2 channel Rev F vs 3 channel

[Areola]

I've found my Road King sounds better with the lead on Orange than Red

 

[screamingdaisy]

Orange vs Red channel shootout with hillbilly switchin'

General observations.

Orange channel is definitely more fluid / elastic / warmer than the Red Channel. Overall I like it best. This really IS a lead channel.
Red channel feels brittle for leads but this is what makes it tight and crisp. Red channel on modern mode is great for rhythm. After all, this IS a rhythm channel.

Hmm... I'll have to try your experiment.

I usually run vintage on both channel 1 and 2 or clean 1/vintage 2, but I generally prefer channel 2 for everything. On mine channel 2 is tighter, but it has bit of a midrange peak to it as well. I find that channel 1 generally sounds kind of muddy in comparison.

Maybe the gain makes a difference? I usually run mine at a little less than 6, which I find by playing power chords while raising the gain and listening for the last gain stage to saturate (goes from regular crunch chording to having that Rectifier upper harmonic sound). That way I can switch from regular crunch chording and Rectifier high gain by moving between 7 and 10 on my guitar's volume knob. Since this is also enough gain for me to play lead with I don't really get any benefit from running channel 1 at a higher gain level since it just makes my leads sounds buzzy. I can also get my clean tone by switching from bridge to neck pickup (or dialling down the bridge volume), which is handy since I don't have to worry about being near my footswitch to make it happen.

The end result is that I usually use channel 1 for an driven clean with a slight volume reduction. I run channel 2 for clean to lead on my guitar, but I use the channel switch to give me big dynamic volume shifts (think Nirvana).

 

[screamingdaisy]

I tried plugging my Recto into the MC-90 that's in my LSS today.

Rememer how I said the lead tone on the Recto kinda sucked? I guess it's the V30s 'cause through the MC-90 it sounded great. I always found the Recto's leads were kind of thin sounding. The MC-90 thickened it right up and rolled off some of the top end. It's actually very nice sounding now. Channel 1 also displayed all of the characteristics YellowJacket liked (elasticy) without the feeling of mud that I was getting from it before (although I still don't like channel 1 for rhythm playing).

The MC-90s also improved channel two modern. It was always way too scooped before. It thickened up a lot with these speakers and had a lot more midrange to it. I think it's because V30s emphasis the high midrange whereas Modern has a low midrange focus so the V30 thins out Modern's strong point.

That said, the MC-90 kind of killed channel 2 Vintage. It sounds alright but feels like crap. Totally lacks the punch that it had before. Not sure how much of this has to do with it being an open back combo vs a closed back 4x12... but the punch just wasn't there.

The MC-90 also does a lot to smooth out the high gain buzz. I've never been a fan of Rectifiers at low volume, but this speaker's thicker sound improves it a fair bit. I'd need to reload a 4x12 with MC-90s to do a completely fair comparison... however I think that the fact that a 1x12 open back combo sounds thicker than a 4x12 loaded with V30s is a bit of a statement.

 

[YellowJacket]

Ha, so it isn't just me! When I tried playing leads on the orange channel I didn't want to go back. I just wish I had access to all the modes via footswitch because there are so many good tones in a 2 channel recto. I always thought the MC-90s were very dark sounding speakers and I never really have given them a fair chance. I LIKE the tone of a v30 combined with a greenback so I'm tempted to stick with that. You were talking about combining speakers so you could try 2 v30s and 2 mc-90s in an X pattern in a 4 x 12. That could be interesting.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The MC-90 is a pretty dark speaker. Good for a bright amp like the Mark V, but for the Recto I think it maybe takes off a bit too much edge. A speaker that was good at producing both low mids and high mids would probably do better, but maybe that's too much to ask from one speaker?

It makes me think that maybe Mesa was onto something when they designed the Road King's cab.

