Another expieriment: 50wts vs 100wts in my T-verb combo

[tele_jas]

I was playing Saturday night and was really enjoying my tone, but I noticed it was cracking up a little bit and not as clear as I wanted it so I figured it was the fact that I was running it at 50wts, so on the break I put the extra set of power tubes and the rectifier tube in and put the speaker cable in the 16 ohm output and warned my sound man that the amp may be a lot louder when we start.......

Well, Just before we started I noticed the "Low Battery" light was on on my wireless transmitter and that is why it was sounding a bit fuzzy, not the tubes..... But I had already put the extra tubes in and we were ready to start, so I just went with it and prayed I didn't blow everyones head off with sheer volume. But much to my surprise, it was only slightly louder and not enough to even adjust the monitor mix any. The only thing I noticed was a bit more low end (but that could have been my imagination).

So, when someone asks how much louder 50wts is than 100wts I know the answer to that.. Not much. The difference is when you crank it up LOUD, 50wts will break up sooner than the 100wts and I'm sure the 100wts will crank up a bit more than 50 wts...But 1/3 the way up on 50wts is about the same volume level as 1/3 the way up on 100wts.

Just an observation I thought I'd share with everyone.

 

[TheRazMeister]

Tele, I think that's probably where the confusion comes in. I argued heavily when someone posted a chart showing that a 1 watt amp was 25% as loud as a 100 watter...What you experienced is the clean headroom phenomenom. Clean volume seems to cover more of the ear pain threshold spectrum when turned up. Although I will say this to all the wattage gurus....I was once in a room with a 100 watt Marshall stack on 8 (late 70's) and was forced out of the room if I ever wanted to hear anything ever again. I dare say 4 times the volume of a 1 watt amp wouldn't give me the same effect.

I was playing Saturday night and was really enjoying my tone, but I noticed it was cracking up a little bit and not as clear as I wanted it so I figured it was the fact that I was running it at 50wts, so on the break I put the extra set of power tubes and the rectifier tube in and put the speaker cable in the 16 ohm output and warned my sound man that the amp may be a lot louder when we start.......

Well, Just before we started I noticed the "Low Battery" light was on on my wireless transmitter and that is why it was sounding a bit fuzzy, not the tubes..... But I had already put the extra tubes in and we were ready to start, so I just went with it and prayed I didn't blow everyones head off with sheer volume. But much to my surprise, it was only slightly louder and not enough to even adjust the monitor mix any. The only thing I noticed was a bit more low end (but that could have been my imagination).

So, when someone asks how much louder 50wts is than 100wts I know the answer to that.. Not much. The difference is when you crank it up LOUD, 50wts will break up sooner than the 100wts and I'm sure the 100wts will crank up a bit more than 50 wts...But 1/3 the way up on 50wts is about the same volume level as 1/3 the way up on 100wts.

Just an observation I thought I'd share with everyone.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Tele, I think that's probably where the confusion comes in. I argued heavily when someone posted a chart showing that a 1 watt amp was 25% as loud as a 100 watter...What you experienced is the clean headroom phenomenom. Clean volume seems to cover more of the ear pain threshold spectrum when turned up. Although I will say this to all the wattage gurus....I was once in a room with a 100 watt Marshall stack on 8 (late 70's) and was forced out of the room if I ever wanted to hear anything ever again. I dare say 4 times the volume of a 1 watt amp wouldn't give me the same effect.

I think that it's obvious that you don't understand the relationship between power and volume.....since it was 4 times the volume of a 1 watt amp that did give you that effect.

 

[Gordman]

This has to be THE most misunderstood amplifier concept of all time. Most musicians (and most other people, for that matter) simply don't understand the underlying physics of sound. Perceived volume to the human ear is a function of many factors, such as the number and proximity of speakers, room acoustics, frequencies being projected, etc. However, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL:

- Doubling the wattage results in only a 3dB (barely noticeable) volume increase.

