Are stock Roadster tubes really that bad?

[Bobby_E]

I haven't changed the tubes in my Roadster (I'm a Mesa noob) and I've read all over these forums that stock Mesa tubes just aren't great.

What's the voice here? What tubes are you running in your Rectifiers in general? Is anyone using the stock Mesa tubes and actually liking them?

 

[wildrat666]

I think mesa stock tubes sound good. ok you can maybe change the sound with other pre amps tubes but people talks alot about jjs and I hate those. sounds dull and boring. jjs powertubes sounds great though

the most important is what U think!!!!!!!!!!!!! do u like the way your amp sounds?????

Ive got a roadster with stock tubes and a dual recto with EH tubes .both sounds great

 

[jdurso]

For one I've learned changing out your preamp tubes has more of an effect than changing your power tubes. The stock Mesa power tubes to me are fine, the only thing you can do is try different types of tubes Mesa doesnt offer (KT77s, KT88s etc.). Preamp tubes on the other hand is a waaaaaaayyyyy different story. When you haven't tried some quality NOS tubes and mroe importantly the RIGHT combination of NOS preamp tubes, you dont know what you're missing. I have never heard a recto sound as good as mine does right now, and that has a lot to do with my preamp tube configuration. Shred shed some light on this a while ago... the Recto is a great platform for getting different sounds with different tubes in certain slots. After my tests in my recto we tried some of the same tubes in my buddies Fender Twin but the changes weren't as dramatic. For instance I've tried many tubes in V1 of my Roadster and depending on the characteristic of the tube the Roadster, especially the headroom and high/mid complexity.

So no the stock tubes aren't bad, but there maybe better tubes for certain people that want the certain character of their amp but with a more refined sound, especially in terms of the highs/mids and harmonic complexity.

 

[fjk1138]

I just got my Roadster yesterday, and personally I think it sounds awesome with the stock tubes. Granted, they are brand new, but I can't really see myself wanting to try other tubes later on except to replace a faulty one. When I had a Triple Rec prior to this, I only used the stock tubes and never had to replace anything after 5 years of average use, and they sounded fine also.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Tubes are like cheeseburgers. The Mesas are Big Macs, cheap, reliable, consistent. The NOS Mullards, Tung-Sols, Telefunkens, etc., are the Double Doubles.

 

[jdurso]

I just got my Roadster yesterday, and personally I think it sounds awesome with the stock tubes. Granted, they are brand new, but I can't really see myself wanting to try other tubes later on except to replace a faulty one. When I had a Triple Rec prior to this, I only used the stock tubes and never had to replace anything after 5 years of average use, and they sounded fine also.

Like i said you dont know what your missing until you take the plunge :wink:

Actually I would recommend not taking the dive if your satisfied because as rewarding as it is, finding replacements and the righ configuration can be frustrating as hell :evil:

 

[Anonymous]

@jdurso
In another topic covering a unsatisfied Roadster user, you also mentioned the NOS tubes. Basically you said that the right pre-amp tubes could loose the fizz the rectifiers are famous for, while maintaining the overall character of the amp.
Since this topic is about the tubes maybe you could tell a bit more about which tubes you've chosen, and most of all why (like more headroom, or more upper mids). I mean, I'm a total n00b there, so I'm very interested in what the tubes do in the different preamp stages.

 

[jdurso]

@jdurso
In another topic covering a unsatisfied Roadster user, you also mentioned the NOS tubes. Basically you said that the right pre-amp tubes could loose the fizz the rectifiers are famous for, while maintaining the overall character of the amp.
Since this topic is about the tubes maybe you could tell a bit more about which tubes you've chosen, and most of all why (like more headroom, or more upper mids). I mean, I'm a total n00b there, so I'm very interested in what the tubes do in the different preamp stages.

While I dont know exactly what causes the fizz, I do know by really focusing the tube characteristics that i put in V1, V2 and V6 can really make it minimal or disappear totally. In the past I have found with stock tubes you really have to mind where you put your gain, treble and presence. So from the little i have picked up from guys like Mav212 and Shred, V1 and V6 (or what ever slot is your phase inverter) is where you can get the most control out of you gain, treble and presence.... so thats where i put the most focus.

In V1 I wanted the most headroom i could possibly imagine and realised after some initial experiemnts I'm not into early preamp breakup. Early preamp breakup while it can yield better tones at lower volumes and a very smooth high end, provided too much compression and caused that tube to clip alot earlierhence killing the headroom. I also noticed that with too much headroom or with the wrong tube characteristics your highs could sound stiff and nasily. So after much experiementing I ended up with a Sylvania 12ax7 short plate... plenty of headroom and a very nice high end structure with some strength in the mids. It really makes the cleans super sweet and gets me more of a bold, clear high gain rather than super saturated.... for the extra saturation I use an OD. ialso just bought a Siemens ecc83 short plate to try in v1 as well.... you'll see why when I explain V2.

