Any Mark III+ users out there?

[#2121313]

I have a Simul Red Stripe that I want to send to Boogie to have MB perform the IIC+ Mod to it. I have read a few posts on here before but there's not too much out there regarding the comparison of the III tot the III+. Anyone have this mod that can speak to how it sounded before the mod versus after the mod?

I know it's unanimous that anyone who has played both a C+ and a III will say the C+ is the way to go. I don't want to start a side bar on this subject so I thought I word carefully mention anyone who has actually played both. But is it also unanimous that the a III+ is that much better than a regular III?

Can you get the ++ mod done as well so it'll essentially be a III++?

 

[DaveP]

I have had several III+ mods and have compared both. I was speaking with Mike B on this mod and asked if the stripe made any difference in tone when getting this mod done. For instance would a red stripe sound better with the III+ mod or a green. The reply was they will all sound the same as the mod makes them identical regardless of stripe color.
As for the tone. I preferred the unmodded version. Since I have the C+ already having the Mark III in it's stock form was a a better option. I like the red stripe just they way it is.
The + option smooths out the lead channel and makes closer to the C+ tone. Think of it as a cross between the 2 amps and that's the end result you get with the mod.

 

[SonicProvocateur]

There is no ++ mod to date for the III. It already has more gain on tap than it's predecessors (or so i've heard at least, maybe it's been said the circuits capable of more gain. But i'm not sure if that's even quantifiable, more qualitative. MY R2 + EQ sounds very close to the IIC+ rolled off and the lead has so much gain it's hard to distinguish once it starts cutting, but i've never heard a ++ modded C+ (only on the Metallica albums, and some forum members here say that it can be too much and take away from the amp). My 94 blue has so much gain I have to dial it back on the lead to 6-7, and the Vol to 6-7 to make it not get into fuzzy recto territory.

 

[#2121313]

There is no ++ mod to date for the III. It already has more gain on tap than it's predecessors (or so i've heard at least, maybe it's been said the circuits capable of more gain. But i'm not sure if that's even quantifiable, more qualitative. MY R2 + EQ sounds very close to the IIC+ rolled off and the lead has so much gain it's hard to distinguish once it starts cutting, but i've never heard a ++ modded C+ (only on the Metallica albums, and some forum members here say that it can be too much and take away from the amp). My 94 blue has so much gain I have to dial it back on the lead to 6-7, and the Vol to 6-7 to make it not get into fuzzy recto territory.

Yeah, that's a good point about the gain, I didn't look at it that way. I've never played a C++ but would love to try one out some day!

I have had several III+ mods and have compared both. I was speaking with Mike B on this mod and asked if the stripe made any difference in tone when getting this mod done. For instance would a red stripe sound better with the III+ mod or a green. The reply was they will all sound the same as the mod makes them identical regardless of stripe color.
As for the tone. I preferred the unmodded version. Since I have the C+ already having the Mark III in it's stock form was a a better option. I like the red stripe just they way it is.
The + option smooths out the lead channel and makes closer to the C+ tone. Think of it as a cross between the 2 amps and that's the end result you get with the mod.

Hey Dave, thanks for the feedback. I do like my red stripe I had a blue stripe at one point and this one sounds much better in my opinion. I'm missing my C+ and this III has to go in for a cap job so I was thinkin what the heck, why not explore the II+ mod...My red stripe does have enough gain, I would however like it to be smoother, its smoother than blue stripe was that's for sure.

I think I may give Mesa a call and get things rolling and figure out price and timeline.

 

[DaveP]

I actually had a factory C++ 1 of 12 or so made at Mesa. I didn't care for the mod. The gain boost was extreme (26db) on the Vol1 to the point it made the cleans un-usable if you wanted to switch back and forth.
It also boost the lead channel but only by 6db or so which was ok.

