4 cable method with your boogie....

[Newysurfer]

For anyone who owns & is struggling to undertand the Boss GT-8 (and that's everyone) you should immediately subscribe to www.BossGTcentral.com and click on "forum" . It's a great board with lots of very helpful musos that will answer all your questions. The Board has a ton of info of every GT-8, amp, pedal, tone & guitar issue you can think of. There's patches, connection methods and a much better user manual than that supplied by Boss - all free.

If you're thinking about buying a GT-8 this where you should go for info before you buy

And after you buy - you'll never understand it unless you use this forum. The GT-8 is great but is very complex and is not user friendly.

 

[antwadoe]

Hi guys, i'm new to this forum but thought i could help with the original question.

I have been running a boss gt-5 using the 4 cable method into a mesa express 5:50. For ages i ran the gt-5 through the fx loop in the amp because i love the tone of the amp and was happy sacrificing the distortion/overdrive section of the gt to get such wicked tone. This was done using the two cable method for ages until i discovered the 4 cable method at which point i won't go back and do it any other way! I now am able to use both channels on the express and use any effect (including the overdrive) i want on the gt-5 and it sounds magic!

When i first tried it out, i got huge hiss, tone from the amp got really lost and i wasn't happy... being a tweaker, i thought to myself that if i muck around long enough i will nut it out.

So, i found after looking through the level meters built into the gt-5, that the return volume was really low compared to the rest. Given the express has no volume setting for the fx loop, i turned the amp up, turned down the output volume of the gt-5 and it solved everything!!! Hiss gone, tone back! It's connected like this;

1. guitar into gt-5
2. gt-5 mono output into express fx return
3. gt-5 send into amp input
4. gt-5 return into amp send


I must also mention that where you set the fx loop on the gt-5 is of paramount importance. If you want to use the overdriven sounds from a multi-fx unit using 4 cable method, the loop must be set after the overdrive sounds in the fx chain.

Hope this helps someone.

 

[mr_fender]

Balanced cables are essential, no doubt about it...! It does not matter if your device is balanced or not, it has everything to do the cable length and protecting it from outside interference.

There seems to be a big misconception about what balanced cables really do. Without balanced inputs and outputs, a balanced cabled does little to nothing. A true balanced cable setup uses stereo style TRS plugs, two conductor, shielded wire, and differential amplifier inputs and outputs where the two different conductors in the cable carry identical signals, except they are 180 degrees out of phase. When the two copies of the signal are recombined with a differential amplifier, the noise gets cancelled out much like in a humbucking pickup. It works just like XLR microphone cables. Having devices with balanced inputs and outputs has everything to do with it. Using balanced cables with mono (non-balanced) devices is basically a waste of money. When a balanced cable is plugged into a regular mono jack, the ring contact is either simply shorted to the ground sleeve or is connected to nothing at all, depending on the jack design. You MUST have balanced equipment to make any real use of balanced cables.

 

[Geiri]

Mesa mk4 boss gt 8 4cm and everyone is happy.

The boss gt 8 is a very underrated product. Probably because it's not an instant gratification gismo like line6. If you're willing to work with it and give it time it will become your favorite secret weapon in your arsenal.

Nuff said.

 

[Laskyman]

I currently use a GT10, spent a great deal of time with the GT8- the 4CM is a great way to use a Boogie, BUT, you need a serial loop, and you need to spend time adjusting level (with the GT10, it is easier to achieve excellent results than the GT8). The 8 is great, but for effects only (which I do) the 10 is superior.
No other floor based unit can do what the GT series can- the flexibility is PEERLESS- Not even the G-System is capable of the routing possibilities the GT series can accomplish. The effects are not as good as some of the analog/stomp counterparts, but analog drives work well with th GT series as well. I have used the 4CM with both Roadster and Stiletto- bulletproof.