I've wanted to reload my 4x12s for awhile, I just wasn't 100% certain which direction I wanted to go. I was going to load one with greenbacks and the other with V30s, but now I'm thinking about MC-90s and V30s. That said, I have a 1x12 widebody open back/1x12 ported mini-stack of doom on order so I'll wait until that comes in and do some more experimenting.

 

[YellowJacket]

I think Mesa got a lot right with the Road King II in general. Think about it, you get the cab and you have an mc90 openback 2 x 12 for cleans and leads as well as a v30 closeback for crunch rhythm tones. That rig really was designed for people like me who want to custom design every possible little option for a myriad of fine tuned and specific tones. I can only imagine what I would all run if I was in a professional touring act. The rig and control interface would be embarassingly huge, I'm sure. I'd probably have 2 Electra Dynes, one for clean and one for vintage high gain. I'd then run two 2 channel Duals, one optimized for rhythm and the other for leads. =-o FUN FUN FUN!

I find Randall Smith's choice in speakers / cabinetry to sound pretty dark in general. Both the MC-90 and the v30 are tight, articulate, and dark sounding speakers, the mc-90 being moreso that way. I find the v30s tend to sound buzzy, ice picky, and generally constipated at low volumes; they only begin to roar when a sufficient amount of horsepower is going through them. I tried an Electra Dyne 1 x 12 combo with the MC-90 in it and it definitely sounds different from a v30 loaded 4 x 12. I mean the amp sounds awesome but it is a very dark sound in conjunction with that speaker and I think I'd prefer my 2 x 12 with the v30 / greenback combination, even if I could only use the head at 45watts that way. If I was to run a 'dyne as a halfstack, I'd probably use a greenback loaded marshall cab with that while running the head with EL-34s. Either that or the v30 / greenback combo I like so much. My problem with the greenbacks on their own is the farty low end and the inability to handle higher gain saturation. With an amp like the 'dyne that has less gain on tap, a little more grindy speaker is a good thing.

I think I prefer a speaker combination in a single cab because it adds a certain 3D thickness to the sound that wouldn't be present otherwise. You also get the advantage of blending the pleasing characteristics of both speakers while masking the more unpleasant quirks at the same time. A v30 / c90 combination would hopefully retain enough brightness while mitigating some of the buzzy quality of the v30 on its own. It would also hopefully give a phat lead tone. Do you use Mesa 4 x 12s? When we tried my buddy's 2 x 12 next to my homemade one, it was amazing how much larger / warmer mine sounded. It makes for a wicked huge crunch tone and it definitely doesn't do leads too badly.

My brother owns a Lonestar special and he complained about a very muddy gain tone, especially at low volumes. Last summer it was out with the MC-90 and in with a G12H Heritage which he says gives a much warmer and vintage tone. He also replaced the v1 preamp tube and that also helped out a lot. I think he's happy with it now!

Gear on order? I'm guessing you either have more credit or are in a much better living situation that I am (married student). The good news is that I am very pleased with what I have so I won't be swapping parts anytime soon. We do live fairly close so if you are game, we could organize a gear shootout for the purpose of testing. You'd get to hear the greenback / v30 combo for free. Hmm, what axes do you have?

 

[screamingdaisy]

Do you use Mesa 4 x 12s? When we tried my buddy's 2 x 12 next to my homemade one, it was amazing how much larger / warmer mine sounded. It makes for a wicked huge crunch tone and it definitely doesn't do leads too badly.

I had a Recto 4x12 for a number of years. It was one of the slant baffle straight cabs that they don't make any more. I liked it alot, and I didn't find it icepicked. My only complaint about it was that it added the 'Recto sag' to any amp I plugged into it.

I replaced it with an Orange 4x12, also loaded with V30s. I find the Orange cabs icepick a little more, but they have more punch and a little less thump. Now even my Rectifier doesn't have 'Recto sag' any more. On a side note, if you take an Orange cab and turn it 90 degrees onto it's side it becomes a Recto Traditional/Stiletto cab.