 

[#2121313]

I actually had a factory C++ 1 of 12 or so made at Mesa. I didn't care for the mod. The gain boost was extreme (26db) on the Vol1 to the point it made the cleans un-usable if you wanted to switch back and forth.
It also boost the lead channel but only by 6db or so which was ok.

Yeah my interest would be exclusively for the lead channel, so I may like the ++ mod. I see how it would be unusable on the clean channel though.

 

[boogiemon]

i've got a simul-blue+ that sounds significantly different than my sixty-no-stripe+

I'm not amp tech, but imho, if you change the c27 & c30 cap values i'd say you're most of the way to a III+.

 

[Neptical]

#2121313,

I have a red stripe simul head that's pretty gnarly stock. I'm surprised to hear you want the lead even smoother. I think it sounds great in their stock form. Even better, since these amps are real sensative to tubes, I simply found that even changing up the positions of the tubes or experimenting with new ones will change the tone pretty drastically - either smoothing it out or making it more gritty/harsh. Even throwing a little delay through the loop will sweeten the tone up quite a bit. I'd be interested to hear the results on your decisions. Good luck!

 

[#2121313]

#2121313,

I have a red stripe simul head that's pretty gnarly stock. I'm surprised to hear you want the lead even smoother. I think it sounds great in their stock form. Even better, since these amps are real sensative to tubes, I simply found that even changing up the positions of the tubes or experimenting with new ones will change the tone pretty drastically - either smoothing it out or making it more gritty/harsh. Even throwing a little delay through the loop will sweeten the tone up quite a bit. I'd be interested to hear the results on your decisions. Good luck!

You know my dilemma is this, it definitely needs new tubes, it also needs a cap job, it's an '87 and has the original caps still in it so 24 years later I think it's time. So I'm in Toronto, if I send it out to Boogie to get the caps done I won't have a chance to hear it with the new caps before I decide to go for the C+ mod because of the shipping back and forth. I have had 2 different C+'s in my time and loved them both, one was a 100 watter and the other the Simul (thanks to DaveP actually), I favored the Simul class hands down. So I am familiar with both the III and the IIC+ and favor the C+ so figure why not just get the mod done while the caps are being done.

But on the topic of tubes, what tubes have you found to really smooth out the lead channel? I remember liking winged C's in the power section of my C+...not too sure about the pre amps? I also run EL34's and 6L6 and am thinking of going all 6L6 with the thought that the 6L6's will sound smoother...

 

[Neptical]

Awesome, man. Yeah, give it a shot and see how it sounds. I'd be interested in knowing whatcha think. If it gets you where you want to be, that'll be pretty sweet.

As far as power tubes, Winged =C= 6L6/EL34's are hard to beat. I think they're awesome. I like to keep the EL34 mix in there 'cause I like the way they bite and sing ( especially for leads ) right through the 6L6. The 6L6 definitely give it that oomphy, big articulate sound while retaining the smoothness. Those 2 tubes are definitely the best of both worlds and compliment each other really nice! The =C= EL34 tubes remind me of my old NOS Tesla's.

Without spending alot of money these days on NOS 12AX7's preamp tubes, I've found the newer production of Tung-Sol's,Sovtek LPS,EH, and EH Goldpins work really nice in these amps. I haven't had any problems retaining the smoothness in V3 with either of them. But I really like the Tung-Sol and the Goldpin in there alot.

 

[#2121313]

Awesome, man. Yeah, give it a shot and see how it sounds. I'd be interested in knowing whatcha think. If it gets you where you want to be, that'll be pretty sweet.

As far as power tubes, Winged =C= 6L6/EL34's are hard to beat. I think they're awesome. I like to keep the EL34 mix in there 'cause I like the way they bite and sing ( especially for leads ) right through the 6L6. The 6L6 definitely give it that oomphy, big articulate sound while retaining the smoothness. Those 2 tubes are definitely the best of both worlds and compliment each other really nice! The =C= EL34 tubes remind me of my old NOS Tesla's.

