Are good cables REALLY worth the extra dosh?

[KH Guitar Freak]

Silver is a better conductor than copper in the ideal world. However, to purify silver is a more difficult task than copper, and much more expensive too. Also, the silver wiring would be more susceptible to oxidisation, whereas copper would be less so...

 

[elvis]

The conductivity of silver is higher than copper. BUT not by much. To use a guitar application, a 20-foot piece of 24-gauge copper wire is about 0.52 Ohms. For silver, the same wire would be 0.48 Ohms.

Driving that cable into a 1Meg Ohm guitar amp input will give a drop in signal of 0.000052% for Copper and 0.000048% for Silver. No way you'll hear that.

Driving into a really junky FX pedal with 20k input impedance, the drop will be 0.0026% for Copper and 0.0024% for Silver. No way you'll hear that.

For reference, 1dB is 10%.

Combined with 20pF capacitance to ground, 0.52 Ohms causes significant frequency change at 15.3GHz (15 BILLION Hertz). Combined with a 1uF coupling capacitor, the filter effect (assuming zero input impedance, which is impossible) is around 300kHz. For a real system it is in the GHz range again.

Copper and Silver both oxidize. This can cause MANY Ohms of resistance at the plug, and can also cause intermittent contact. Gold does not oxidize nearly as much, and can make a more reliable contact. Outside of plug/jack pairs, it is not so good because it is higher resistance than copper.

It is questionable whether or not gold is useful if the plug is gold-coated, but the jack is not. This is almost always the case when using gold cables. The jack still oxidizes.

 

[capnlee]

I read through this whole thread and was surprised to see that no one mentioned Whirlwind cables. This may sound strange, but I haven't bought a guitar cable in probably 10 years (maybe more). All of my cables are either Whirlwind or custom made cables from a local guitar shop. None of these cables broke the bank, but they weren't "budget" cables either. I've had enough cheap, noisy and prone to short out cables in my time. I had one Monster guitar cable and it developed a short in no time at all. I'm sure this isn't typical of Monster cables, but it put a bad taste in my mouth after forking over some significant dough for what was supposed to be a good cable. No more Monster and no more cheap cables for me. The way the quality of things changes these days I don't even know if Whirlwind still makes a good cable, but I know all the wws I bought between 10 and 20 years ago are still going strong, and they get used heavily.

 

[gonzo]

still using my .225 diameter George L's cables, and quite happy.
since 1980, haven't found another cable i liked better.
yea, there are better cables, if you've got money to waste.

 

[barfly]

I've been through a bunch and I notice................nothing different in sound. I see the better
cables last longer is all.

 

[94Tremoverb]

For *tone*, the only factors that make any difference are:

Guitar cables - capacitance. *Not* resistance - the resistance of a guitar cable is about 1 ohm or so at most; it connects a source impedance of a few tens of Kohms to an input impedance of a few hundred Kohms, so the resistance of the cable is completely insignificant. But the capacitance very much does matter - it's a few percent of the values in the guitar circuitry and *larger* than the input capacitance of the amp usually. It also acts as a simple resonant circuit when combined with the inductance of the pickup coil, so it actually 'tunes' the sound by changing the frequency and height of the resonant peak slightly. The capacitance is responsible for the genuine and easily audible differences in guitar cables. (It's also directly related to length, so short cables inherently have less capacitance than long ones.)

Speaker cables - the quality of the connectors. The capacitance is irrelevant in a non-shielded cable and the resistance is still too small to matter compared to that of the speakers. (Assuming the cable is at least of adequate gauge.) But the connector quality can make a small difference - cheap connectors can have flimsy parts and too much contact resistance.

Power cables: none. (Assuming at least of adequate gauge.)

These are all provable with blind testing or direct real-time A/B switching, no matter what any snake oil salesmen will tell you.

The quality of the cable and the way it's made can make a big difference to the reliability though.

 

[Given To Fly]

When I bought my first Tremoverb, the seller thru in a Mogami Gold Instrument Cable (W2524/Neutrik).

I compared this cable to every cable I had in my bag.

Hands down... NO comparison. I now use nothing but Mogami Gold for signal chain and make my own cables using Mogami W2319/Neutrik for switching FXLoops and Channels on the amps (Mesa foot switches that come with amps). I also use the W2319/Neutrik for my volume pedal that runs into the GMajor.

I am building a pedal board and will use nothing but Mogami for that too. I also ordered all Neutrik Gold locking jacks for signal and Switchcraft for switching. I ordered bulk W2524 and W2319 for signal and switching respectively.

I don't claim to be all knowing, but I do hear a difference.

Hope this helps.

I'm the same way! Whether its an XLR cable or guitar cable, I only buy Mogami Golds. The reason why is slightly different though. I used to have a true melting pot of a cable collection; something I had amassed over a 10 year period. I didn't really know what I had or what worked. So I decided, "I don't ever want to worry about cables again." So with Mogami's positive reputation and lifetime warranty I decided that would be the way to go. Now I know exactly how many cables I have as well as the type and length. Some people might think I'm a bit OC about it, I just don't want to spend time thinking about cables.

