2 channel Rev F vs 3 channel

[YellowJacket]

I ran into my friend who I hadn't seen in ages at a music store out in hickville Manitoba. We decided we should get together and jam and it turns out he now has a Dual Rectifier just as I do. I recall at a show years ago, he used mine and commented "I could get used to this!" Not surprisingly, he now has one. He was curious about the differences between the two since people talk a lot about it on the internet. I hadn't ever noticed so I decided we should do a test. We used the same power tubes, the same cab, and the same guitar, a Jackson with a Seymour Duncan Dimebag Darryl (RIP) pickup in the neck.

The general impression was that they did sound very similar to one another but mine (the Rev F) had a creamier and more organic tone with less pronounced or 'fizzy' highs. It also had a more emphasized bass response as well. The 3 channel sounded more brittle, especially on channel three which has the different taper on the presence pot. We discovered that very similar tones could be dialed in with different settings i.e. turning the bass down and the presence up on my head but it still had that creamier and more organic tone. Although the preamp tubes might be somewhat responsible for the difference, this is really splitting hairs. I've retubed my amp recently so it no longer has the originals and the differences in tone between the two amps are basically the same as what were described on the Boogie Archives webpage (RIP =-p )

As for the clean, he commented that he should "copy my clean settings because they sound great." Whatever that means. It might be the amp but I thought the clean tone was further improved for the 3 channel heads. Next time we get together, we are going to try his Recto 2 x 12 against my Thiele 2 x 12 and he wants to try EL-34s in his head. He said he stayed away from the EL-34s because the manual said they make the amp sound more "Marshally" and he wants it to sound like a Mesa. I mentioned that they really enhance the tone of the Dual and a lot of guys here love them. I, for one, never want to go back to 6L6s, at least not for guitar. I use them in my head for when I'm using it with my Ashdown 210 and Fender P-Bass as a bass practice amp. Works fine for that!

 

[screamingdaisy]

I agree.

I think the 3 channel gets unfairly judged by a lot of people. People act like it's the biggest piece of **** known to man when the differences (although audiable) aren't neccissarily that huge.

I remember when the 3 channel first came out a lot of people prefered it because it was a touch brighter and thus cut better in a live band situation, whist others prefered the slightly darker/smoother sound of the older 2-channel version.

The long and short is that end of the day, both amps sound like Dual Rectifiers.


On a side note, where is hickville?

 

[Elpelotero]

The boogiearchives will one day live again...Do not fret (pun intended).

I don't know when that day will be, but hopefully soon, as there have been many questions about these amps recently.

 

[YellowJacket]

'Hickville' is Steinbach, MB, or any number of the small prairie towns surrounding Winnipeg. But in this case, Steinbach. My wife jokes that it is one big colony!

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'm outside Brandon. Was curious as I don't see much (any) Boogie gear out this way. I know it's around, but I never seem to run into it.

 

[twothemax]

hi from saskatchewan.
i am a proud 3 ch dr owner. i tried both the two and the 3 channel versions. the 3 ch can do and sound just as good as the 2 ch if things are dialed in rite. 3 ch is a hell of alot more versatile
now alot of peeps may say i am full of it, but they still make the 3 channel!!!!!

 

[fluff191]

I am also a proud 3 Channel Recto owner. Got rid of my Rev. E instead of my 3 Channel in fact.

And The Boogie Archives needs to be back ASAP!!! Do we need to start a donation fund? I will throw down some $$!!

 

[YellowJacket]

Exactly. I would personally love one of the reborn duals with the improved clean channel. I've also longed many times for a solo boost and a lead channel as well as a rhythm channel. I find the lower levels of gain necessary for a 3D and wicked crunch don't provide the saturation, cut, and sustain for wicked solos. It irritates me greatly. Hey, if the new Duals are too fizzy on Channel 3, one can always do the presence pot mod.
Oh well, my Dual will do. I just got myself a P-Bass so I've been acquiring a rig for that. My amp sounds great and that is more than can be said for most guitarists.

 

[screamingdaisy]

That's why I'd love a Roadster.

I usually set up my Dual for two dirt channels... rhythm and lead. Which usually has me wishing it had a clean channel.

That said, sometimes I set it up for a clean and rhythm channel, which usually has me wishing it had a second clean channel (for pushed cleans) and a solo mode (to boost the rhythm channels volume for solos).

