Advice needed – Mesa amps!

[visualrocker69]

Hey everyone… (my first post!)

This summer, I’m going through a major upgrade of my equipment. I recently made up my mind on getting a MusicMan JP-6 model, preferably the BFR/F-1. Between its D-sonic/air norton pickup configuration, the coil tap, piezos, non-locking but nevertheless reliable tremolo bridge… the Petrucci model is undeniably the most versatile guitar on the market.

But I’m confused as hell on the amp side… Until recently, I was 100% sure I wanted a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier. When I was just starting to play guitar in 8th grade, one of my friends bought one of those with two 2x12” rectifier cabs…I had obsessed over it ever since.

But lately I’m having second thoughts. The Rectifier, by reputation, is like the EMG 81 of guitar amps. In other words, amazing for metal but very limited beyond that. It would be most unfortunate if I was using a guitar that I consider to be the pinnacle of versatility, while playing through a relatively limited amplifier. So, I have plenty of other options.

The problem is, I don’t understand them.

It looks like Mr. Petrucci has four amplifiers: Road King, Lone Star, Mark IIC+ and Mark IV. My question is…how do these compare to each other? What does John Petrucci use each for? What kinds of tones could I get with each?

I know he uses the Lone Star for cleans…and I vaguely remember that the Road King achieves versatility through switching multiple tube combinations…but beyond that I’m completely clueless.

Also, I did a budget projection, and after I buy the MMJP6 and a 2x12 mesa cab, I should have about $4084 remaining to spend on a head (or two). What are the prices (new) for each of these heads? What would be an average used price?

Keep in mind, my favorite albums of his are Images and Words, and Scenes from a Memory. If I remember correctly, he didn’t even use a rectifier on the latter, it was all Mark IIC+ and IV.

Thanks a lot!

 

[mesanomad100]

JP,has currently switched back to his MKIIC+'s for the new album as well as a MKIV,the last couple of tours and albums he has used his RKI and lonstar heads,If its a dual rec sound your after,and then some a RK is your best bet,better still the new RKII's have the same gain structure as the RKI but the clean lower gain channels have the lonstar circuit,basically a really simple petrucci setup in the one box,The MKIIC+ some will argue ARE mesa boogie amps,they really are phenomenal,but at a price,Im pretty sure petrucci used these babies on most albums as they are one of the reasons he is famous(tonal wise),The MKIV,not a bad word to say about them,amazing versitile amp,IMHO these are the most versitile of the Boogies,If its versitillity your after It sone of these,I personally prefer the Dual rec's,but that said Im saving up for a MKIV to A/B between

As far as pricing goes there is a post at the top of the page called pronet pricing 07,this what your lookin for
Ohh JP used Racktifiers alot as well for Scenes from a memory
as wel as Triaxis's and other boogie gear

Euan

 

[TheRazMeister]

Hmmm....I'm not sure I agree with that. I have a Rectoverb and play more of a classic rock/80's hard rock style and have no problems getting a variety of tones. I tried nomads/F series/blue angels/mavericks/lone stars/express series and a DC or 2. None of them gave me the overdrive tone I was looking for and got out of the Rectoverb. The cleans may not be in the same league as some of above but they're certainly nothing to sneeze at.

Hey everyone… (my first post!)

But lately I’m having second thoughts. The Rectifier, by reputation, is like the EMG 81 of guitar amps. In other words, amazing for metal but very limited beyond that. It would be most unfortunate if I was using a guitar that I consider to be the pinnacle of versatility, while playing through a relatively limited amplifier. So, I have plenty of other options.

Thanks a lot!

 

[hal9000]

Hmmm....I'm not sure I agree with that. I have a Rectoverb and play more of a classic rock/80's hard rock style and have no problems getting a variety of tones. I tried nomads/F series/blue angels/mavericks/lone stars/express series and a DC or 2. None of them gave me the overdrive tone I was looking for and got out of the Rectoverb. The cleans may not be in the same league as some of above but they're certainly nothing to sneeze at.

Hey everyone… (my first post!)

But lately I’m having second thoughts. The Rectifier, by reputation, is like the EMG 81 of guitar amps. In other words, amazing for metal but very limited beyond that. It would be most unfortunate if I was using a guitar that I consider to be the pinnacle of versatility, while playing through a relatively limited amplifier. So, I have plenty of other options.

Thanks a lot!

