''.50 caliber/mark 3 shoot out''

[bartchamdoh]

I have an 87 .50 studio caliber long head and an 86 mark 3 purple stripe short head (both non graphic eq ) and thought it would be fun to a/b the pair as they were available at roughly the same time.....i rated them thus>cleans .50 caliber> 6.5/mark 3> 9,crunch(.50 caliber lead channel set at vol 1)the same >9!,lead .50 caliber >7/mark 3 >9 over all the mark 3 had better cleans plus a better lead channel with the ability to kick in the rhytmn 2 channel for a boost.The .50 caliber had its best tones in the mid gain range and i would quite happily use either amp for blues/rock tones!!!I have seen Mark 3,s sell for four times the price of a .50 caliber it doesn,t sound four times better imo, a budget mark series type boogie amp that excells at blues and rock.

 

[mrd]

Cool idea, but I'm sorry, that was exceedingly hard to read!

 

[bartchamdoh]

Ok i,ll keep it simple!for cleans and heavy lead the mark 3 is where it,s at,the cleans were rounder and fatter sounding,whilst the lead on the 3 was more open sounding and detailed with the ability to kick the rhytmn 2 in to thicken/boost the sound.In the mid gain stakes both amps nailed really convincing good tones.For what it,s worth the mark 3 build quality is better as well!Both amps nail a mark series vibe and the .50 Caliber is still way better than a lot of the competion around today.....how was that da da lol.

 

[scottcrud]

I've owned and sold 3 MKIII's and have owned my .50Cal+ since 1991, I'll take my .50Cal+ anyday over a MKIII for metal.

 

[bartchamdoh]

I,m sure we,ve had this discusion before lol and if you prefer the sound of the .50+ caliber then that,s the right choice for you.I,m not saying it,s a bad amp(on the contrary i have one!)however tone is subjective and a matter of preference.What is not subjective is that the mark 3 is capable of more gain,plus has the ability to kick in the rhytmn 2 channel to boost/thicken the tone!(of course both amps have foot switchable eq if they were loaded with this option which can do similar stuff.)I found the lead channel of the mark 3 to be more open and detailed and the .50 caliber to be darker and less detailed with less gain on tap(however i have the non eq version!)even on my non eq mark 3 i can shred with a strat something the .50 caliber just cant do!I,m quite surpised you,ve had 3 mark 3,s and liked the .50+ better,as although bands do use this amp for heavy stuff (most noticably Coc)most metal/heavy rock bands tend to opt for the mark2c+/3/4/5 ie Metalica,Dream theater,Lamb of god and OMG John Sykes tone on that Whitesnake album(gulp) anyways i like most of the early boogies so keep rocking dude cos there all good amps!

 

[scottcrud]

Is yours the EL84 or 6L6 version? Mine was the 6L6 version with GEQ and none of the MKIII's had more gain than my .50cal+. Is the .50Cal darker? Yes. Hell I even had a MKIII+ which was sent to Boogie for the C+ specs and it didn't have more gain than my .50Cal. Click on either of my myspace links and you'll hear what a .50Cal is capable of. The Force Fed Texas myspace is all .50Cal+, the JunkerTexas is half .50Cal and half MKIII.
Maybe my amp is just an oddball and has more gain.

 

[lockbody]

Cool idea, but I'm sorry, that was exceedingly hard to read!

+1'000'000

 

[bartchamdoh]

Hi Scottcrud,gave your band a listen and for the kinda stuff you play your tone is definately happening!What guitar/pickups are you using it sounds like high output emg,s or seymour duncans.I myself play in a hard rock band (Hikari Rising) and typically play fenders.The lead channel on my.50 cal doesn,t cut it for the stuff i play,with the guitars i play and i use an overdrive/distortion pedal up front when using that amp!With the mark 3....no pedal needed!!!I have the el84 loaded .50cal and it,s funny because i remember Mike b being quoted that he thought that had more bite and grit on the lead channel than the 6l6 version....anyhoo look forward to your reply lol.

 

[omm]

Been reading this board for some time.

I've seen this kind of confusion coming up a lot of times (about the amount of gain in the 50.cal series).

The facts are:
The .50 cals are two very different amps:

The .50 caliber, with less gain and ELs.

and

The .50 caliber+ with shitloads of gain and 6l6s.

The power tubes isn't the only difference, although the construction is very similar. I think the main difference (maybe only difference) in the preamp is the resistor going to ground after 1a+b having different value (it's 150k in the + and a 475 in the non+) (I believe this is the same resistor you replace with a pot for the "lead drive" mod on these amps). 1a+b is basically the lead channel in these amps.

