Beating that horse... 2-Channel Blackface DR vs. Roadster

[Neptical]

Hey Fellas,

Sorry if this has been covered here a million times, but I'd like to hear what you folks thought about a 2-Channel Blackface DR vs. a Roadster head. I owned a 1st version Single Rec for just over 10 years and sold it almost a year ago...to hopefully never experience that again! Well, I love the big Rec sound but always hated the Rec fizz..and mine never disappeared no matter what I did with it. I changed the preamp and power tubes more then any amp I've ever owned. Nothing ever seemed to really tighten and warm it up. It was just too thin on top of that.

Fast forward 1 year.. I've been hearing a few of the older 2-channel DR's lately, one specifically a Blackface. Tight bold and punchy with some warmth...great cleans. Making me fiend for another Rec again. Such a killer rhythm machine.

Now, I'm not sure if I should pursue the older 2 channel DR's or just spend the extra funds and grab a Roadster that has more options. I love the sounds of the Roadster cleans..and the dirty definitely reminds me of the older 2-channels that actually have some tightness and warmth. I'm really looking to pair either of these Rec's up with one of my Mark III's into my rig for the road.

Maybe you folks can help me make up my mind. Any input is very much appreciated. Thanks for your time!

~Nep~

 

[domct203]

IMO how an amp sounds and how it feels to play are two completely different things. If you were fighting that much with the single Recto, they just might not be the right amp for you.

Personally, I've always found the Single Recto to be the thinest and fizzy-est of the Recto family, and the Triple to be the punchier and tighter one.

If you can find a Roadster locally, go play it. You need to not only hear it, but feel how it interacts with you and your gear.

For me, I don't get nuts over the whole 2-ch vs. 3-ch thing. I think the differences are subtle to the ear and most people can't tell the difference between them anyway.

Dom

 

[Neptical]

Dom...brotherman- I've played them all at one time or another. I'm just coming to seek some help to hopefully make up my mind,basically. Your right, the Single Rec is the fizzest of them all..by a long shot. I had problems getting rid of it since it was a gift from my folks, but the time came and I couldn't even stand looking at the amp in my house anymore. I've always like the tones of the older Recs when they first came out in the 90s. To my ears, I really think they were tighter and way warmer and punchier then the later models. The later models seem too saggy and loose.

I really like the Roadster alot. It's a sweet sounding amp, but I'd be throwing the extra cash in for that over the 2-channel..when basically all I really want to use it for is dirty channel..and maybe some cleans. I'm asking if I should even bother throwing out the extra cash for the Roadster or just stick with the 2-channel.

~Nep~

 

[Yetti]

Ill take you through a quick and rambling last 5 but really 2 years in my life finding myself in a similar situation till i made it where i am now. Hope i dont bore you too much.

To me the roadster is a versatility machine, Has probably the greatest cleans on boogies, can cover bluesy stuff extremely easy with this amp, if anything i think that is what this amp favors...IMO. People may call me crazy but this amp has tons of ways to get you great bluesy, overdriven ones.
When it comes to the heavy stuff you have a **** load of options. With Switching between Vintage/Modern on the high gain stuff your in the pocket for tones you dream of. Get you some Killswitch really easy. But i found myself having a harder and harder time enjoying this amp, for the heavy stuff.

Im a guy who likes options like ALOT of them (so i thought) i started with a Quad Preamp and a Stereo 395 Power amp as my first big setup in 2005. For a quick description, Teh Quad is 2 amps on top of each other to be "Voiced" as A Mark IIC+ and a Mark III. With this you have options and can blend channels together so like Rhythm on the C+ wih the rhythm III at the same time or clean with a rhythm and still have your eq sliders. Pair it with spliting **** stereo and the 395 had nobs for Pulling Deep, Or Driving half the power or all ******* 900 watts or whatever. I could put this through a totoal of 8 4x12s was a pretty insane setup for little me.
Let the Record state im a massive Metallica or more James Hetfield Fan boi. So i was in Metallica Heaven with this amp.
Fast forward to in a band situation we had a pretty modern sound and i always fought with having enough lowend punch and felt i was stuck in the 80s with my sound.

SO i looked to a roadster played it and Channel 3 had that crushing tone that i got a bonner for. tons of options again.
But after the honey moon effect went away i found myself fighting my ears to get that tone i hear in my head out of the roadster. It was aggravating i couldn't enjoy playing my guitar, all i heard was squishy untight mess. was never the fizzy people talk about. But channel 3 and 4 on modern had some crushing low end and did sound great but still had mud to me.
I spent and lost alot of money on gear trying to get everything to make it sound right. New Cabs, New guitars, Different eqs an EQ IS THE KEY, get one if you are a tone nut every guitar player should have one in his rig.

Again im a Hetfield Freak, and i looked to possibly getting a Triple Rectifier for the extra headroom, cuz the stuff i play is downtuned and seven string so 150 watts made some sense and i also dig Bullet for my Valentines tone Tight and Crunchy, and they use Peavy 6505+ and Triple Rec so i figured bingo, and went back in the metallica librarys of rehersal and studio videos and i see they were using old 2 channel Triples Black face ones, got my research done and read all the opinions on 2 vs 3 channels and specifically the revisions. And Boom i was sold Get a triple for half the price of my Roadster, get teh tightness i want and that "Tone" Sure im sacrificing all the options i like to have but, really in a live metal situation you shouldnt need more than heavy and clean. I found a way to get my options back which ill clear up in a few.
After having this Black Face Triple Which is a Revision F for maybe 6 months now... I cant be happier actually, wish it didnt take me this long to figure every thing out but you gotta learn from experience i guess. Just listen to those Black Face Duals in that triplet shoot out. And ho my god.
To get my options back i now have a MIDI EQ i can set up to 99 channels with a different eq. Boosting mids boosting anything. Problems solved by eq.

