After a week my Mesa Mark IV is scaring me

[glenecho]

Well...I've had my Mark IV for a week, and I was warned on the Boogie Board that at first I'd want to sell it...and I do.

Great clean, great rhythm, but no matter what settings I use that lead sound sounds like flabby Carlos Santana city...and that's not the tone I'm going for. I had really hoped that, considering the wide claims of versatility, that I'd be able to tweak a lead sound that sings a little more and tweak this thing's lead tone to not be quite so Boogie-ish (I know that sounds like a contradiction but)...but so far it appears that isn't the case. With my old rig, which was essentially a Pod through a Roland full range amp (and I don't care what you tube snobs say...it sounded good...it was just the usual solid state problem of "we can't hear you") I used a Boogie-ish Frank Gambale type tone and a Robben Ford/EJ type Tube Driver through a Marshall tone. I can get that fusion-y Gambale tone ok, but I'm a million miles away from a touch-sensitive violin tone. Even something approaching that sound would be ok with me...it doesn't have to be nailed. I don't know, I was always told that every little knob setting made such a big difference on the Mark IV, but on the lead channel all settings seem to point to Black Magic Woman and I'm sick of it. Combine that with the fact that the amp only sounds like itself roaringly loud and I can't tweak it for more than 10 minutes without needing a break, and I'm just really frustrated. Another frustration is that tone doesn't even change that much from switching to the front or rear pickups...every pickup on every guitar sounds like a neck pickup with tons of FLAB.

All I've got here is a BadMonkey and a DS-1, but through countless tweakings the OD pedals seem to have NO effect whatsoever in warming the lead tone or tightening the attack. Has anybody had any luck with OD pedals on a Mark IV? I really expected an amp of this quality to take to OD pedals better than it does.

Really getting worried here...if I can't get a tighter non-Santana lead tone out of this thing it's gonna have be put up for sale, yet everything else it does I love.

 

[PRSKILLER]

Well it's not for everybody. I'd say give it a little more time, try some settings on GrailTone page and if still doesn't work you will have no trouble selling it. I had one and I wouldn't mind getting it again, although I would go for the widebody combo.

 

[btown]

how old is the amp? my mark iv from the early ninties sounded really flabby until I replaced the caps.

 

[Aart]

What settings are you using now?

And which player has your desired tone?

 

[glenecho]

What settings are you using now?

And which player has your desired tone?

To summarize the last few questions:

The amp is a brand new Widebody combo. Have no reason to believe that the tubes are a problem...they are quiet and sound great on the other channels.

As far as desired tone goes I'm used to using two different settings on my old rig, but they are modified to sound like ME and not the original players. One would be a Holdsworth/Gambale woody tone, of which the Mark IV delivers nicely. The other would be pretty much an Eric Johnson 400 lb. violin tone, and I just can't even get close and honestly...that was the lead sound I used more often than the former...

This will give you an idea of the latter sound I liked to use...I take the first solo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcz7I-4son0

 

[Random Hero]

I wouldn't describe the lead channel as flab, personally. What Graphic EQ are you using?

 

[ursinus]

One question that we need answered to best help you is what guitar and what pick ups are you using? That will make a big difference in the tone. The MKIV is extremely versatile and took me about 6 mo's to understand its tone potential. Let us know... 8)

 

[Boogiebabies]

What settings are you using now?

And which player has your desired tone?

To summarize the last few questions:

The amp is a brand new Widebody combo. Have no reason to believe that the tubes are a problem...they are quiet and sound great on the other channels.

As far as desired tone goes I'm used to using two different settings on my old rig, but they are modified to sound like ME and not the original players. One would be a Holdsworth/Gambale woody tone, of which the Mark IV delivers nicely. The other would be pretty much an Eric Johnson 400 lb. violin tone, and I just can't even get close and honestly...that was the lead sound I used more often than the former...

This will give you an idea of the latter sound I liked to use...I take the first solo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcz7I-4son0

A new amp with new tubes does not mean that out of the 10 triodes in your amp, one may flake out in the lead channel and alter your tone. Try a spare in the V3 and V4. regarding the type of tone your chasing, the MK IV will get you closer that if you had to buy amps with Fender tone stack and Marshall tone stack topology. They each place the EQ at different points in the preamp. The Fender/Mesa type is early so the bass is flubby over 2-3 where the Marshall has the EQ at the end of the preamp. The feature that gives you the best of both is the graphic EQ. It's a post preamp EQ so it shapes the sound going to the power amp. Also, an open back cab will shoot the majority of the bass out the back making you turn the bass control up too high. For certain tones you might want to try miking open and closed back cabinets. A 1X12 Mesa Thiele with an EV 12L may do the trick.
Most people would kill to have your solo tone.