+1, my '93 Tremoverb is a beast of versatility and tone. The clean is quite good, especially with a smattering of the on-board 'verb. Both Orange Vintage and Red Blues can conjure a plethora of clean, overdriven, and heavy tones. Red Modern is the sound that many Rectos were sold for.

The only amp the competes with my T-verb for versatility is my F-100, which has a stunning clean channel. For versatility and JP-type tones, either would be very good. If you really want to hear a master with the F-50, check out Tommi Inkila and his band Scenery Channel: http://www.scenerychannel.com/media.html

 

[visualrocker69]

The MKIV,not a bad word to say about them,amazing versitile amp,IMHO these are the most versitile of the Boogies,If its versitillity your after It sone of these,I personally prefer the Dual rec's,but that said Im saving up for a MKIV to A/B between

Yeah, actually, eventually I want 4 amps and a 4-way switch...
Lead: Mark IIC+
Rhythm: Marshall JCM800
Crunch: Fender Twin Reverb
Clean: Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120

How does that sound?

 

[bluntage]

The MKIV,not a bad word to say about them,amazing versitile amp,IMHO these are the most versitile of the Boogies,If its versitillity your after It sone of these,I personally prefer the Dual rec's,but that said Im saving up for a MKIV to A/B between

Yeah, actually, eventually I want 4 amps and a 4-way switch...
Lead: Mark IIC+
Rhythm: Marshall JCM800
Crunch: Fender Twin Reverb
Clean: Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120

How does that sound?

Heavy. :lol:

 

[Random Hero]

You can hear IIC+s and IVs way more on Scenes from a Memory than you can Racktos...

 

[Elpelotero]

+1


Nobody needs that many amps live, except JP.

Here it is plain and simple:
--Mark2C+: very expensive, used. Great clean tones. The most amazing gain/lead sound of any mesa boogie. Incredibly smooth and creamy. HOwever, you will lose some versatility, mainly because you share the knobs for both channels.

--Mark4: Based on the circuit board of the Mark2C+. Has all of the above, but it loses some of the mojo the C+ was famous for. It is still a very smooth amp though. It is the most versatile amp you can buy next to the Road King2. Great for tight rhythm tracking and solos.

--Dual Rectifier: huge crushing gain and bass. Cleans are average at best. There are many types of rectifiers. read the post "rectifier lineage" for an explanation. Great for heavy rhythms like Korn or Godsmack. Not good for tight riffs. The early models are great for smooth solos.

--Road King 2 Rectifier: the best rectifier in terms of versatility. Has lonestar cleans, lots of mid-gain, and the famous rectifier mayhem on channel 4. Extremely versatile amp. Serial loops. Can pick different tubes, etc.


I personally think you need to choose between the Mark4 and the Road King 2. They will give you JP tones and lots of versatility. It just depends on which sound is more of your style. Take the Mark4 for the older JP work and take the RoadKing 2 for his newer stuff.

 

[Kung-Fool]

--Dual Rectifier: huge crushing gain and bass. Cleans are average at best. There are many types of rectifiers. read the post "rectifier lineage" for an explanation. Great for heavy rhythms like Korn or Godsmack. Not good for tight riffs. The early models are great for smooth solos

Sorry man but I have to disagree with you completely on that. I can get a 2 ch. Recto to sound as tight as a college cheerleaders ***! Tight riffage is exactly what I play.

 

[jbird]

I personally think you need to choose between the Mark4 and the Road King 2. They will give you JP tones and lots of versatility. It just depends on which sound is more of your style. Take the Mark4 for the older JP work and take the RoadKing 2 for his newer stuff.

And there it is! :idea:

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

I personally think you need to choose between the Mark4 and the Road King 2.

On your $4K+ budget, no you dont 8)

A Mark4, a Recto, a good a/b/y box and a couple cabs will do it.

 

[visualrocker69]

I personally think you need to choose between the Mark4 and the Road King 2.

On your $4K+ budget, no you dont 8)

A Mark4, a Recto, a good a/b/y box and a couple cabs will do it.

Yeah but I think I wanna keep several thousand in case i stumble across a Mark IIC+.

Where the hell could I find one?

 

[Anonymous]

Post removed.

 

[Platypus]

I got my recto to sound tight.. but not as tight as the Mark. I think focus is a better word to use, there is much more focus with the mark and the recto seemed a tad loose. It's possible to dial it right but I think it's still a different 'feel'

 

[Elpelotero]

I agree and disagree. A recto can be used to play tight metal riffs...But, Not to be cocky, and this refers to everyone discussing the recto tightness vs. mark4 tightness, but I have THE rectos to have and a Mark2c+. A 2channel can flat out not get as tight as a Mark2c+, at the very least not without some sort of graphic EQ or boost pedal. Even then, just think that after applying pedals and what not to a Mark2C+, it will still be tighter than a Recto.

