4th Mesa Try: Mesa Mark I Combo w/Reverb (Did I do OK?)

[DC3 Gridlock]

I've been wanting another small 1x12 vintage Boogie for sometime.

I spotted what appears to be an original Mesa Boogie Mark I Combo with Reverb, 60w/100w, white tolex, 1x12, loop, and Tweed setting.

Made an offer of $750 and it was accepted.

I won't pick it up for another week but during my brief time testing it with a Strat, everything seemed to work fine. This amp has the black label maker markings on the back panel.

I am assuming that this is a late 70's or 80's model amp? I will attempt to upload a few pictures. Not sure that I have been successful in uploading pictures on this forum in the past.

This will be my 4th Mesa, 1st was a Studio 22+ (loved), 2nd DC3 (Ok but..), 3rd Express 5:50 (liked but I had other amps that did the same thing), and now this amp.

I paid $750 for this amp.

Is this an original Mark I or a reissue?

Is $750 U.S. dollars a good price for this amp which is in an 8.5-9 condition out of a scale of 10?

The amp seemed to get loud really fast with the master volume above 2 and gain cranked to ten.

I appreciate your expert help with this. I can still back out of the deal if it is not a good one.

Thanks,
Grid

 

[RR]

I'm looking at your collection of amps and this Mark I should fit in. Uh, a "tweed" setting maybe clue its a Reissue.

You do understand the 3-volume "juggle". Some don't realize that the "clean" or rhythm channel volume effects the gain of the "distortion" or lead channel, cascading gain.

I don't know about the Reissue Mark I but the original Mark I the stack tone is similar to Fenders with a midrange punch.

Anything after Mark II (if you asks me) went for more gain and I think stack tone are different. They're un-Fender if you asks me.

Good luck.

 

[DC3 Gridlock]

I'm looking at your collection of amps and this Mark I should fit in. Uh, a "tweed" setting maybe clue its a Reissue.

You do understand the 3-volume "juggle". Some don't realize that the "clean" or rhythm channel volume effects the gain of the "distortion" or lead channel, cascading gain.

I don't know about the Reissue Mark I but the original Mark I the stack tone is similar to Fenders with a midrange punch.

Anything after Mark II (if you asks me) went for more gain and I think stack tone are different. They're un-Fender if you asks me.

Good luck.

Thanks, do you think that this is a fair price for this amp?
This amp uses 6L6's (i think) which I like and the amps gain sounded pretty good at lower volumes which is where I play most of the time.

Thanks for your quick response.

Grid

 

[RR]

I don't know the going price of Mark I. I know if the original Mark I came with Sylvania 6L6s, Holy Grail of 6L6s (MESA STR415s) and if use any other 6L6 you to get optimum performance you have to have the Mark I rebias for those tubes (non-Sylvania).

Don't you find the Mark I quite loud? It has one the most headroom cleans tube amp I ever played. I like the mild gain on the lead channel.

I'm really fond of your amp collection, Marshalll Super Lead 1987X, the JCM800, then BF Vibrolux and the rest of the Fender Silver Faces. I think you need an Vox ACxx and Hiwatt DR and you have complete set of vintage amps - lol.

 

[DC3 Gridlock]

Single Rec,

You may be right, this amp may be too loud for my current needs. Kind of an impulse buy after selling some equipment.

The new Santana King Snake amp demo sounded great and I figured that this amp may be close.

I've got a week to decide if I want to go through with the deal (put $100 down). I really want another small Mesa amp but this one may be more watts than I need.

It did sound decent at lower volumes (2).

Again, I appreciate your help.

Thanks

 

[chipaudette]

Anything after Mark II (if you asks me) went for more gain and I think stack tone are different. They're un-Fender if you asks me.

I have a Mark IIC(+) and a 65 Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue. The cleans do feel quite a bit different, so I totally agree with you there. But, on the narrow issue of the circuit that implements the tone stack (the Treb, Bass, and Mid knobs), it turns out that the Boogie and the Fender are built exactly the same. All of the pots, resistors, and capacitors are the same values.

The tone stack comes pretty early in the amplifier's circuit and the Boogie is clearly based on the classic Fender blackface pre-amp circuit. In this early part of the pre-amp circuit, the only differences between the Fender and the Boogie are:

(1) The cathode bypass cap used in this early part of the circuit is smaller on the Boogie than on the Fender. The smaller value makes the Boogie have less deep bass, which is good for lead tones. Interestingly, the "Pull Shift" on the Boogie bass knob brings a larger cap back into the circuit, thereby making the circuit the same as the Fender.

