Boogie "Too Loud"

[gitapik]

I don't get it. The only time I can see it is if you're cranking it and playing the amp through the guitar pots. Then you definitely need it loud and it really does sound awesome.

BUT...

Isn't that why Mr Smith developed the dual channel concept to begin with? I can get fantastic tone out of my Mark IIB at almost any volume. Bedroom volume and it's still sustaining beautifully. And I've got a small club/bar setting that has outrageous sustain and feedback. And for the larger venues....

Tired of hearing about how they're too loud. Incredibly versatile, beautiful, kickass amps.

 

[fishyfishfish]

I think when people are saying that they are talking about the volume taper compared to other amps. 3 on my master would be barely on on some amps.
We have a little subway series with the cab isolated at our church. Other players are always diming the input gain and turning the master to 5 or 6 and then complaining about the clean tone. All it takes is a little light reading about an amp and your home free in most cases.

 

[rocksalt7]

I hear ya man!! Really :lol: The controls on Mesa's are so much more meaningful than on any other amp I've ever used. They're definitely extraordinary amps, and I like to think we who use them are the same! :mrgreen:

 

[gitapik]

I think when people are saying that they are talking about the volume taper compared to other amps. 3 on my master would be barely on on some amps.
We have a little subway series with the cab isolated at our church. Other players are always diming the input gain and turning the master to 5 or 6 and then complaining about the clean tone. All it takes is a little light reading about an amp and your home free in most cases.

Yeah...the louder you get, the lower you can go on Volume 1, which helps with the tapering. Even with it dimed, though, you can find the sweet spot if you know how.

 

[gonzo]

i use an attenuator to dial in the range between 1 and 2 on the master.

works like a charm, i don't have to attenuate that much, and it's very dialed in.


then, i can go one of 3 ways:

i can dime the master, clean up the preamp, and attenuate more;

i can dime the preamp, run the master hot enough to work the ouput, and attenuate;

or bypass the attenuator, and play at whatever volume i need (above two, or below 1.5........ you know what i mean!)

 

[fishyfishfish]

I used to go with a Dr. Z Airbrake but began to wonder if I was doing more harm than good in a pre amp based design. I just settled with out it.
One really cool pedal I picked up was the Demeter Compulator. Works like a dream on the clean and dreaded R2 of my mark III. I run the settings on the comp to give it just enough compression to seem like I'm driving the power section and it really does add that cranked amp "Feel". Now days I am trying to stay away from real high gain stuff and get my tone to sit in the mix better. Looking for the Steve Ferris tone from Mr.Mister. I know he used an ODS of some sorts but I am closer I think.

 

[RussB]

They're not too loud, they're TOO HEAVY! :lol:

 

[gitapik]

They're not too loud, they're TOO HEAVY! :lol:

Yep...they weigh a lot. I've looked at tube amps (boutique and not) with similar features and they're all around the 50-75 lbs range, though. Seems to come with the territory.

I just took 10 lbs off my combo by replacing the original EVM12L that was in there with a Jensen C12K. It's not a huge change in weight...but it does make a difference. What REALLY makes a difference, though, is the tone. I really liked the EV...but I'm not missing it in the slightest. This speaker is g-r-e-a-t! Picks up the nuances of both the attack and sustain better to my ear. I put it off for so long, but am really diggin' it, now.

 

[gitapik]

i use an attenuator to dial in the range between 1 and 2 on the master.

works like a charm, i don't have to attenuate that much, and it's very dialed in.


then, i can go one of 3 ways:

i can dime the master, clean up the preamp, and attenuate more;

i can dime the preamp, run the master hot enough to work the ouput, and attenuate;

or bypass the attenuator, and play at whatever volume i need (above two, or below 1.5........ you know what i mean!)

Which attenuator?

 

[Neptical]

Both of my Mark IIIs can sing and sustain for days in Class A at bedroom volume. You can get the amp so low in volume that it's hardly even audible. Playing gigs I throw it in SimulClass --but funny thing is last gig somehow I still had it switched in Class A but didn't notice until after I played. The amp sounded a-m-a-z-i-n-g! It was very rich and sweet.That proved I'll be using Class A live alot more often then I thought.

 

[gonzo]

gitapik


weber mass lite.

 

[gitapik]

gitapik


weber mass lite.

Love that cream tolex...

How's it effect tube life?

 

[gonzo]

it doesn't at all.

the tubes are going to wear the same if the master if on 5, and attenuated, or on 5 and not attenuated.

people get hung up on this, but they just don't understand.


if you run tubes harder, they wear out faster.
it's got nothing to do with the attenuator.

it's your CHOICE, to run the amp harder, using the attenuator to tame the volume.

but the rate of tube burn is the same, the attenuator doesn't change it, just allows you to go there more often, therefore you wear the tubes out faster.

