Best placement for mic live on Triple Recto

[jakeleigh]

Hi,

I don't have the luxury of isolating my cab and micing it up at home to work out the best location to mic the speaker for a full sound. Unfortunately a lot of the places my band plays are often more geared up towards indie style bands (most of the London music scene) and the sound engineers are really not great (for the modern rock/metal sound we have).

I often feel that the sound could be quite a bit better than it is, I'm using a Marshall 1960A (probably not the best choice I realize) with my 3 channel Triple recto with SD-1/Les Pauls (EMG)/PRS custom 22. Can anyone suggest a good kinds 'default' spot to mic the cab? The sound I'm going for is that big Tremonti type tone. Yeah I know he uses all the outboard gear, DI's etc but I'm just talking about somewhere in that ballpark.

Also I'm considering throwing a couple of V30s in a x pattern in my cab, 1, is it worth it? and 2, live, is it better to mic both speakers or just the V30?

Thanks in advance!

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I've heard that Tremonti actually uses the Boogie C90s in his 4x12s....don't know if it's true, but I believie it, because the EQ curve, and response with a rectifier is MUCH more to Tremonti's tone. It's a HUGE speakers compared to a V30.

So, personally, I'd a drop 2 C90s in the Marshall cab, or just go for a 2x12 with C90s under your 4x12, and mic the C90....it would make for a HUGE live sound.

I do have a pair of C90s I'm selling at the moment if you're interested. Downgrading, got rid of one cab, and I no longer have a home for these speakers PM me if you're interested.

EMGs aren't the way to go for Tremonti's tone either...not at all.

As for specific mic placement, it's really hard to say...it depends on the cab and the tone you have dialed in WAY too much for us to judge over the internet.

Best of luck!

 

[jakeleigh]

Thanks for the advice. As for the C90s it'd probably not work out cost effective as I'm over in the UK, however just done a quick google and ebay search and looks like I'm gonna have problems getting hold of them. Does anyone know anywhere in the UK that sells them? I'd prefer not to go the 2 cab route as a lot of the stages here are pretty tiny!

To be honest I know the EMGs aren't the best for getting the Tremonti sound, I have some Gibson 500Ts in another LP and my Explorer Pro, and they get me alot closer to his sound.

Yeah I know you can't really make a specific judgment on exactly where to place the mic, I'm just looking for a rough guide really, more of an approximate area, more towards the center or out towards the edge, on or off axis etc.

 

[Chris McKinley]

You've got to realize that even Tremonti doesn't sound that big when he plays live. I know exactly how he gets that sound in the studio and most of what you're referring to is the result of very carefully crafted multi-tracking of the guitar on his recordings. You simply can't get that exact sound live no matter what quality of equipment you use. Try the settings others have already recommended and check how your miked guitar is being EQ'd at the sound guy's mixing board compared to the rest of the band. The surest way to sound big live is to carve out a frequency range for your instrument and own it. For guitars, that's usually somewhere in the mids.

You can also experiment if possible with a multi-cab and/or stereo guitar rig. That will get you a bigger sound because you literally have more sound sources.

 

[Silverwulf]

He never said he wanted Tremonti's exact studio sound live. The guy just said he's going for a "big Tremonti type tone," huge difference. Tremonti has always sounded huge live when I saw him, especially back on the "Human Clay" tour right after the album was released.

To answer your questions, I would first stick with micking up 1 speaker and not worry about 2. Finding a sweet spot is like a science, and if you can't mark off your cab prior to show time and you're leaving yourself at the mercy of a "toss a mic up and go" soundman, the last thing you want is him having to fool with more than 1 mic. You stated they're usually not the best soundmen. If he can't dial you in great with 1 mic, he's not going to get anywhere trying to mediate 2 IMO.

As for an x-pattern of V30's, I think it would be totally worth it. This is for my own preference, and V30's would def get you closer to that Tremonti type sound than 75's. A blend of 75/V30's is a good mix, and when the soundman goes to mic you up, have him toss the mic on a V30. I think V30's sound best when they're broken in a good bit.