(2) The "bright" cap (which schematically extremely close to the tone stack) is a different value in the Boogie than on the Fender. If you don't enable the "bright" on either amp, the two amps are the same. If you do enable the "bright", the effect depends upon your Vol1 setting. On the Boogie, most folks run Vol1 between 6-8, while on a Fender most people run it 2-5. Boogie changed the bright cap in an attempt to account for this difference in how people were using Vol1. But, to my ear, with these settings, the effect of the Fender's "bright" is still a bit higher in frequency and it is a bit stronger (especially if the Fender is set at 2-3). Making this comparison difficult is that the Boogie also has a presence knob, which heavily affects these high frequencies. So, it can be hard to directly compare the Boogie to the Fender just with regards to the Bright switch.

(3) The voltage supplied to the plates of the tubes in the early part of the circuit is much higher in the Boogie (350-400V) compared to the Fender (260ish?). How this affects the sound is up for interpretation.

Later in the circuit, there are tons of differences between the Fender and the Boogie:

* Different reverb circuits and reverb tanks
* The Boogie has an effects loop, including some tone shaping elements
* Different power amp circuits (though the Twin Reverb and the Boogie 60/100W are only a little different)
* The Boogie has a presence circuit whereas most (all?) blackface Fender's don't
* Different speakers

I completely support the observation that the Fender and Boogie cleans are different (both in sound and in feel)...but my point here is merely to describe how it's not actually the tone stack that is primary cause of the difference...it's the multitude of other changes.

Chip

 

[RR]

Thanks Chip.

I"m not sure if I mislead you but maybe I should have state (in my opinion) Mark I, II are more like Fenders while there after MESA were getting away from "Fender" they were based on.

But did you ever played anything after Mark IIs? Say a Mark III?

I have a Mark IIB bought in '81. 6 months later, out came the Mark III. I had that mentality wanting the "latest and greatest" MESA and they were now selling at certain stores. Just when I was about to trade in my Mark IIB I tried this new Mark III and it was way over the top for me.

Too much gain, couldn't juggle the lead, clean, rhythm distortion to my liking. The tone controls seemed to be different settings too. I kept my Mark IIB maybe because I came from a Fender background and Mark III was getting away from "Fender'[?]. I don't know.

No knock on the Mark III, I just thought the amplifier market was going toward "more gain" (Soldano SLOs, modified Marshalls etc ...) so this was MESA answers, Mark IIIs to its competitors.

Down the road, my buddy buys a Mark III. He was happy with it. But when I brought my Mark II for a jam, 6 months later, he sells his Mark III.

I asked: "Why did you sell your Mark III?"
His answer: ""Cause it didn't sound like yours. Even when I lower the preamp gain, it couldn't get that sound you're getting."

No knock on Mark III or there after. I'm just a Fender guy (well as vintage Marshalls, Vox, reissue is fine too). The demand for more gain is for these newer models.


Back to the original question DC3 Gridlock asked, is this a good score? Mark I for $750?

 

[Zlofengir]

I'd say $750 is a great deal for a Mk 1, reissue or otherwise. Yes, they are LOUD amps; even on 60 watts, these bad boys can leave your ears ringing. But, you can get great tones out of them at low volumes with some knob twiddling. Most people don't think about clean tones when it comes to Boogies, everyone wants that Mk III C+ / Rectifier kinda grindage; Mk I and II's have an absolutely stellar clean channel that even sounds better than many Fender amps.

Enjoy your new rig!! Take the time and experiment with it; it's worth the time, because the sound is truly legendary.

Happy tone hunting!

 

[DC3 Gridlock]

Thanks guys. I'll be picking the amp up this week and then time to experiment.
Grid.

 

[treedroppings]

The Reissue is a Great amp. You can jumper the effects loop to acquire another gain stage. I built a closed-back 2-12 cab and it worked great. I love the edge of breakup sound on mine and it kills with a tube screamer. I have a strat with paf and a firebird with low output zhangbuckers. I can turn up the bass pass two on mine since it was preamp modded to sound a little more British (2 caps and 2 resistors).

Ordinary boogie tubes are fine on this!