Advice needed – Mesa amps!

[visualrocker69]

Thanks for the replies, but I've already decided not to buy ANYTHING until I get a Mark IIC+. Then I'll see where to go from there.

 

[asattwanger]

Glad your useing your head here.

 

[Russ]

Putting a IIC+ as your first Mesa purchase is interesting. You might not like anything else after that or you might have wasted money. You might have to save too long and find your choices dwindling also. It isn't like they are really common. Granted if you bought one you could always unload it and get something else but I would say go play some Mesa's in the meantime and just get a feel for them. You might find that a Mark IV can handle what you want. You might find a RoadKing is your cup of tea. Being that you haven't even played Mesa's you should go do that before dropping $3000 on an amp you don't have a clue as to how it sounds or how the controls work. I didn't say anything about your 4 amp rig thought but being so easily swayed as to make an uninformed change and set a IIC+ as your primary goal blindly never having even played a Mesa is kind of silly. I think you really need to sit down with yourself and decide what it is that you want to do musically and equip yourself for that. You can always change your mind later. Assessing your choices for your 4 amp rig you haven't been playing too long and your lack of knowledge of amps shows. This isn't meant as criticism rather it is more a conveyance of observation to be taken constructively. I think asattwanger had you pegged. I also think that madryan has a good idea with the Triaxis. That would give you more choices than being stuck in one amp sound. It may not be the most organic of tone but at least you have more choices at your fingertips. Your $4000 budget being important you might follow NoGlassNoClass's advice and elpelotero's if you can swing it. At least you will be playing Mesa. Then you could see if the Mark tone is something that you really want or need. If after owoning a Mark IV for a while you decide you really want the changes described on this board then yeah go for it dump it and get a Mark IIC+. As for the Recto or RoadKing, you might decide you want a Rec tone. You might decide you like the having the heaviness of it. The Rec doesn't have to sound like nu-metal. I got mine to sound like early thrash. That is far from nu-metal. There are even some playing rock and jazz with them. Bottomline, go out and play some. Really demo the current amps and determine what it is you like/dislike about them before making any decisions. Also keep an open mind. You might figure out that you don't need as much as you think. It is a shame to buy something not having enough personal knowledge about it. I hope this hasn't hurt your feelings. I am just trying to help you to be reasonable.

 

[visualrocker69]

Yup =) It's just I've read and heard enough about the IIC+ as well as clips from a member of this board and its appearence on DT records. I have the money, so why not? Besides, if it turns out I'm looking for something else, I can always resell it *shrugs*

Assessing your choices for your 4 amp rig you haven't been playing too long and your lack of knowledge of amps shows.

Righto, I haven't been playing nearly long enough to make knowledgable decisions, so thank god for this board I've been playing just over seven years, and only on Marshalls this whole time. I'm currently using a 2x12 valvestate combo. Gotten rather sick of the "Marshall sound", I have.

The reason I put listed those particular amps is that each maker really does have its unique sound. No matter how they might try, no company can nail the completely nail the tones that another is famous for. An example... the Mesa advertized the Mark III's RI as a Fender-ish clean and R2 as a more Marshall-eque sound. But I've read from people on this very board that it falls short.

Anyway, it was just an idea, but rather than sticking to one company like most people end up doing, why not diversify? Just a notion I was toying with... no need to verbally crucify me

 

[trem]

An example... the Mesa advertized the Mark III's RI as a Fender-ish clean and R2 as a more Marshall-eque sound. But I've read from people on this very board that it falls short.

The R2 on the III may be somewhat of a controversy, so I'll leave it at that. The R1 though, is imo on par with most fenders. Actually I've never heard of anyone complaining about the clean on a III.

~trem

 

[visualrocker69]

The R1 though, is imo on par with most fenders. Actually I've never heard of anyone complaining about the clean on a III.

Mmmm. Maybe not so much complaining as, well... hold on, you yourself said this

Mark III has a so-so reverb and shared controls. Mark IV has a better clean channel...

From what I understand, Fender reverb is good?