So after all that rambiling hopefully i didnt bore you, but in order to help you decide i guess i can tell you to just play what you play and play it loud to see which suits your style better, Being that i came from a Roadster and after reading here im not the only one that had problems with it not being tight enough, its much darker than regular duals. I moved to the Blackface and am so happy i did, and i always find myself thinking i dont need to buy anything else this is everything i could have needed i feel this time maybe true.

-Yetti

 

[Neptical]

Yetti: Thanks for your reply my friend. To be honest, I have been thinking in the direction of the old Blackface DR lately. Yeah, I'm gonna loose all the Roadster options, but really all I'm looking to get is that nice big tight Rec crunch with maybe a little bit of cleans (which are extremely nice on my III). While setting it up with my Mark III head, I won't need any other options. I'm just looking to get best of both worlds. I get very,very sweet leads and rhythm with the III, and throwing an old Blackface DR in stereo will cover all the grounds I'll ever want.

~Nep~

 

[YellowJacket]

Can't go wrong with an old 2 channel blackface dual. I love my Rev F to pieces!

 

[siggy14]

Doesnt have to be black face, any of the older two channel duals sound killer.

Can't go wrong with an old 2 channel blackface dual. I love my Rev F to pieces!

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

The 2 channels are different, but it's really hard to say they're better. I've been tempted to go back to a 2 channel, but in the end, when I play the Roadster again, I just can't let it go.

-The cleans are AMAZING...I can not begin to say how much I love this clean channel...makes sense as it is based off of what is Mesa's best clean amp.

-The rectifier and wattage switching is a GREAT feature for fine tuning versatility. Getting a more vintage sound just doesn't get there 100% with the stiff response of diodes...switching is awesome! With the two channel, there is a HUGE compromise. To get the recto high gain dialed in, the other channel is really just going to be a weak off-shoot.

-I seriously think anyone that says the roadster isn't tight either can't dial it in, or has a 'looser' playing style that doesn't gel with the amp's response. I can get Channel 4 modern 90% as right as my Mark IV...it's obviously not the same tone, but the response to my picking is there. I'm planning to post a new video soon for anyone interested.

**Playing style, pick attack, and technique are something I think don't get mentioned enough when talking about these amps. I have a quick and hard hitting hand...I can make an unboosted recto sound really tight with how I play. When I hand my guitar over to my friend through my rig, everything turns to mud...he has a much more polite attack, and everything muddies up.

The 2 channels sound cool. IMO though, the Roadster can get those same dirty sounds, while giving you OTHER tones that are just as good. That, the 2 channel can't do.

Eric

 

[BostonRedSox]

I agree ibanez4life!sz.

The Roadster is more a bridge to what the 2 channel and the 3 channels each respectively sound like. The three channels were created because people felt the 2two channels didn't "cut" through the mix enough. Hence, the reason that the three channel models have the increased presence and "fizz." The two channels do sound great, but they are voiced much lower in the midrange. The Roadster is similar to both in that you can two channel voiced gain. A lot of people will classify the Roadster as dark, but that isn't entirely the truth. Channel 4 MODERN alleviates this, with its increased presence control. I personally keep the presence almost off, but if I did set it high on channel 4 MODERN (3 o'clock), pushed the treble, backed off the gain and bass, I'd have close to the tones present in the current three channel Rectos. The Roadster also has the TWEED and BRIT settings, which give the user a further upper midrange tone and feel. People often dismiss these modes as crunch/distortion modes -- I actually sometimes use these for cleans, set to 100 watts, when I want a brighter feel.

I don't see how this is even a debate. Seriously. I feel that the Roadster far outshines the two channel Rectos in every possible way. The Roadster, to really master it, takes the user to do two things patiently -- read the manual (to understand the amp and its functions/controls), and spend time utilizing that knowledge through playing.

ibanez4life!sz is correct that the player will really influence how the Roadster sounds. For my settings, and for my touch, the Roadster works beautifully for me. For my other guitarist, when he plays my amp he seems to solidify his hate for Mesa amps. It just doesn't sound the same.

The Roadster's reverb is also another thing that makes its cleans the best around. I usually utilize the factory "skinny skank" setting on channel 2, with the reverb around 11am -- my cleans are just spanky clean and very Fendery.

I am admittedly a Roadster fanatic.

 

[Neptical]

Thanks for the replies so far, fellas.

The addition of a 2-channel Rec to my Mark III rig is *only* to expand on my tonal palette. I'm completely happy with both of my III's, and thus would be my amp of choice if I were to keep just one. Believe me, I don't need another amp what so ever by any means. I'm just looking to tie a Rec into my rig because I know I'll have it there when I want it. As a musician of 24+ years, I'm greatly influenced by many different sounds and like having the options. I tend to write a bit differently for each amp I play, which creates many different moods and textures for each song. Of course many years of becoming a gearhead doesn't really help either.

~Nep~