A/B/Y pedal help for Running two C+'s or a C+ and a MKIII

[Shep]

Just remember about ground loop's!!

 

[Octavarius]

Framptone has a couple:

http://www.frampton.com/switcher.html
http://www.frampton.com/3banger.html

Tonebone also has a couple:

http://tonebone.com/tb-switchbone.htm
http://tonebone.com/re-bigshot-aby.htm

 

[Platypus]

I use a deluxe memory man pedal to run my two C+'s together.. it's not the best tone wise but it works and sounds pretty ridiculous

 

[LEVEL4]

I just bought a Whirlwind A/B/Y switch. I either pair up my DC-3 and my Mark IV, or my DC-3 and my Single-Recto with it. Either combination is pure tone heaven. I get the deep, rich mids from the DC-3, and the crisp highs from either the Mark IV or the Recto. Not nearly as fancy as those listed above, but here's the ones I looked at:

1. The Whirlwind ($99) uses optically-operated switches, which enable dead-silent switching. The Morley is half the price at only $49, but makes pops when switching.
2. I did run into ground-loop hum, however. So, I went to Target and picked up some ground-lifters ($1.29 a pair), and plugged them into ends of the amps' power cords, and voila! [EDIT: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME! IT'S DANGEROUS!]
3. The Voodoo A/B/C/D switch ($229), and can switch up to four amps, and has built-in ground lifts for each amp—very convenient!

It seems like any two Mesa amps, 'Y'-ed together, sounds awesome. I doubt anyone who's ever tried it, can ever go back to a single-amp, set-up after playing with an A/B/Y switch, and virtually any two Mesa amps for a while.

 

[camsna]

I can recommend the Framptone for sure!

The Lehle is great, too. I've used both. They work equally well but the Framptone is helpful with ground loops. The Lehle has an internal ground lift - but if you're running different effects with each amp, it's almost impossible to get rid of the ground-loop hum. The Framptone has an external ground-lift and sounds GREAT! Keeley did a wonderful job with it!

ALSO! These are both passive splitters. So you really ought to put the A/B/Y AFTER a buffer. This will preserve your signal level to each amp. Splitting an un-buffered signal sounds like dookie.

 

[Octavarius]

I just bought a Whirlwind A/B/Y switch. I either pair up my DC-3 and my Mark IV, or my DC-3 and my Single-Recto with it. Either combination is pure tone heaven. I get the deep, rich mids from the DC-3, and the crisp highs from either the Mark IV or the Recto.

1. The Whirlwind is expensive ($99) because it uses optically-operated switches, which enable dead-silent switching. The Morley is half the price at only $49, but makes pops when switching.
2. I did run into ground-loop hum, however. So, I went to Target and picked up some ground-lifters ($1.29 a pair), and plugged them into ends of the amps' power cords, and voila! No noise!
3. The Voodoo A/B/C/D switch is very nice (a bit pricey at $229), but can switch up to four amps, and has built-in ground lifts for each amp—VERY convenient!

It seems like any two Mesa amps, 'Y'-ed together, sounds awesome. I doubt anyone who's ever tried it, can ever go back to a single-amp, set-up after playing with an A/B/Y switch, and virtually any two Mesa amps for a while.

It's much safer to lift the ground from the audio cable, as in the shielding. It's not safe, however to remove the ground from the amps' power source! If anything shorts inside, you can be electrocuted just by touching the chassis. Plus, the amp/speaker will pop very loudly each time you flick the light switch, for instance. It's really not recommended to lift the ground on that type of audio equipment.

However, if you lift the ground on one of the audio cables going from the switcher to the amps, you should be good. (I'm not very familliar on how you do this exactly, though)

 

[Octavarius]

I can recommend the Framptone for sure!

The Lehle is great, too. I've used both. They work equally well but the Framptone is helpful with ground loops. The Lehle has an internal ground lift - but if you're running different effects with each amp, it's almost impossible to get rid of the ground-loop hum. The Framptone has an external ground-lift and sounds GREAT! Keeley did a wonderful job with it!

ALSO! These are both passive splitters. So you really ought to put the A/B/Y AFTER a buffer. This will preserve your signal level to each amp. Splitting an un-buffered signal sounds like dookie.

The Framptone has a buffer circuit built in now, I think. At least that's what it says on the site:

- Ground loop exclusion - highest quality transformer is used, electronically isolating the ground
- Custom buffer circuit designed to convert the instrument input to a low impedance signal, allowing the instrument signal to be fed to many amplifiers simultaneously without signal loss or degredation
- Soft touch momentary switches for click-less, noise free switching
- Phase reversal switch to eliminate any out of phase amp situation
- 'Last Amp On' feature - flashing LED's allow you to know which amp will be activated when you stop using both amps combined

 

[LEVEL4]

It's much safer to lift the ground from the audio cable, as in the shielding. It's not safe, however to remove the ground from the amps' power source! If anything shorts inside, you can be electrocuted just by touching the chassis.