 

[Russ]

Yup =) It's just I've read and heard enough about the IIC+ as well as clips from a member of this board and its appearence on DT records. I have the money, so why not? Besides, if it turns out I'm looking for something else, I can always resell it *shrugs*

I can see some merit in this and for what it is worth go for it if you have $ you can tie up in experimentation.

Assessing your choices for your 4 amp rig you haven't been playing too long and your lack of knowledge of amps shows.

Righto, I haven't been playing nearly long enough to make knowledgable decisions, so thank god for this board I've been playing just over seven years, and only on Marshalls this whole time. I'm currently using a 2x12 valvestate combo. Gotten rather sick of the "Marshall sound", I have.

Having played Marshalls since the 80's, I can tell you that you never fully experienced what Marshall has to offer until youhave played one of their real tube amps. The Valvestate you have is far from the real Marshall sound.

The reason I put listed those particular amps is that each maker really does have its unique sound. No matter how they might try, no company can nail the completely nail the tones that another is famous for. An example... the Mesa advertized the Mark III's RI as a Fender-ish clean and R2 as a more Marshall-eque sound. But I've read from people on this very board that it falls short.

The way I see it is if you want an approximation then you can have it with Mesa. If you want the real thing go get it.

Anyway, it was just an idea, but rather than sticking to one company like most people end up doing, why not diversify? Just a notion I was toying with... no need to verbally crucify me

Back at you... :lol:

As I said in the reply I gave you, I was not meaning to hurt any feelings. I was merely offering some guidance and a voice of reason. I played enough Marshall to know what I need (JMP MV). I am still figuring out how much Mesa I need. So far I have a Mark IV and a 2ch Dual Rec. I prefer the 2 ch over the 3 ch but I am still working out the Rev# I want to stick with. I have played a Mark III and a Mark I but I have yet to get my hands on a IIC+ or my guess is that I would own it.

I know we are all on our own individual tone quests here and everyone has their own taste (some I have heard are better than others) but I was just trying to save you some time.

 

[visualrocker69]

Right, well it's only been about a month since I realized a Mark series amp is what I want rather than a Dual Rectifier, so clearly I've got a lotttt to learn.

Obviously a Mark IIC+'s very limited on its own outside of the studio, so I'll need a Mark IV to complement it. Thing is, a IV I get get whenever the hell I feel like it (provided I have the funds). A IIC+ on the other hand, well, that requires a great deal of luck and patience. Might as well wait it out while I still have the $$$ for one, lest I regret making any alternate decision.

 

[Russ]

Right, well it's only been about a month since I realized a Mark series amp is what I want rather than a Dual Rectifier, so clearly I've got a lotttt to learn.

Obviously a Mark IIC+'s very limited on its own outside of the studio, so I'll need a Mark IV to complement it. Thing is, a IV I get get whenever the hell I feel like it (provided I have the funds). A IIC+ on the other hand, well, that requires a great deal of luck and patience. Might as well wait it out while I still have the $$$ for one, lest I regret making any alternate decision.

Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. Sorry if I came off a little on the preacher side of things. If you have the $ yeah go for it while you can. They do have their little hot/cold streaks as far as availability goes. You are right, a IV can be had anytime whereas a IIC+ cannot.

 

[visualrocker69]

Actually I've never heard of anyone complaining about the clean on a III.

LOL look what else I found:

I don't like the "clean" of my MKIII at all...maybe I'm just so used to my Twin Reverb, but the Mesa sounds very bland and flat.

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=1031&highlight=iic

 

[asattwanger]

Some like Les Pauls and others like Leo guitars

Yes, like I said about playing these amps. You play a Twin for a while. You'll want nothing but a twin for your clean sound. Very few if anything will hold your clean intrest after a Twin

Carlos Santana, Yeah that old guy, who has been playing Boogie's sense the beginning. Last I cared to read {few yrs ago} ran four different Boogies and one other amp on tour. Care to guess what that amp was?

Yes sir a Fender Twin Reverb.

 

[kramerxxx]

I'd like to help out here. I have played Mesa product for over 20 years now.