 

[gitapik]

it doesn't at all.

the tubes are going to wear the same if the master if on 5, and attenuated, or on 5 and not attenuated.

people get hung up on this, but they just don't understand.


if you run tubes harder, they wear out faster.
it's got nothing to do with the attenuator.

it's your CHOICE, to run the amp harder, using the attenuator to tame the volume.

but the rate of tube burn is the same, the attenuator doesn't change it, just allows you to go there more often, therefore you wear the tubes out faster.

Cool...thanks. Good info.

 

[topcat0399]

Both of my Mark IIIs can sing and sustain for days in Class A at bedroom volume. You can get the amp so low in volume that it's hardly even audible. Playing gigs I throw it in SimulClass --but funny thing is last gig somehow I still had it switched in Class A but didn't notice until after I played. The amp sounded a-m-a-z-i-n-g! It was very rich and sweet.That proved I'll be using Class A live alot more often then I thought.

my mark iv spends most of its life in class A tweed. more than enough for most gigs fer gods sake

are ya deaf yet eh? eh? huh? whaddy ya say?? huh?

 

[gonzo]

neptical-

you know, i can get awesome tones out of my boogie at bedroom volume without the attenuator...

the master volume setup works perfect.

but i prefer the output distortion sound, to the preamp...
actually, i kind of ride the fence between the two..

and find i've got to run the master on at least 2, to get the grind i want, and then it's almost at gigging level.

so the attenuator lets me fine tune that 'in-between ' volume level that the boogie is known to be very slack in.

i get a HUGE HUGE HUGE volume jump, between about 1 and 1.5, there's no middle ground there at all.

 

[gitapik]

neptical-

you know, i can get awesome tones out of my boogie at bedroom volume without the attenuator...

the master volume setup works perfect.

but i prefer the output distortion sound, to the preamp...
actually, i kind of ride the fence between the two..

and find i've got to run the master on at least 2, to get the grind i want, and then it's almost at gigging level.

so the attenuator lets me fine tune that 'in-between ' volume level that the boogie is known to be very slack in.

i get a HUGE HUGE HUGE volume jump, between about 1 and 1.5, there's no middle ground there at all.

I'm glad I started this thread because I was considering an attenuator before getting my speaker and tubes changed. Since then, I've found that I can get a bit more of a taper between 1 and 2...but I still hear what you're saying, so I'm very interested for two reasons:

1) It would be sweet to have that output distortion sound option at a lower volume. The amp's killer when it's cranked on the rhythm channel. I'd love to be able to dial that in.

2) I checked out the Weber site and read the article they have a link to. Great explanation of the benefits. His point about it being especially good for recording in terms of reducing the amp noise at a louder volume is a very good one.

Good price for the Weber. Is yours a MASS model? I've decided to work summer school this year (I teach in the NYCDOE), so I'll have some extra $$$s soon. Been planning on getting a pedal board and WET reverb pedal. Was rolling the idea of Mike B's effects loop mod around, too. Now I'm considering an attenuator. I like my summers free...but there's some nice stuff that I can afford if I work this one.

 

[Neptical]

Gonz,

Your completely right, I love the sound these amps make when you really drive the power section. Last night at practice I had the Master Volume at 3 and there's just so much warmth and depth when it's hitting hard like that. Of course running good tubes in both sections really helps everything along the way as well. But, yeah definitetly...even at bedroom volume ( is that day or night? 'cuz day is a bit louder :wink: ) flipped in Simulclass I can still get some really inspiring tones. The aggressiveness of the Mark III really gets it's point across even at low levels which I really like alot.

I agree on the crazy volume jump on the Master Volume, though! If I stay low on that and use Lead Master, it's good enough for noodling around ideas at the homefront..and rolling back on the guitar volume really cleans up very nice. Last night I had some very close Eric Johnson tones going on that kept me playing for hours!

 

[gonzo]

GIT
mine is the Mass Lite
100w
i like the idea of having 2 attenuators in one...
one attenuating low end (where almost all the energy is) and the other attenuating the high end.
i prefer this, to the attenuators that have tone stacks built into them.
i've used a lot of them, and this particular model works for me the best.
i often will dime the amp in clean mode, dime the output, dime the preamp, and tweak the bass and treble for crunch.....
add a good boost or overdrive, and i get an awesome combo rhythm/lead tone.


nep-
if it weren't for that volume jump, i MIGHT have just left it alone...
but having the attenuator DOES let me get to different levels of drive that i sometimes can't crank.

 

[Neptical]

Sweeet, Gonz! Sounds like a great unit you have there!