 

[mr_fender]

I've tried both the Boss GT-10 and the Line6 Pod X3 Live (thank God for the 30 day return policy at GC) with the 4 cable method and I didn't have much luck. It was a mixed bag. I liked the amp and distortion models better in the X3, but I like the effects models better in the GT-10. I didn't like either enough to replace my current pedalboard. If I could combine aspects of the two, I think I would have liked them more. Stuff in the loop worked well and sounded pretty good, but having digital modeled stuff in front of the amp seemed to kill its mojo. There was a night and day difference between having a real tubescreamer and a digital model of a tubescreamer in front of my amp. The digital stuff in front of the amp just sounded flat and lifeless to me. My hope was to replace all of my pedals with one of these and the 4CM. Neither cut it for me. Out of the two, the X3 seemed better for direct recording, while the GT-10 was better with an amp. The GT-10 was constructed WAY better too. GT-8 was built quite well too. I don't know why Line6 made the X3 all plastic crap while the XT Live was pretty solid. I've had my eye on Line 6's new M13 though. It looks pretty darn cool. I may give it a spin.

 

[tiktok]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Lexicon MPX-G2, which the first processor designed for the four-cable method.

 

[Bruceta]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Lexicon MPX-G2, which the first processor designed for the four-cable method.

I've had a MPX-G2 and its footcontroller MPX-R1. Excellent effects, excellent Analog Drive, but unfortunately very painful to program. One needs to be a MPX engineer/PhD to handle the thing.

 

[bduersch]

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Lexicon MPX-G2, which the first processor designed for the four-cable method.

The G2 is genius and top notch, though admittedly hard to program. Every time I assemble a rack, it's my go-to box since it handles 4CM better than anything else. I tried the Digitech GSP1101 (which is also designed for 4CM and is, in many respects, a direct descendant of the G2 since Lexicon and Digitech are owned by the same parent company)... it was easier to program than the G2, but also sucked a bit more tone in the process.

--B

 

[cscotto]

I am using the Line 6 M13 with my Nomad 100 2X12 using the four cable method. The four cable method produced a ground loop hum. I fixed the ground loop with an Ebtech hum eliminator. It works fine, and it eliminates the loop. All the delays, modulation effects, reverbs, etc., are very good in the M13. I have to carry just one pedal. Let me know if there is anything else you want to know. By the way, I do not think I have ever had a Mesa amp that did not produce a ground loop using the four cable method.

 

[fr0sty]

I hooked up my m13 via 4cm into my new Mark V and made this brief clip using the looper. It was recorded via the slave out and speaker impulses inside FL Studio.

It may sound kind of phased. Since I recorded both tracks with the looper it was mono. I added some stereo shaping in FL Studio to give it a little space.

http://webpages.charter.net/gregdomeier/realms.mp3

 

[zappazapper]

I use the four cable method with my .50 Caliber + and my Line6 POD X3 Live.

When I first tried it out, I got an enormous amount of added hiss coming from the .50 cal's preamp. After a bit of research I found out that the FX Send on the POD is line level, not instrument level. I figure that I would need a reamp box (converts mic or line level signals to instrument level), but when I went to the store to buy one, I was advised by one of the salesmen to try a "impedance matching transformer", sort of a poor mans reamp box. It's basically an XLR female connector on one side, a 1/4" TS plug on the other, with a transformer in the middle, with a switch to reverse directions. For some reason it seems to work better in the reverse direction for this purpose: Using an XLR to 1/4" TRS converter (couldn't find an XLR to TS), I plug that into the front panel input on the .50 cal, and the other side to the FX Send of the POD. After many attempts to find some sort of difference (negative or otherwise) in the tone or level between the 4 cable method and just plugging my guitar straight into the input, I simply cannot. I even used a Waves plugin for Cubase called Q-Capture to measure the frequency response and there is absolutely no difference.

GUITAR > 1/4" cable > POD Guitar Input
POD FX Send > 1/4" end of Impedance Matching Transformer > XLR end of Impedance Matching Transformer > XLR to 1/4" TRS converter > .50 Cal Guitar Input
.50 Cal FX Send > 1/4" cable > POD FX Return
POD 1/4" Output > 1/4" cable > .50 cal FX Return

Set CONFIG in the LOOP block in the POD to PRE (before the AMP+CAB block). This puts the preamp of the .50 cal in the right position in the signal chain - after the GATE, VOL (if CONFIG is set to PRE in that block), WAH and STOMP blocks, but before everything else. The only problem is that you can't put the MOD, DLY, or VERB blocks before the LOOP block like you can with the AMP+CAB block. If your heart is that set on having one of these effects before your distortion, I'm sure you can find a close approximation of the tone your looking for in the AMP+CAB block.