I have had 2 MkIIC+ amps and sold each of them because while giving a great Boogie Lead tone, they were not the best at other sounds you'd expect to hear from a versatile Rock amp. I think the Mystique of this amp is highly overrated. Great amp, just not the only great amp. I found myself running the amp with a good clean sound then setting the lead preamp all the way up to get a good rhythm tone and using a pedal to push it to where the amp would sing. If this amp were Truly Magical, Mesa would have figured a way to reissue them to capitalize on the Hype. They are good amps but NOT that much better than a Mark III or a Mark IV.

I agree with one of the posts above, if you use a pedal or a graphic EQ you can get most any of the Mesa amps to have that singing lead quality, YMMV.

I have a Dual Rec that I've used a modified TS9, SD-1 and MXR 10 band EQ on with great results. I also like it with EL34 style power tubes in it too. Speaker and Cab choice makes a big difference in what the sound of the amp comes out as.

John Petrucci likes using a pedal in front of his amps, check out the Budakon DVD extras. He has a DS-1, probably modified and I believe a TS9 clone in his rack drawer. Most good lead players have different amps for different sounds in the studio but then compromise some of that for their live show to not carry the 'Hard to Replace' amps on the road, like a MkIIC+.

It is way too easy to worry about which amp you are playing and forget that the 'magic' ingredient in this mix is your 'playing' not the amp. Equipment will only get you so far in the 'Tonal Equation', the rest needs to come from your talent.

I like tube amps over solid state style amps but the latest round of modeling combos is getting very good. Less maintenance, less weight, more affordable, you do the math.

I've owned about every model Mesa has put out, with a few exceptions and up until the last few years have always found a reason to sell the one I have to get the one I thought I needed to get the sound I thought I wanted to sound like. Bottom line with most amps I still sound like me, whether good or bad, that's the truth.

Instead of spending so much time reading boards and searching for the ultimate tone in an amp, try to accomplish the ultimate playing technique. When you are close to satisfied take your money to the local music store and buy the amp the MOST compliments the style you have developed, be it Mesa, Marshall, Cornford, Splawn, Peavey, Engl, Bogner, Madison, Vox, Radio Shack, Burger King or whatever...

Hope that helps.

 

[Zoner]

Right, well it's only been about a month since I realized a Mark series amp is what I want rather than a Dual Rectifier, so clearly I've got a lotttt to learn.

Obviously a Mark IIC+'s very limited on its own outside of the studio, so I'll need a Mark IV to complement it. Thing is, a IV I get get whenever the hell I feel like it (provided I have the funds). A IIC+ on the other hand, well, that requires a great deal of luck and patience. Might as well wait it out while I still have the $$$ for one, lest I regret making any alternate decision.

How many Marks have you played in the last month, then? Time to break out that fat wad of cash and do like most of us have to arrive at our tonal satisfaction apex - start buying and trying. Don't believe most of what you hear on ANY forum about "what sux and what rocks", you simply need to travel that path with your own ears. And please don't offhandedly toss off a comment like "Obviously a MarkIIC+ is very limited on its own outside the studio". BS! Using a Radial loopbone and a couple pedals and my volume knob I can get many AMAZING tones out of my IIC+(but that is just ME -see how that works?) and think most people outside the serious professional realm know lugging 3 or 4 amps around isn't worth the time, expense, or wear on the body. How did you "learn" you didn't want the DR? Put it through its paces and didn't like it or let someone convince you you wanted the Mark more? You might HATE the MkIIC+. You might hate the MkIV. You might find happiness in the modeling world or with that Burger King setup (too fat sounding for me, but good sizzle, kinda cheezy in the build department). I'm not trying to slam you, just give you some advice about how to arrive at true happiness - you gotta actually get your mitts on this stuff and see for yourself. Just buy right so you can turn the stuff you don't like over without losing to much $$$. Good luck! Z

 

[visualrocker69]

Mhm, I really gotta get down to the buying and trying things out.

About the DR, though, one of my friends has one so I'm pretty familiar with the sound. Before I thought that was for me, but now that I've been listening to the Mark tone on recordings and stuff I think I want to buy something from that series. Just a matter of preference, thats all. We'll see how I like it =)