A 500T is def a Tremonti-type humbucker, but the EMG's will get you there too. I used to do modern rock, and I would constantly get the "that sounds just like Trmeonti" comments with my EMG/Dual Recto/V30 setup. Of course, it probably didn't hurt that some of our old tracks sounded like something that would be on "Human Clay"... :lol:

Finally, to your original question...mic placement is going to differ per cab, per speaker, etc. Start with it (mics like a 57) pointing directly - straight on - to the center of the cone of a speaker, about an inch off the grill. Move it off center by anywhere between 1 to 2 inches and that should give you a good start.

 

[Chris McKinley]

Silverwulf,

At this point, it would seem that you're just obviously trolling me, but I'll address your point as if you were sincere anyway, since you did offer some very good advice to jakeleigh afterward. RE: "He never said he wanted Tremonti's exact studio sound live.". No, he didn't. Nor did I claim he did. He did, however, state that he was "going for...that big Tremonti type tone.". My whole point was that the biggest part of what makes Tremonti sound so big is very controlled multi-tracking, and that he should understand that he may not be able to achieve that in a live setting no matter how he mikes his cab. This is fact, and I don't believe you are disputing this if I read you correctly.

I then went on to point out that the element in a live setting that he does have control over and that makes the most impact in giving the guitar sound the biggest presence in the mix is to find a frequency range in which he will be competing minimally with the other members of his band, and that the range where the guitar most strongly achieves that is in the mid range. Again, I don't believe you are disputing my point in any way if I read you correctly.


jakeleigh,

Please don't let whatever personal disagreement Silverwulf may have with me interfere with your thread. The advice he gave you is excellent, especially regarding the typical inadvisability of relying on various soundmen to be able to guarantee a double-mic configuration without phasing issues. If you decide you absolutely must have a double-mic setup, do yourself a favor and learn to do it exactly the way you want it yourself, then mark it off as Silverwulf mentioned. At shows, mic it up yourself and check how the soundman has each of your mics EQ'd so that they don't interfere with each other or with the rest of the band. In almost every case, the soundman will not object to you doing it yourself so long as he's sure you understand that he then won't be held as responsible for your live sound when the show starts.

 

[Silverwulf]

Silverwulf,

At this point, it would seem that you're just obviously trolling me, but I'll address your point as if you were sincere anyway, since you did offer some very good advice to jakeleigh afterward. RE: "He never said he wanted Tremonti's exact studio sound live.". No, he didn't. Nor did I claim he did. He did, however, state that he was "going for...that big Tremonti type tone.". My whole point was that the biggest part of what makes Tremonti sound so big is very controlled multi-tracking, and that he should understand that he may not be able to achieve that in a live setting no matter how he mikes his cab. This is fact, and I don't believe you are disputing this if I read you correctly.

I then went on to point out that the element in a live setting that he does have control over and that makes the most impact in giving the guitar sound the biggest presence in the mix is to find a frequency range in which he will be competing minimally with the other members of his band, and that the range where the guitar most strongly achieves that is in the mid range. Again, I don't believe you are disputing my point in any way if I read you correctly.

:roll: Look, I'm not going to play these childish games. If you have beef with me, take it up with me via PM and respect the others on the board by not spamming up everyones threads with flammable posts.

I just said he wasn't looking for Tremonti's studio sound. You started your post with "You've got to realize that..." Well, no he doesn't. It's his thread. I don't understand the need to assume he's ignorant and give him lectures on studio vs live sound. The guy asked very specific questions about mic placement and speakers. Is it so hard to simply answer his questions directly without giving him lectures on other topics? I'm sure he's well aware of the difference and was likely referring to Tremonti's live sound to begin with considering he followed it up by saying "I know he uses all the outboard gear, DI's, etc..." which happens to be what Tremonti does live. You just completely missed the whole point there and you latched onto the wrong aspect of what he was saying. His thread was asking about mic placement and he asked about speakers, and he just happened to casually mention Tremonti to give an idea of the sounds he liked. Tremonti in the studio vs live has nothing to do with it. He just brought up Tremonti to describe a general sound.