Don't forget to experiment with the NO AMP model in the AMP+CAB block and try out some different cabinet models with your amp's preamp (make sure you have your 1/4" OUTPUT MODE set to COMBO PWRAMP, so that the mic models are bypassed and the cabinet models are revoiced to sound accurate coming from your amps open-back cab, otherwise if you choose a 4x12 Marshall cab, it won't sound like a 4x12 Marshall cab, it will sound like the sound of a 4x12 Marshall going through whatever mic model you've chosen, going through your open-back 1x12").

I like using the 4 cable method for two reasons:

1. I am a big fan of the versatility and tonal possibilities that technology offers to musicians.

I love being able to instantly switch amps sounds with the click of one button (and although I know that it's debatable just how accurate amp models are, I feel from the audiences perspective, even 80% accurate is good enough for most people). I love the fact that I can use my X3L as a vocal processor as well. I love the routing capabilities (it's nice to be able to route acoustic guitar or synth sounds directly to the PA instead of through my guitar amp). I love all the neat effects at my disposal. I love being able to really taylor a sound for each song - especially useful in a top-40 cover band situation.

2. I am a big fan of the simplicity of just plugging a guitar into an amp.

Lately I've been playing bass in a country/rock/blues band, and the guitar player has been using the same amp (rivera-designed 1983 Fender Concert) for over 20 years, with absolutely no effects (he doesn't even use the footswitch to select channels). I am amazed at what he can do with just the amp and the volume and tone controls on his tele. For quite a while I was ditching the POD in favor of "getting to know" my guitar and amp. It was rather refreshing to be able to concentrate on my playing and singing instead of worrying so much about how close my tone is to the original recording or how perfect the tone is for a song. I've just got back into using the POD again, and I find myself using the .50 cal preamp in most of my patches, and as a result I end up with far less patches than I would normally have. Also, using the 4 cable method has, strangely enough, allowed me to be LESS dependant on using the POD - if, for whatever reason (laziness usually), I decide not to bring the POD to a gig, I know that I'm going to get the same tone that I've been using on almost all of my patches anyway.

I highly recommend the 4 cable method to anybody that is curious about the possibilities that modern musical technology offers, but is afraid of the effect that it will have on the "real tube amp tone" you are used to, and who doesn't want the technology to take over. Yes, there is a little more setup involved, but as long as you take the time to figure out how things need to be connected, and how the levels should be set, you should be able to get the exact same tone you've always had, plus have all the other tonal possibilites that the technology offers.

 

[Blaklynx]

I use the four cable method with my .50 Caliber + and my Line6 POD X3 Live.

When I first tried it out, I got an enormous amount of added hiss coming from the .50 cal's preamp. After a bit of research I found out that the FX Send on the POD is line level, not instrument level. I figure that I would need a reamp box (converts mic or line level signals to instrument level), but when I went to the store to buy one, I was advised by one of the salesmen to try a "impedance matching transformer", sort of a poor mans reamp box. It's basically an XLR female connector on one side, a 1/4" TS plug on the other, with a transformer in the middle, with a switch to reverse directions. For some reason it seems to work better in the reverse direction for this purpose: Using an XLR to 1/4" TRS converter (couldn't find an XLR to TS), I plug that into the front panel input on the .50 cal, and the other side to the FX Send of the POD. After many attempts to find some sort of difference (negative or otherwise) in the tone or level between the 4 cable method and just plugging my guitar straight into the input, I simply cannot. I even used a Waves plugin for Cubase called Q-Capture to measure the frequency response and there is absolutely no difference.