 

[Platypus]

Don't take this as an insult but this thread is like complaining that you've put together 10 pieces of a 10,000,000 piece puzzle and are frustrated that it isn't complete yet.

There are so many options and different settings on the Mark IV that I'm STILL finding new tones with mine and I've had it for almost 4 months now.

You're trying to take a stomp box and add it to a lead channel that already has way more gain than you can ever possibly need and you expect that to sound good? Talk about squashing your tone..

I suggest you re-read the owner's manual and then do it again once more afterwords... the problems you mention are due to user error. The Mark IV is not an instant gratification amplifier, it takes patience and due dilligence to figure out.

There are some important variables missing here...

1) What guitar are you using and what pickups?
2) Post your settings for all channels and every switch.
3) Describe your GEQ to the best of your ability or take a pic of it


Try this for your lead channel:

Tweed / Mid Gain / Triode / Simul-Class

Lead Gain: 8 (pulled)
Lead Treble: 8.5
Lead Bass: 2.5
Lead Mid: 4.5
Lead Drive: 8 (pulled)
Lead Master: 3
Lead Presence: 7 (pulled)

Master: 1.5

^that is anything but flab, if you still hear it with these settings you've got a tube problem.

Please answer the above variables, it will be a lot easier to help you troubleshoot.

 

[glenecho]

After reading some suggestions in here and on the Gear Page board I'm finally making some headway.

Basically I've pushed in the pots on the lead channel and switched the voicing to "mid". I lowered the bass to 2.5 and made up for it in the GEQ (I'll try to take some pics later). Unfortunately the change in the GEQ will mess up my R1 and R2 settings but I have a much easier time dialing in those 2 channels.

I also lowered the gain and drive knobs down to 6 and 5 and made up for it by raising the level and to a lesser extent, the gain on my BadMonkey pedal. That made a huge difference and Marshall-ized the tone greatly.

For the first time I have a Lead tone I'm willing to play out with...now it's down to the little tweaks (after I take pictures and write down every setting).

Edit: My guitar is a Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy with stock pickups (the bridge pickup is fairly similar sounding to a JB).

 

[fpoon]

Dude, you just had it for a week relax, you expect too much too fast. Your tone will come with time.

 

[JacksonUSA]

I was wondering the same thing about the Mark IV ... I don't own one but based on the clips I heard ... the lead channel is always "clear sounding" if I can say that

personally I'm after something that's a bit more like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPn2lAuMZ9E

again it doesn't have to be the exact same but sort of in the same ballpark

 

[lookslikemeband]

I didn't spend enough time with my first MarkIV, and ended up selling it.

But, as some around here know, I kept coveting one - so eventually I got another one (came in last week).


And the best thing I ever did was sit down, and spend some serious time with it. You have to spend time with the MarkIV and dial in the tone you want - trust me, it's in there.

It will never leave! I love it now!!

 

[devilrob1979]

I was wondering the same thing about the Mark IV ... I don't own one but based on the clips I heard ... the lead channel is always "clear sounding" if I can say that

personally I'm after something that's a bit more like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPn2lAuMZ9E

again it doesn't have to be the exact same but sort of in the same ballpark

So then why not pay half as much and get a Legacy? I had one and that's what they sound like.

 

[glenecho]

I was wondering the same thing about the Mark IV ... I don't own one but based on the clips I heard ... the lead channel is always "clear sounding" if I can say that

personally I'm after something that's a bit more like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPn2lAuMZ9E

again it doesn't have to be the exact same but sort of in the same ballpark

So then why not pay half as much and get a Legacy? I had one and that's what they sound like.

Because the Legacy doesn't have the warm, buttery jazzy clean tone...and I spend a helluva lot more time playing rhythm than lead.

I'm getting there...made great headway tonight. I've got it mostly dialed in but something is still missing when I'm playing up high.

 

[Platypus]

Just be patient, the GEQ is your friend for dialing in your lead tone.

 

[devilrob1979]

Actually the Legacy's clean tone was my favorite thing about that amp but to each their own. I'm sure your tone's lurking somewhere in your MkIV. Give it time to come out. Don't give up.

 

[JOEY B.]

This may be a little "off key", but have you experimented with the tone control on your guitar? Sooooo many people turn the tone knob to "10" and never look back. Give the knob a shot, if you haven't already.

 

[MKIII]

My '84 Schecter Strat is like that; the tone pot has the ability to make my R2 sound like sandpaper or butter, depending on where it's set.

But it's a Schecter and the old one's with Monstertone's were a bit odd like that...

Patience is the key with the MKIV; they start out frustrating and then one day you just hit the sweet spot and then it's sonic nirvana.

There's heaps of good info on this forum and many willing helpers; just ask and you shall receive!

 

[Restless Rocks]

There are some good compressors that will make your lead channel have the singing sustain you're looking for.