I also love the tube rectifier on lead guitar, but I can't stand the tube rectifier on rhythm. Roadster has me covered there too...

Long story short, the Roadster seems to have everything I wish my 2 channel had...

 

[fluff191]

Long story short, the Roadster seems to have everything I wish my 2 channel had...

I always thought the 2 Channels were like a Monster Truck: Hell yes it's fun to drive and to run over things with, but
you can't exactly pick the kids up from daycare in it. No versatility compared to a 3 Channel.

 

[Soma]

That's why I'd love a Roadster.

I usually set up my Dual for two dirt channels... rhythm and lead. Which usually has me wishing it had a clean channel.

That said, sometimes I set it up for a clean and rhythm channel, which usually has me wishing it had a second clean channel (for pushed cleans) and a solo mode (to boost the rhythm channels volume for solos).

I also love the tube rectifier on lead guitar, but I can't stand the tube rectifier on rhythm. Roadster has me covered there too...

Long story short, the Roadster seems to have everything I wish my 2 channel had...

+1

In a nutshell, versatility. I guess I could get the pushed cleans and buttery solos from a boost and/or overdrive, but I just don't want to go down the tap dancing route.

Cheers

 

[mikey383]

Long story short, the Roadster seems to have everything I wish my 2 channel had...

I always thought the 2 Channels were like a Monster Truck: Hell yes it's fun to drive and to run over things with, but
you can't exactly pick the kids up from daycare in it. No versatility compared to a 3 Channel.

There's a really simple (but pricey) solution for that: Buy an effects processor (like a Digitech GSP2101) that has an effects loop, do the serial loop mod, and wire it in via the 4 cable method - where your guitar goes to the input of the processor, the effects send of the unit goes to the input of the amp, the FX send of the amp goes to the FX return of the unit, and the output of the unit goes to the FX return of the amp.

Buy a Behringer FCB1010 to control it too.

Clean, dirty, and a plethora of distortion settings because you have the EQ on the processor to adjust.

I had mine set up so that I just used the processor into the Recto's power amp for cleans, used the orange channel on modern mode for rhythm, and the red modern for lead. Worked great.

It's all in how you set it up. It's complicated, but cheaper than buying a new amp.

 

[YellowJacket]

I think I'd like to buy an ElectraDyne and run an AB box ^___^

Then I'd get my clean tone I wanted with a couple of extras like a sweet lead channel and there would be punishment only one press of a button away!! Alternatively, a Roadster would be epic. The more I hear about these little numbers, the more the GAS builds!

 

[NAVSPECWARCOM 5326]

I have a 2008 3 channel dual and a 93 revision F 2 channel dual. I agree with fluff the 3 channel is more versatile. For me I strictly play hardcore/metal and for that style my 2 channel blows it out of the water. Has way more balls and that tight rip your face of distortion that my 3 channel can't achieve. The two channel is setup with the high gain option from eurotubes. This includes all JJ tubes, 3 high gain preamp tubes, one stock and balanced for the phase inverter up front and 2 kt88's on the outside and two kt66's in the middle. But even in stock form it slays. I ended up trying the voodoo mod for my 3 channel with the circuit mods and mercury magnetic transformers but that just seemed to neuter the amp and make it sound like one of there custom amps. All in all I think it boils down to versatility, how much you want a nicer clean channel and what kind of music you play.

 

[YellowJacket]

My friend was over again today and we were comparing guitars / cabs / tubes today. I tried the orange channel on my Dual as a lead channel and all my complaints about a lack of a good lead tone simply vanished into thin air. With my Bare Knuckle pickups, the Les Paul is much sweeter with way more balls. It sounds absolutely HUGE.
Alternatively, my buddy's Jackson is far better of a guitar for metal / shredding but I guess the tool is made for the task.

Cabs: We AB'd my Thiele with the Mesa 2 x 12 rectocab. My general impression was that the thiele doesn't thump quite as much but it sounds much tighter and is less midrange heavy. The Recto 2 x 12 by comparison is more mid heavy, with less bass but more thump. It sounds more compressed or 'boxy' but still great nonetheless. My friend loved my thiele but he would much rather a duet of v30s instead of my combination I like. The creamy greenback makes things too 'loose' for his tastes. I don't notice it, but I'm more of a rock guitarist. The thiele 2 x 12 has a more even frequency response which takes it closer to 4 x 12 territory even though it obviously isn't one. The clean is also more open and warmer and the overall tone is much less dark than the Mesa. My friend's take on the thiele cab is that I should have made 2 1 x 12s for ease of transport and versatility. He was suitably impressed with the sound of running a solitary v30 in a thiele since it really sounds as big if not bigger than a closeback 2 x 12. (My cab is wired to run either speaker or both at the same time) At any rate, both are great cabs and it really comes down to personal preference.