Without spending alot of money these days on NOS 12AX7's preamp tubes, I've found the newer production of Tung-Sol's,Sovtek LPS,EH, and EH Goldpins work really nice in these amps. I haven't had any problems retaining the smoothness in V3 with either of them. But I really like the Tung-Sol and the Goldpin in there alot.

Yeah I agree with the winged C's. I've tried Tung Sol's pre's and the do sound pretty good to me. Any experience with the JJ pre's or the Doug's concoction of pre's?

 

[Neptical]

I didn't really like the JJs in there. Something weird about the feel of those. Kind of dull I guess - especially after having a Tung-Sol or an EH in there. Tonally, those two just have a richer sound. However, the Dougs cocktail is suppose to be pretty nice even though I've never tried it. I still have his tube recommendations in email from some time back that I was meaning to try out. Alas, I guess I was having my own fun experimenting.

 

[#2121313]

I didn't really like the JJs in there. Something weird about the feel of those. Kind of dull I guess - especially after having a Tung-Sol or an EH in there. Tonally, those two just have a richer sound. However, the Dougs cocktail is suppose to be pretty nice even though I've never tried it. I still have his tube recommendations in email from some time back that I was meaning to try out. Alas, I guess I was having my own fun experimenting.

Yeah I've been meaning to try Doug's cocktail of pre amp tubes...that may be something I look further into as well...

 

[JD]

I actually had a factory C++ 1 of 12 or so made at Mesa. I didn't care for the mod. The gain boost was extreme (26db) on the Vol1 to the point it made the cleans un-usable if you wanted to switch back and forth.
It also boost the lead channel but only by 6db or so which was ok.

I have one of those factory C++'s and the mod is footswitchable and i found it great for a lead boost to do soloing. But yeah not very good for rhythm playing to much gain but great for solos.

 

[#2121313]

I actually had a factory C++ 1 of 12 or so made at Mesa. I didn't care for the mod. The gain boost was extreme (26db) on the Vol1 to the point it made the cleans un-usable if you wanted to switch back and forth.
It also boost the lead channel but only by 6db or so which was ok.

I have one of those factory C++'s and the mod is footswitchable and i found it great for a lead boost to do soloing. But yeah not very good for rhythm playing to much gain but great for solos.

Seems to be the general consensus here so far. What kind of music do you play - just curious. see I'd be using my amp for a metal rhythm tone, not new metal but old thrash type so I'm thinkin I'd appreciate the extra gain. We know Hetfield had the ++ mod, and when you look at his amps he has the Volume 1 dialed in at 5, which seems to be inline with his amp having so much more gain. I wonder if a ++ with the Volume 1 at 5 and a stock + with the Volume 1 at 9 would they have the same amount of gain, roughly, assuming they do, the ++ dialed in at 5 may have other characteristics that shine through that the + doesn't have.

I'm just wondering why boost the gain and then dial it back and not use it?

A lot of assumptions and other factors that aren't being mentioned I know, but still just curious...

 

[JD]

I play the old school metal metallica anthrax etc I tried the dialling back on the vol 1 but didn't really make a difference I would just rather use is as a solo boost.

 

[#2121313]

I play the old school metal metallica anthrax etc I tried the dialling back on the vol 1 but didn't really make a difference I would just rather use is as a solo boost.

Nice, you and I are in the same direction then.

So do you find that your C++ dialed back sounds different then a C+ (not sure if you have one or have played one) with the gain set higher? For rhythm, I get the solo boost, that's a no brainer I can see the advantage there.

 

[JD]

It has been a while since i did it I will try it again and get back to you

 

[#2121313]

It has been a while since i did it I will try it again and get back to you

Cool, thanks, looking forward to the results thanks man!

 

[JD]

Sorry I have taken so long
I dialled back the lead drive and turned on the mod and i noticed I lost alot of low end
but it cut a bit better I have posted a crappy you yube video to demonstrate this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r80UrOK5S6k
let me know if you want to me to try anything else.