With that in mind, it's pretty obvious why one user with a .50 cal thinks it has less gain than a mkIII, while a user with a .50 cal+ thinks it has more than enough gain. They're both right.



-OMM

 

[bartchamdoh]

That may be the case as i have never tried the + 6l6 version however as i did mention Mike B seemed to think the el-84 version had more bite and as he built these amps(and inspected them) i would have thought he would be in the know but as i,ve said you may be right as i,ve never tried the other version.

 

[fishyfishfish]

The 6L6 .50's have enough gain to kill somebody.

 

[scottcrud]

bartchamdoh,

I had EMG 81's loaded in a Robin Raider ( made in Houston)for the Force Fed recordings. For the P.N.D. stuff I'm using WCR Iron Mans, (in the same Robin Raider) and the other guitarist is using the stock pickups in a Les Paul deluxe and Duncans in his SG. He uses a MKIII, I use the .50Cal+, and with the gain dimed on both amps on the lead channel, the gain is approximately the same. No need for a boost or distortion pedal from either amp. In fact the other guitarist has used MKIII's since 1989 and loves my .50Cal+ lead channel as much as his MKIII's.

 

[bartchamdoh]

Well whadiya know i guessed right first time!!!In all honesty my.50cal can get that tone with high output buckers but i use stock fender strat,s and tele,s and i shoot for a Gary Moore/Joe Bonamassa kinda tone(yup i,m a lead guitar/w**n**r) as i said the .50 cal doesn,t have enough gain and sustain for my playing(but i love the tone )i,ve ponderd the previous guys response and i don,t think your amp will have more gain or vice /versa(it,s basically the same amp with different tubes!)At the end of the day it,s all about if your rig as a whole works,if i use a fender into an overdrive pedal into the amp and you plug straight into the amp with a guitar with high output buckers..DOES IT REALLY MATTER!!! as long as you get the tone....am i right?

 

[scottcrud]

But here's where your theory falls short, I've got a guitar with Gibson 57 classics and my tone is still super high gain even with lower output paf type humbuckers. Me personally, I wouldn'y own a .50Cal without the 5 band eq... but that's just me.

 

[bartchamdoh]

The five band eq is neither here or there i,ve got several boogies(well six) half with and half without and there all good!What i personally look for in an amp is a good high gain amp with a good clean channel!!!I like an amp that does clean and mean on it,s own but sounds good with a few pedals when you want to do that little extra(in other words you can enhance what the amp already does!)The only tonal advantage to the five band eq is for metal type stuff(which i don,t play!!!)Although of course it does make the amp more versatile(as a boost/cut for lead,different lead tone etc.Amps without the five band eq are easier to set up,need less maintenance(the eq,s are prone to problems ,missing sliders etc) and can be made to sound the same as the eq versions!IMO many people overly rely on the five band eq to get there tone and as many threads here and many mesa manuals testify to all r&d is done so that the eq is an additional tone shaper and not a must have one.....did i read in the mark 5 manual that the non eq mark 2c+ was meant to have a better tone....anyways...peace and keep rockin over crimbo.

 

[bartchamdoh]

May i just add the difference is really between single coil guitars and humbucking ones the .50 cal just doesn,t have enough oomph with single coils i like to max the gain out and let my volume control on my geetar do the rest(unless i,m playing clean stuff) the studio cals are great amps and go dirt cheap on e bay(strangely enough the 50 watters go cheaper than the 22 watters...strange but true).

 

[scottcrud]

And I've never been able to get a good rhythm tone from my lead channel with the 5 band eq off. It sounds like a Marshall JMP or 800 albeit with a lot more gain. And I've read the mesa manual over and over, I've got it memorized. Hell I've tried for 18 years to make it sound good without the G.EQ. The Clean sounds great without the G.EQ...



I think at some point I'll probably get another .50Cal+ head and send it over to Monstatone to mod it like my current .50 cal.

 

[bartchamdoh]

What are your settings?

 

[scottcrud]

vol-3-4
mast.-10
lead mast.-10
treb-7
bass-3
mid-5
rev-0
pres-3

I'll give you an example of my lead and clean tones...Lead sounds like Master of Puppets(Metallica), Clean sounds like Back in Black (AC/DC)... Don't really use clean at all, and my clean isn't clean...

 

[bartchamdoh]

How come your volume is set so low with the amount of gain you are using and can i ask what mods does your amp have?