A lot of the recto's perceived tightness gets lost once you walk out of the room and get into an open space. This is where the recto truly shows its bassy character since the bass notes bloom out.

Both amps have juicy and thick saturation when you engage the power tubes. It's just the way each was voiced...one was 80s. The other 90s. Two different eras of music.

 

[Kung-Fool]

No doubt the 2C+ is tighter...I'm not disputing that. What I am disputing is the notion that a Recto can't do tight riffage or is only good for nu-metal. It's something you hear a lot on the internet yet gets disproved in reality on a daily basis when you look at the huge list of metal bands that use them live and to record.

As far as the open room comment, that could be said for any amp. Personally, what my amp sounds like all by itself 2 rooms away is of little consequence. I always base my opinions on an amp on how it performs in a band environment...either at gigs or practice, and how it records. My band can be best described as a cross between old school thrash and newer bands like Killswitch, Unearth, etc. and Rectos have never let me down in the tightness department. Even my 3ch kept up but it needed a boost in front to do it. My Racktifier doesn't even break a sweat. I look forward to giving #28 it's chance to shine.

 

[Russ]

--Dual Rectifier: huge crushing gain and bass. Cleans are average at best. There are many types of rectifiers. read the post "rectifier lineage" for an explanation. Great for heavy rhythms like Korn or Godsmack. Not good for tight riffs. The early models are great for smooth solos

Sorry man but I have to disagree with you completely on that. I can get a 2 ch. Recto to sound as tight as a college cheerleaders ***! Tight riffage is exactly what I play.

I have to agree with Kung-Fool here. I was getting some pretty tight riffage myself out of my Rev G. There again it could be playing styles and settings too. I still think the Mark IV does it better though. For some reason, every amp I play ends up finding its way to a thrash tone eventually. It is just a matter of what the amp excels at that I usually end up dialing it in for. I must say that though, the Mark IV still solos better too. I can't wait to get my hands on a C.

 

[asattwanger]

The MKIV,not a bad word to say about them,amazing versitile amp,IMHO these are the most versitile of the Boogies,If its versitillity your after It sone of these,I personally prefer the Dual rec's,but that said Im saving up for a MKIV to A/B between

Yeah, actually, eventually I want 4 amps and a 4-way switch...
Lead: Mark IIC+
Rhythm: Marshall JCM800
Crunch: Fender Twin Reverb
Clean: Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120

How does that sound?

Alot of great info has been given to you, but I think your way over thinking this entire thing or full of crap. Please take that as fair review because people who set up four amps don't think about JP, JM, YJM, or anyone else uses. They are after X and it's many years at understanding what X is and why X is needed.

You might be this grande guy, but your asking question that only your ear will tell you. I think, this is something your not at yet. Again please don't become upset. You need to play some of these amp instead of dreaming about the look and names.

Why deal with a Marshall for rythm work? A Boogie can get you that sound and will be more reliable, but understandable if you must own a Marshall.

But what is this? Crunch: Fender Twin Reverb
Clean: Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120.

Are you out of your mind? You really need to play these amps. Because you will quickly see a good Fender Twin Reverb is the clean amp form hell. No reason for the JC-120 at all. Do you even understand the volume your taking about playing at to get any type of break up with a Twin Reverb?

Save your money.

 

[asattwanger]

That might be too harsh, sorry.

In reality you need to think simpler. With the flexablity of Mesa. I don't see any reason why a 1x12 Lonestar and a 1x12 MkIV wouldn't cut it. Maybe sub the MK for what ever you heavey sound needs.

Big big big. Big deal. I watched a death metal band play 5days ago and one guitar player played a Marshall 1/2 stack and the other a 1x12 MkIII combo. The Mesa sounded like god and every bit as loud as the Marshall.

 

[madryan]

Besides, a Recto with EL-34's will do Marshall really well, as long as you don't mind a Marshall that sounds super thick and smooth. I was trying my 2 channel out on a vintage-30 loaded cab at one of the independent music stores in town and the sales guy (really nice guy) commented that my mesa sounded more like a Marshall than a Marshall.

Maybe you should get a Triaxis and a 2:90 and call it good.