GUITAR > 1/4" cable > POD Guitar Input
POD FX Send > 1/4" end of Impedance Matching Transformer > XLR end of Impedance Matching Transformer > XLR to 1/4" TRS converter > .50 Cal Guitar Input
.50 Cal FX Send > 1/4" cable > POD FX Return
POD 1/4" Output > 1/4" cable > .50 cal FX Return

Set CONFIG in the LOOP block in the POD to PRE (before the AMP+CAB block). This puts the preamp of the .50 cal in the right position in the signal chain - after the GATE, VOL (if CONFIG is set to PRE in that block), WAH and STOMP blocks, but before everything else. The only problem is that you can't put the MOD, DLY, or VERB blocks before the LOOP block like you can with the AMP+CAB block. If your heart is that set on having one of these effects before your distortion, I'm sure you can find a close approximation of the tone your looking for in the AMP+CAB block.

Don't forget to experiment with the NO AMP model in the AMP+CAB block and try out some different cabinet models with your amp's preamp (make sure you have your 1/4" OUTPUT MODE set to COMBO PWRAMP, so that the mic models are bypassed and the cabinet models are revoiced to sound accurate coming from your amps open-back cab, otherwise if you choose a 4x12 Marshall cab, it won't sound like a 4x12 Marshall cab, it will sound like the sound of a 4x12 Marshall going through whatever mic model you've chosen, going through your open-back 1x12").

I like using the 4 cable method for two reasons:

1. I am a big fan of the versatility and tonal possibilities that technology offers to musicians.

I love being able to instantly switch amps sounds with the click of one button (and although I know that it's debatable just how accurate amp models are, I feel from the audiences perspective, even 80% accurate is good enough for most people). I love the fact that I can use my X3L as a vocal processor as well. I love the routing capabilities (it's nice to be able to route acoustic guitar or synth sounds directly to the PA instead of through my guitar amp). I love all the neat effects at my disposal. I love being able to really taylor a sound for each song - especially useful in a top-40 cover band situation.

2. I am a big fan of the simplicity of just plugging a guitar into an amp.

Lately I've been playing bass in a country/rock/blues band, and the guitar player has been using the same amp (rivera-designed 1983 Fender Concert) for over 20 years, with absolutely no effects (he doesn't even use the footswitch to select channels). I am amazed at what he can do with just the amp and the volume and tone controls on his tele. For quite a while I was ditching the POD in favor of "getting to know" my guitar and amp. It was rather refreshing to be able to concentrate on my playing and singing instead of worrying so much about how close my tone is to the original recording or how perfect the tone is for a song. I've just got back into using the POD again, and I find myself using the .50 cal preamp in most of my patches, and as a result I end up with far less patches than I would normally have. Also, using the 4 cable method has, strangely enough, allowed me to be LESS dependant on using the POD - if, for whatever reason (laziness usually), I decide not to bring the POD to a gig, I know that I'm going to get the same tone that I've been using on almost all of my patches anyway.

I highly recommend the 4 cable method to anybody that is curious about the possibilities that modern musical technology offers, but is afraid of the effect that it will have on the "real tube amp tone" you are used to, and who doesn't want the technology to take over. Yes, there is a little more setup involved, but as long as you take the time to figure out how things need to be connected, and how the levels should be set, you should be able to get the exact same tone you've always had, plus have all the other tonal possibilites that the technology offers.

A well thought post. Yes, technology is there to be used and help you - whether creatively or to find your mojo. Also, as you said, sometimes simplicity and getting to learn your guitar and amp - getting back to basics - is refreshing.

Sometimes I plug guitar straight into amp - no pedals. My ears have a great time.

 

[primal]

talk about digging up an old thread.

I started reading this thinking to myself I could have sworn jdurso owned an Axe Fx. Then I noticed this thread was started in 2007.

FWIW I use the 4 cm from time to time with my Axe FX and Electra Dyne. Once I got rid of the ground loop problem with the Ebtech walwart and one of those "impedence matching transformers (little imp)" I liked it.

Before that it was way to noisy to be practical.

 

[mxr2000]

Bump.. The effects loop on a Caliber .50+ amp is difficult to use is there a mod for the effect loop of this amp to make it more user friendly like "series" mod so can finally use it with a Mxr 10 band eq without getting weird high Pitch sounds. ?