 

[thunda1216]

For *tone*, the only factors that make any difference are:

Guitar cables - capacitance. *Not* resistance - the resistance of a guitar cable is about 1 ohm or so at most; it connects a source impedance of a few tens of Kohms to an input impedance of a few hundred Kohms, so the resistance of the cable is completely insignificant. But the capacitance very much does matter - it's a few percent of the values in the guitar circuitry and *larger* than the input capacitance of the amp usually. It also acts as a simple resonant circuit when combined with the inductance of the pickup coil, so it actually 'tunes' the sound by changing the frequency and height of the resonant peak slightly. The capacitance is responsible for the genuine and easily audible differences in guitar cables. (It's also directly related to length, so short cables inherently have less capacitance than long ones.)

Speaker cables - the quality of the connectors. The capacitance is irrelevant in a non-shielded cable and the resistance is still too small to matter compared to that of the speakers. (Assuming the cable is at least of adequate gauge.) But the connector quality can make a small difference - cheap connectors can have flimsy parts and too much contact resistance.

Power cables: none. (Assuming at least of adequate gauge.)

These are all provable with blind testing or direct real-time A/B switching, no matter what any snake oil salesmen will tell you.

The quality of the cable and the way it's made can make a big difference to the reliability though.

8) This.

 

[Markedman]

I recently bought new cables, Live wire premium. I had monster cables, not the extra expensive ones, they were about $30. Did I notice a difference? Huge difference in clarity and dynamic range. The first thing I noticed was the lack of hiss, second was the brightness where I had to adjust the tone quite a bit, as a matter of fact it has been about a month and I still don't have the tone where I want it yet, that's how much a difference cables have made for me. The third thing was when I moved around, the cable didn't make a sound when it scraped against the floor. The unshielded amp to speaker cable was about 30 years old and the patch cables were mixed. The amp to speaker cable made the biggest difference, I know this because it was the last one I bought and I purposely did a before and after with my son and his guitar playing friend judging the cables since they got them for me at GC. I haven't measured the capacitance of the new cables but I'll assume they're much lower than the old ones. I only use a few effects anyway, I've noticed the more effects and cables I have in the signal, no matter the quality, the less guitar tone gets through.

 

[mesaboogie6L6]

I really like the way Monster Rock's are made, if you look at the connectors, they are encapsulated in very hard clear plastic, and they are flexible, I've stepped on them and it doesn't phase them at all. I bought my first Monster Rock in 2000, still have it as my main cable, well built and are guaranteed for LIFE.

 

[brand0n]

i hear the coily ones are all the rage

 

[zoeyku]

I always get CBI Cables.

 

[knotts]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I was talking to the new guy at guitar center and he told me that cables made up like 50% of my tone...so there you have it. Don't waste your money on guitars or amps or any of that stuff. Just buy really expensive cables...

I may have posted this before but I'm still laughing about it.

 

[Given To Fly]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I was talking to the new guy at guitar center and he told me that cables made up like 50% of my tone...so there you have it. Don't waste your money on guitars or amps or any of that stuff. Just buy really expensive cables...

50% :shock:
If you have enough tone in your fingers you won't need a guitar; just play the cable.

 

[Jackie]

Does that mean I lose 50% of my tone if I have a really good wireless?!? :shock:

 

[sprocket]

It might ! lol .

 

[scott7d]

I consider myself to have a decent ear at this point when it comes to noticing small differences in tone. With that being said, can't say if you switch out all my cables on me that I would really notice anything.

 

[scoobyzjr]

I have had the same 20' Monster cable for 10 years. I recently purchased a 10' Lava cable. I like the Monster cable better and was cheaper. Maybe I did not like the Lava cable as much, because it was too stiff.

 

[Markedman]

Cheap/lousy cables make a lot of noise when scraped across a floor. They tend to work intermittently at the worst time and wear out quickly. They add noise, and radio interference is enhanced because of cheap shielding and low quality wire. Any pro guitarist, unless they're just sitting there looking, sounding and acting like a toad, will benefit from quality anything, especially the small stuff like cables. Of course. instrument cables are different than speaker cables but length is crucial, more so with speaker cables, but there is a reason 18' 6" is optimum, not 100' for an instrument cable. Don't believe me? Grab a 100' speaker cable, hook it from head to cabinet, listen to the sound. Now put a live-wire elite 8 gage 4' cable in it's place and tell me you can not immediately hear a huge difference. Seriously, this shouldn't even really be up for debate, it's incredible this question gets so many different opinions. Quality cables are so important to my tone.

 

[jpistolas]

I have had the same 20' Monster cable for 10 years. I recently purchased a 10' Lava cable. I like the Monster cable better and was cheaper. Maybe I did not like the Lava cable as much, because it was too stiff.

I've had a similar experience. Owned the same 15' Spectraflex for nearly 15 yrs. Gigged with it and never had to replace it at a single show. No noise and never one failure. Same solder joints as when I bought it. It's braided and tangles way less than the regular cables I have. I do however use George L's for my pedals and NO I don't solder them. If you put the ends on correctly and your pedals/jumpers are secured well & don't move they hold up fine. Never repaired one of those at a show either.

Basically reliability is my goal when buying cables. Thinking you hear differences is more snake oil mojo bs. Again, just my opinion.