- Doubling the volume requires a 10x increase in wattage. :shock:

A 10-watt amp is 2x as loud as the 1-watt amp (1w x 10). A 100-watt amp is 2x as loud as the 10-watt amp (10w x 10). We've doubled twice, so the 100-watt amp is 4x as loud. Thus, the 1-watt amp indeed has 25% of the volume of the 100-watt amp.

I don't want to sound snooty, but this isn't opinion and it's not debatable. It's simply the way it is, just like 2+2=4.

So the next time you hear someone tell you that their 60-watt amp must be underrated because it sounds more like 100 watts, feel free to educate them. Also be aware that they'll think you're a geek and probably won't like you any more. :lol:

Anyway, sorry for a bit of a rant, but the engineer in me couldn't help chiming in.

 

[tele_jas]

.......... But mine goes to 11, so it's one louder.

 

[Gordman]

That's a special case. I think there's an appendix in the back of the physics book to cover those. :wink:

 

[TheRazMeister]

And the next time someone says that a 30 watt F-30 isn't loud enough and buys an F-100, I'll kindly explain how ridiculous they are and should return the F-100 since the chart tells them it's only slightly louder. For that matter, the heck with the 30 watter, they should just go out and buy a 5 watt Crate V508 or a Pignose...
The point I'm trying to make is that I know at least 1 or 2 of you are gigging musicians, if you want to argue physics...fine ...you win....If you want to argue reality, stand in front of a 100 watt amp and a 30 watt amp and tell me if there is only a 15% increase in volume.

This has to be THE most misunderstood amplifier concept of all time. Most musicians (and most other people, for that matter) simply don't understand the underlying physics of sound. Perceived volume to the human ear is a function of many factors, such as the number and proximity of speakers, room acoustics, frequencies being projected, etc. However, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL:

- Doubling the wattage results in only a 3dB (barely noticeable) volume increase.

- Doubling the volume requires a 10x increase in wattage. :shock:

A 10-watt amp is 2x as loud as the 1-watt amp (1w x 10). A 100-watt amp is 2x as loud as the 10-watt amp (10w x 10). We've doubled twice, so the 100-watt amp is 4x as loud. Thus, the 1-watt amp indeed has 25% of the volume of the 100-watt amp.

I don't want to sound snooty, but this isn't opinion and it's not debatable. It's simply the way it is, just like 2+2=4.

So the next time you hear someone tell you that their 60-watt amp must be underrated because it sounds more like 100 watts, feel free to educate them. Also be aware that they'll think you're a geek and probably won't like you any more. :lol:

Anyway, sorry for a bit of a rant, but the engineer in me couldn't help chiming in.

 

[musicbox]

sound preasure has more to do with the number of speakers than wattage. if you run a 100 watt amp through a 1x12, its not going to be near as loud as a 30 watt amp through a fullstack. as for a gigging musician, yes 100 watts has its place because its going to give you loud headroom. but if its just a matter of sounding loud at any cost, 30 watts will do if you have the speakers.

 

[tele_jas]

Can I delete my topic? :?

 

[LSCMan]

I like the tone way better on the Lonestars with all the tubes in play.

 

[musicbox]

is this with the 34's or the 6l6? or just in general? i find that the tone on my jcm900 is a little...fuller sounding with all 4 6l6's. theres a bit more bass and more 'body' i guess you could say. the louder the amp is cranked, the more difference there is with this, as down around 3 like telejas tested it sounds the same.

here a wierd volume differnece. my 73 deluxe reverb is noticeablyy louder through a 2x12 than my blue angel through either the 2x12 or its own 4x10. the deluxe is 20 watts running on original tubes:shock: (except the 6v6), and the angel is running on 6l6 and el84, which are both brand new(38 watts). can thisi be explained by the simplicity of the deluxe reverbs circuit? surely their shouldnt be any volume difference, or if there was, it would be in the bluel angels favour