But seriously, PM me if you have beef to address. That's what it's for, not someones thread seeking help. I have no beef with anyone, but if you persist on believing this paranoid notion that there's a troll out to get you, I'd be more than happy to discuss it in the appropriate manner (PM).

 

[Chris McKinley]

Silverwulf,

I think maybe you need to listen to some of your own advice. I have no beef with you and never had. You seem to have taken one up with me at some point and decided to keep it going. It's not me that's following you around from thread to thread, having to say something negative about anything I state no matter what it might be. Your behavior doing exactly that is the very definition of trolling. You're not my personal hall monitor on how I post to people....don't need one, thanks. If someone whom I'm actually addressing has any issue whatsoever with anything I post, I am more than happy to hear from them about it.

It's clear from a reading of your posting history that you are singling me out for this kind of behavior and not just playing hall monitor to everyone equally. You've repeatedly turned down offers of civility from me and insisted on maintaining a pattern of trolling threads I post on. While, from my perspective, I still have no beef with you, and never did, if you continue to insist on trolling my posts, my communication won't be with you via PM, since I have nothing to say to you that I haven't said openly and publicly, it will be to the Administrators.

Since you appear, yet again, unwilling to have objective, civil discussion of the actual topic with me, I'm going to attempt to prevent any further disruptions from you in this regard by simply putting you on ignore. To me, this is unfortunate, but since it appears that there is no further legitimate useful discussion to be had with you, it seems the least disruptive choice to the board. I hope you continue to post, and am quite sure you will, since you have some very good advice for the readers of the board, regardless of whatever disagreement we may have. Whatever the issue is, I hope you and yours have a happy holiday.

 

[Silverwulf]

Silverwulf,

I think maybe you need to listen to some of your own advice. I have no beef with you and never had. You seem to have taken one up with me at some point and decided to keep it going. It's not me that's following you around from thread to thread, having to say something negative about anything I state no matter what it might be. Your behavior doing exactly that is the very definition of trolling. You're not my personal hall monitor on how I post to people....don't need one, thanks. If someone whom I'm actually addressing has any issue whatsoever with anything I post, I am more than happy to hear from them about it.

It's clear from a reading of your posting history that you are singling me out for this kind of behavior and not just playing hall monitor to everyone equally. You've repeatedly turned down offers of civility from me and insisted on maintaining a pattern of trolling threads I post on. While, from my perspective, I still have no beef with you, and never did, if you continue to insist on trolling my posts, my communication won't be with you via PM, since I have nothing to say to you that I haven't said openly and publicly, it will be to the Administrators.

Since you appear, yet again, unwilling to have objective, civil discussion of the actual topic with me, I'm going to attempt to prevent any further disruptions from you in this regard by simply putting you on ignore. To me, this is unfortunate, but since it appears that there is no further legitimate useful discussion to be had with you, it seems the least disruptive choice to the board. I hope you continue to post, and am quite sure you will, since you have some very good advice for the readers of the board, regardless of whatever disagreement we may have. Whatever the issue is, I hope you and yours have a happy holiday.

Why would I not continue to post? I've been here a while longer than you have. Again, take it to PM's, and some advice...quit assuming everyone on this board is ignorant and you need to "educate" them. Answer peoples questions and stop turning everyones threads into some soapbox for you to rant about unrelated topics, thanks.

As typical with you, you once again turn yet another thread into a personal soapbox for yourself that's entirely off-topic, and once again, you've been reported. The people on this board aren't idiots, so please don't treat them like they are.

I love how you call me a troll, when I wasn't talking to you. Most importantly, please take a look at your first response in this thread. You do realize that you...

...did not even answer the OP's questions at ALL. You basically called him ignorant and gave him a lecture on everything EXCEPT what he asked about...

So why even respond, other than to call him stupid? THAT'S being a troll. Unlike you, I actually spent my post addressing his questions.