Tubes: We both like the EL-34s better. It just has that 'something you know is missing'. The midrange bark and added detail of the EL-34 just makes the distortion tone that much more intense and musical. He walked away with some of my EL-34 tubes I don't use anymore and I think he's pretty pumped. The 6L6s do yield a better clean tone with his 3 channel Dual, but my 2 channel sound great with either for clean. The clean is better on the 2 channel, at least to my ears. His assessment is that the el34s don't make the Dual sound like a Marshall. He had never tried them because it says something to this effect in the manual and he absolutely loathes marshalls. I like them but to each his own.

Channel Cloning: For the first time ever, I experimented with variable high gain tones on the orange channel. I set my phat crunch on the red channel and then attempted to dial in a lead tone on the orange channel. Immediately, that elastic singing tone materialized and I found that sound I wanted from the amp for leads. To work on this further, I'll have to try some presets for good lead sounds and experiment but after playing the amp today, I am convinced I want to keep the bugger. The only problem is that when I get a lead and a rhythm sound, I need another amp of some sort for clean. Hmm, I've always fancied a Vox ac30 ^___^

Guitars: Given what I know about guitars, it was still downright shocking the difference an axe makes in tone. Swapping from a Les Paul to a Jackson completely changes the sound and response of an amp, even when the settings are exactly the same. i.e. My rock settings sounded much more metal with the Jackson and the metal settings sounded much more rock with the Les Paul. While boosting may take an amp into more face-melting territory, it is better to get the most appropriate guitar for the desired sound. In the end, this avoids long term gas and cash bleed while trying to find 'that sound'.

Thoughts: When we were able to turn the volume up to the sweet spot, the differences between the amps magnified somewhat but the biggest difference was the feel while playing. Generally speaking, the guitar and the cabinet were much bigger determiners of tone than whatever iteration of Dual we happened to be playing. In fact, the cabinetry is a surprisingly large component of tone, even moreso than the pickups or tubes. So get a good one! The guitar is everything else. Man, I was surprised! For an amp that people say makes all guitars sound the same, we definitely found this was not the case. So ya, spend money on the axe that has the tone you want, and you can probably make any number of amps work well with it.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Have you tried hillbilly channel switchin'?

(ie, set your Les Paul for cleans on the neck and dirt on the bridge)

 

[YellowJacket]

Hmm, that might work. I'm going to be modding my electronics in my Les Paul which will cause the guitar to retain tone even when the volume is rolled off. I generally run a similar EQ setting on my clean and gain channels but just adjust the gain itself so I'm sure I could get used to working the knobs a bit more! I'll have to try that! I guess the real trick is getting used to manipulating the volume and tone pots quickly and accurately on the fly. I think that the Les Paul neck pickup is great for lead playing so I'd definitely want to use it for dirt at times too but generally, this sounds like a decent solution.

 

[screamingdaisy]

It actually works pretty good, provided you don't have a problem with 'clean enough'. I usually set up my amps a touch hot so that the rhythm tone comes when the guitar is somewhere around 7 or 8 on the guitar's volume knob.

Rocking your knobs may feel a bit hap hazard at first, but once you get used to it finding the right spots becomes second nature. That, and you'll have such an increase over your sound that you won't want to go back to the old way of doing it.

 

[YellowJacket]

^___^ Yes, it dawned on me this is what the knobs are for. They aren't just for killing volume during rehearsals and cosmetics to make a guitar look pretty. Once I get my wiring all modded, I'm going to give this a go. I like the idea of having independent volume knobs which will really make having a pickup switch moot. As far as clean is concerned, with a proper mod the volume pots should work well enough that it is easy to back off the gain when necessary. As well as volume and tone controls, there is also the dimension of pick attack. The dynamic nature of a tube amp is such that attack strength also influences tone and response which is sweet. The only real problem with this is if you play metal and want the squeaky cleans and uber phat gains.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I can do Metallica covers (clean to mean) on a single channel high gain head with the pickup selector. It's not that hard to pull off, just takes a bit to get used to.