version. a perfect example is the MP3 player....then OMG Apple made the iPod and all other MP3 players became second string, same principle applies to all areas of technology manufacturing.

 

[JD]

From a Mesa Boogie catalogue
THE MARK 3 SERIES
The mark 3 is the first amplifier to successfully reproduce all 3 major guitar sounds with flawless accuracy with footswitchable ease.
Clean rhythm, crunch rhythm and screaming lead.
Its like getting a great FENDER, a custom MARSHALL and a BOOGIE all in 1.
Every one has done it but many have taken an idea and improved on it.
People who play guitar buy amps etc are going to be able to tell the difference in quality and cheap sh#t.
I am sure you wont see Bugera amps on tour with bands.

But I do not a agree with cheap blatent copies.

But a tone stealing debate will be a never ending argument.

 

[2CDR]

I am sure you wont see Bugera amps on tour with bands.

well there actually are a few bands/big names using them on the road.
vernon reid(living color) and shane gibson(killer solo artist/korn),though shane is not using them for korn.

 

[JD]

corrected

 

[paintballnsk]

Free stuff is free stuff. I'd use one too if it was free, though I'd probably make them mad when I strip all forms of identification off the amp.

Forum got a little off topic. You bring off Bugera and you instantly piss off every Mesa owner (self included)