Yeah, I was kinda wondering about that. Anyone know how to do this?

 

[camsna]

I can recommend the Framptone for sure!

The Lehle is great, too. I've used both. They work equally well but the Framptone is helpful with ground loops. The Lehle has an internal ground lift - but if you're running different effects with each amp, it's almost impossible to get rid of the ground-loop hum. The Framptone has an external ground-lift and sounds GREAT! Keeley did a wonderful job with it!

ALSO! These are both passive splitters. So you really ought to put the A/B/Y AFTER a buffer. This will preserve your signal level to each amp. Splitting an un-buffered signal sounds like dookie.

The Framptone has a buffer circuit built in now, I think. At least that's what it says on the site:

- Ground loop exclusion - highest quality transformer is used, electronically isolating the ground
- Custom buffer circuit designed to convert the instrument input to a low impedance signal, allowing the instrument signal to be fed to many amplifiers simultaneously without signal loss or degredation
- Soft touch momentary switches for click-less, noise free switching
- Phase reversal switch to eliminate any out of phase amp situation
- 'Last Amp On' feature - flashing LED's allow you to know which amp will be activated when you stop using both amps combined

I stand corrected! The Lehle is passive - the Framptone is not. So - get a buffer (like the Axess BS2) if you go Lehle. And don't sweat it if you go Framptone.

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[LEVEL4]

Don't quite understand what the buffer is for? Would I need something like this from Axess if I chose to go with the Lehle, and why?

http://www.axess-electronics.com/sc/BS2-Guitar-Audio-Buffer-Splitter-p-16133.html

I was considering one of the three Lehle A/B/C switchers (not sure which one I need), but do I still need a separate buffer to operate them correctly?

Is the red $369 "Dual SGoS" Lehle (linked, below) with its built-in "Lehle LTHZ transformer" the one I would want to have one guitar drive three amps? But read the description carefully, and it appears that its isolation transformer is only isolating the 'A' and 'B' outputs, and not the 'T' output. So, maybe, my only choice for a hum-eliminating A/B/C switcher is the Framptone "3-Banger?"

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=67256

I'm assuming I need the more-expensive, red "Dual SGoS," since it mentions the built-in isolation transformer specifically, which I assume, the blue $319 Lehle "1at3" switcher (below) doesn't have.

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=67253

Also, is there anything "wrong" with the Voodoo A/B/C/D switcher? Is it "missing" something like a buffer or something? It must also have an isolation transformer, since it has built-in ground lifters for all four outputs, right?

Thanks!

 

[camsna]

Okay. Lemme try to answer what I know.

1) Buffers.

A buffer is basically an in-line amplifier that operates at unity gain. It makes your signal much much stronger - but not any louder. Also it converts your guitar signal from Hi-impedance to Lo-impedance. These functions allow your guitar signal to be split and sent down long cable runs without degrading.

If you didn't buffer your guitar signal before splitting it, your split signal will be very weak. You shouldn't really notice a difference if you're using A OR B (since the whole signal is being routed to A or B). But you WILL hear a difference whey you run A AND B (or more) together. In this case the (weak) signal is being split in half (or 1/3ds or 1/4ths). This affects every link in the tone chain. Weak signal is now more prone to degradation by long cable runs, less signal is going into (therefore out of) each of your effects, making that signal even weaker and more prone to degradation, etc.... Ultimately, when the signal reaches the amp, a bunch of the volume, and a MUCH BIGGER BUNCH of the beautiful subtleties that make your guitar sound like a guitar and your tone so harmonically rich - are gone. Sounds like poo. Highs are gone. Bottom is flubby. Yecch!

2) Voodoo Lab Amp Selector - Great product! Josh Fiden is the man! He KNOWS his stuff and really cares about what guitarists want! It has a really great sounding buffer. It's all you'd need - tuner out, level controls, ground lifts, different operating modes. But just might be more than you need if you're only driving 2 amps. BUT! Every Voodoo product I've ever purchased has surpassed my expectations. Their customer service is great. Prices can't be beat. Can't say enough good stuff about Voodoo Lab.

 

[Don]

Don't use ground-lift adapters. They're dangerous as heck and you will eventually get electrocuted because of them.

 

[LEVEL4]

Okay. Lemme try to answer what I know . . . a buffer is basically an in-line amplifier that operates at unity gain. It makes your signal much much stronger - but not any louder. Also it converts your guitar signal from Hi-impedance to Lo-impedance.

Excellent! Thank you for that detailed and informative explanation! I'm splitting one guitar into two amps using the Whirlwind. Didn't really notice any loss of anything. But, based on your advice, I think I'll be going with the Voodoo switcher since I actually do have four amps and four cabs. Thanks again!

Don't use ground-lift adapters. They're dangerous as heck and you will eventually get electrocuted because of them.

Gotcha. Yeah, I suspected that wasn't a good idea somehow.