Anything plugged into MIV Loop creates Tone Loss?

[fpoon]

I tried the TC Electronics G-Major, set it up without any effects on in my Mark IV and then unplugged it from the loop with just the Mark IV Lead Channel by itself to see if there would be a change in my tone.

There was quite a difference. Without the G-Major plugged into the loop my sound was clearer and had more punch like always, where as when it was plugged in without the effects turned on, it still sounded good but it was less clear etc.

Does this mean anything in the Mark IV's loop will create some sort of tone loss?

 

[MusicManJP6]

I have experienced the same thing with my MKIV. It seems to be the case with anything running through the loop. True Bypass would help, but when an effect is turned on even with true bypass, it will coz tone suck.

 

[Rampage]

You have to adjust the levels on the G-Major to compensate. I had mine around 3 o'clock and it sounded perfect through the loop on the Mark IV.

 

[Pinweaver]

I don't hear a difference in tone with my delay pedals, a DD3A and a Memory Lane, in the loop.

That you can experience a volume drop with certain things is normal, but once you adjust their level/volume controls it should be ok.

 

[6L6C]

Fpoon & MusicManJP6
You may want to consider have your loop modified from a series loop (which it is now) to a parallel loop.

 

[MusicManJP6]

6L6C, is that something that we can do, or would it be over our heads? And I thought a series loop was the better loop for less tone loss, and Mesas have a parallel. I'm assuming I'm wrong given your last statement?

 

[6L6C]

MusicManJP6

I really don’t know what is involved but I did look into it a few years back and it can be done but I’m not sure what is involved (other things kept me busy so never had it done). I had my caps done about 6 months ago and looking into the chassis while it was open it’s not something I’m going to try, or by myself at least. I need adult supervision! (I’m 43 BTW)

As far as the loops, when engaged and in series all signal goes through the processor (including your direct signal) so even your direct signal goes through the processor so it gets converted to digital and then back to analog on the way out the processor. (So basically two conversion processes that you can do without)

With a parallel loop your processor taps the signal does it thing sends it back to the amp and the amp combines the direct signal (which never went through the processor) with the effect signal. When using a parallel turn the direct signal on whatever processor OFF the only thing you want coming out of that processor is effect. I think IMHO this is why some people curse there parallel loops.

I still use a series loop on my Mark IV a parallel can be a bit of a balancing act at times (nothing major though) I don’t have a problem with my series loop so I left it alone does it color a bit YES if I sit in front of the amp and A/B test everything yes even with a very good processor there is a little difference. But in my case could I tell if I walked into the room, no. I also use to have all of these test I use to run to balance the processor to the rest of the amp (but I’m a bit nut’s)

You and fpoon my also want to change out some of your preamp tubes, they can cause a problem with the loop. You might want to do a search on the forum for I am no expert. I believe v4 has something to do with the loop, got a extra rip it out and give it a whirl!

 

[6L6C]

MusicManJP6
Almost forgot parallel loops work real well with time based effects such as (reverd, delay, flanger, phase, chorus).

Dynamic effects however such as compression, distortion, EQ don’t work well with a parallel loops.
By nature these devices are designed to manipulate the entire signal, not part of it. Time based effects basically process and add to the direct signal) You could crank the mix of the loop to 100% but then you have a glorified series loop.
I’m sure you see why allot of people prefer series loop as opposed to parallel.

 

[Random Hero]

Fpoon & MusicManJP6
You may want to consider have your loop modified from a series loop (which it is now) to a parallel loop.

This is funny - you'll see the exact opposite statement over on the Modern Amps forum regarding folks and their Rectos. They all want series loops.

To the original poster,
I notice it a little yeh, but it's a great loop, IMO. Aslong as you set the levels correctly, it's really not that bad. Nowhere near as bad as putting your guitar through a non-true bypass wah before your amp.

 

[6L6C]

Fpoon & MusicManJP6
You may want to consider have your loop modified from a series loop (which it is now) to a parallel loop.

This is funny - you'll see the exact opposite statement over on the Modern Amps forum regarding folks and their Rectos. They all want series loops.

HA HA HA
Random Hero

Yeah I know it’s funny I guess that old saying is true.
“the grass is always greener on the other side”
As for me although I did look into it and it can be done I ended up leaving it alone

 

[Maldeve]

I tried the TC Electronics G-Major, set it up without any effects on in my Mark IV and then unplugged it from the loop with just the Mark IV Lead Channel by itself to see if there would be a change in my tone.

There was quite a difference. Without the G-Major plugged into the loop my sound was clearer and had more punch like always, where as when it was plugged in without the effects turned on, it still sounded good but it was less clear etc.

Does this mean anything in the Mark IV's loop will create some sort of tone loss?

Fpoon

Could you do me a favor and record a sound clip with the Mark lead channel completely clean. Then again going through the G-Major with no effects and turned off?
Really would like to hear the diffrence, My mark IV is on the way and I'm really looking into buying a G-Major.

 

[eltrain858]

i don't find any noticeable tone suck running my loop through an mxr flanger, mojo vibe and boss dd-20

 

[fpoon]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Like RandomHero said, the difference isn't that big but with good ears it is there.

Maldeve:

The store actually let me borrow it for one day for free which was really generous of them because I just wanted to see if it was worth getting so I'm sorry I can't record anything now (My only recording gear btw is an MP3 Microphone lol, which is still good I guess since you can still hear the overall tone without much change to it). I did manage to record 2 clips with the effects. I'll try and send it soon.

You need some time to get use to it (manual had horrible explanations of how to use the unit IMO, especially for one day's use so I did all I could). I recommend you get it. It has superb effects! I thought it would mess my tone up on the lead channel with high gain and everything but it actually didn't, sounded awesome!

RandomHero:

Can you share your levels you used because I'm thinking of getting it, it's just the overall fact that it changed my tone slightly kinda gives me second thoughts. I'm like a perfectionist into getting my ideal tone Also, to get to the EQ of the G-Major, do you need a MIDI pedal because I couldn't turn it on without one since all the options relied on having a pedal. And would enabling the EQ make a difference to my tone?

 

[Random Hero]

Do you have it set to consumer or pro?

My levels are like, input a hair before noon, output at noon, with all of the presets at 0db. The consumer/pro level thing makes a big difference, but I can't remember what mine is set at right now.

You don't need a MIDI board to use the EQ, just set it to - I think it's - EQ Active: ON, and it'll be on. Enabling the EQ will make a difference to your tone, but it won't prevent any perceived tone suckage.

 

[Random Hero]

Fpoon & MusicManJP6
You may want to consider have your loop modified from a series loop (which it is now) to a parallel loop.

This is funny - you'll see the exact opposite statement over on the Modern Amps forum regarding folks and their Rectos. They all want series loops.

HA HA HA
Random Hero

Yeah I know it’s funny I guess that old saying is true.
“the grass is always greener on the other side”

Haha, exactly!

By the way, to the original poster again, you are using decent quality cabling right?

 

[fpoon]

I didn't even know there was a consumer or pro option. For the EQ, the reason I asked was because there was no ON setting but only Off, Learning, Pedal, and CC. I'm using basic $15 cables that make a crackle noise once in a while and the short pedal cables for the loop with the G-Major. Basically I need to spend more time with the unit and get use to all the settings and options it offers. My levels were at three o'clock so maby thats why there was a small difference to my original tone.