In V2 i focused primarily on the mid characteristics of the amp... what i found is V2 can make or break the not only your mids but the "character" of your amp. I ended up putting a Siemens ecc83 long plate here as it has the most musical mids of any tube I tried in that slot. They are very complex, very musical, not too strong as to create too much warmth, but just right for me. Most importantly they make the amp very clear... and for me even in high gain clarity is important. I have tried various Mullards here and while i find it makes the amp very warm and lets it rip for lead stuff, i found the mids too strong, too warm which had almost a dulling effect on the amp.

In V6, the phase inverter slot on the Roadster, i found could make or break the presence of the amp. Put a tube that has a spikey treble and your in fizz central... a tube thats too warm makes the amp sound dull and sort of lifeless. I ended up with a Matsushita 12ax7 here as the it has plenty of highs to not make the amp sound dull, but the highs have a very nice roll off and are not spikey so it keeps the fizz really to a minimum unless I turn the presence knob past 2 oclock, but to be honest it never gets above 12 oclock and thats only on cleans 9which si where i like some presence).

The other slots really take a back seat to those 3 from what i can tell. V3 in my experience would determine how much bass you had on tap, but in the end all depending on what was in V1 and V2. For instance I have a GE Long Plate in v3 and that tube has a lot of bass but its a very defined bass, with lots of clarity. So what I end up getting is bass frequencies with a huge amount of depth but also a lot of punch and clarity. But if i mix this tube with warmer tubes in V1 or V2, the bass can overwhelm the amp and you lose your edge in the high end. If I use a extremely warm tube in V3 the amps tends to have a muddier bass. So for me it was important to make sure what I had in v1 and v2 had enough treble and mids to counterbalance the extreme bass of the GE long plate. So as you can see there an actual chemistry there between the frequencies in the preamp. But dont only think in terms of highs, mids and lows.... 2 tubes may have the same amoutn of somethin, but present that soemthing with different character. I have found siemens and some mullards to be very similar in the amount of mids they have, but i find the mullards warmer, while the siemens are clearer. Again these are just observations as I am no tube expert.

The other two clots V4 and V5 are your FX Loop and reverb tubes respectively. Your choice there has a lot to do with the characteristic of the tube. If you wnat to warm up your effects a warmer tube in V4 is probably your best bet. If you wnat clarity then a very clear tube is probably your best bet. Same goes for the reverb.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow! Thanks man! I just learned a lot. Also found the Tube subforum, and have been reading a bit there.
You know, the main reason for asking is that I'm saving up for either a Roadster or a Mark V. (3K Euro's over here...) I'm leaning towards the Roadster since I really dig those recto rythms. Only the fizz in the leads might be a dealbreaker, hence the 'smooth' Mark V as second option. Since just now I discovered that experimenting with preamp tubes might be the solution to making the Roadster smooth enough for leads, although I will surely test both of the amps a lot to make sure I'll buy the right one for me.

@Bobby_E, sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[fluff191]

The Mesa tubes have always seemed a little "flabby" and loose to my ears. You get a generally good sound, but other brands sound more focused and tight. Just my opinion. And Im generalizing haha.

 

[Old BF Shred]

For one I've learned changing out your preamp tubes has more of an effect than changing your power tubes.

Wow! Just goes to show that everyone runs into different situations/circumstances.
I believe this to be absolutely true for this individual, but I have seen almost the opposite.

While changing preamp tubes did make a very noticeable difference in my Ace, the power tubes (that is, getting away from the stock str447) made a greater difference, IMHO.

Granted, in my example, we are talking the el34's, not 6l6. I have used Mesa 6l6 in my 50/50 and was happy with them.
So if you stick to the 6l6, you may be just as well off with the Mesa's. But I don't shop for 6l6 anymore since I converted my 50/50 to use el34.

All I can really tell you is you won't know until you try. Listen to input from folks here on the forum as it can give you some idea where to start, but really, when all is said and done, you are just going to have to "bite the bullet" and buy some new tubes to try.

Then, and only then, will you know what sounds good to you.
Good luck

 

[jdurso]

For one I've learned changing out your preamp tubes has more of an effect than changing your power tubes.

Wow! Just goes to show that everyone runs into different situations/circumstances.
I believe this to be absolutely true for this individual, but I have seen almost the opposite.

While changing preamp tubes did make a very noticeable difference in my Ace, the power tubes (that is, getting away from the stock str447) made a greater difference, IMHO.

Granted, in my example, we are talking the el34's, not 6l6. I have used Mesa 6l6 in my 50/50 and was happy with them.
So if you stick to the 6l6, you may be just as well off with the Mesa's. But I don't shop for 6l6 anymore since I converted my 50/50 to use el34.

All I can really tell you is you won't know until you try. Listen to input from folks here on the forum as it can give you some idea where to start, but really, when all is said and done, you are just going to have to "bite the bullet" and buy some new tubes to try.

Then, and only then, will you know what sounds good to you.
Good luck

Well from experimenting with different amps (Fender, Peavey) with the NOS tubes I have, I found it depends on the amp. Shred has also said that you may not hear as much difference with a different amp design. What i can say for sure that the Recto preamp circuit is very good at projecting the character of a preamp tube... my guess would be maybe the Ace isn't one of those amps.