My brother owns a Lonestar special and he complained about a very muddy gain tone, especially at low volumes. Last summer it was out with the MC-90 and in with a G12H Heritage which he says gives a much warmer and vintage tone. He also replaced the v1 preamp tube and that also helped out a lot. I think he's happy with it now!

The LSS gain can be really touchy. It can have a density to the midrange that sounds really out of balance with the clean channel when switching. I found the problem to be the taper on channel 2's volume knob... it's not identical to channel 1, so it makes balancing the two channels a little un-intuitive, and if you accidentally set the volume of channel 2 a little too low it sounds choked off when you switch.

Gear on order? I'm guessing you either have more credit or are in a much better living situation that I am (married student). The good news is that I am very pleased with what I have so I won't be swapping parts anytime soon. We do live fairly close so if you are game, we could organize a gear shootout for the purpose of testing. You'd get to hear the greenback / v30 combo for free. Hmm, what axes do you have?

Married with 14 years in the military. I don't drink (regularly) and I don't smoke, so I don't have the constant drain on my money that a lot of other people suffer. I'm pleased with my gear, but I play a variety of styles and never found an amp that could do it all. I spent a few years buying and selling amps trying to find 'the one' when I noticed I was going in circles buying similar amps (high gain to low gain, back to high gain, back to low gain). So now I've put together a small collection of amps so that going in circles just means unplugging from one and plugging into another (saves money in the long run).

I'm in the midst of downsizing my rig. I've grown to like the portability of the LSS combo (ie, Its make me lazy), so the idea of a mini-stack of doom is much more appealing than it would've been a few years ago when it was halfstack or nothing.

For axes I have a few Les Pauls (overwound PAFs, P90s, and EMG 85/81) and an SG (PAFs).

 

[YellowJacket]

I had a Recto 4x12 for a number of years. It was one of the slant baffle straight cabs that they don't make any more. I liked it alot, and I didn't find it icepicked. My only complaint about it was that it added the 'Recto sag' to any amp I plugged into it.

I replaced it with an Orange 4x12, also loaded with V30s. I find the Orange cabs icepick a little more, but they have more punch and a little less thump. Now even my Rectifier doesn't have 'Recto sag' any more. On a side note, if you take an Orange cab and turn it 90 degrees onto it's side it becomes a Recto Traditional/Stiletto cab.

Hmm, the recto cab is responsible for about 50% of recto tone. I think a lot of people underestimate the shaping potential of a speaker enclosure and as a result, can potentially swear off of an amp because they don't like the cab. The recto 4 x 12 has this muddy resonant sound I really don't like much. The Marshall 1960ax was farty, the 1960vintage sounded constipated, the traditional / stiletto 4 x 12 was better but also too stiff, the Marshall 1960a sounded scratchy. I have been through so many cabs and hated just about all of them so eventually I just built my own. Much happier now!

The LSS gain can be really touchy. It can have a density to the midrange that sounds really out of balance with the clean channel when switching. I found the problem to be the taper on channel 2's volume knob... it's not identical to channel 1, so it makes balancing the two channels a little un-intuitive, and if you accidentally set the volume of channel 2 a little too low it sounds choked off when you switch.

Hence the Reeder mod. My brother's problem was obviously different since swapping the speaker and a tube fixed it. The Lonestar special is an incredible sounding amp but I never really 'clicked' with it. I'd be interested to try his LSS now though, since I really fancy the more vintage tone of a G12H.

Married with 14 years in the military. I don't drink (regularly) and I don't smoke, so I don't have the constant drain on my money that a lot of other people suffer. I'm pleased with my gear, but I play a variety of styles and never found an amp that could do it all. I spent a few years buying and selling amps trying to find 'the one' when I noticed I was going in circles buying similar amps (high gain to low gain, back to high gain, back to low gain). So now I've put together a small collection of amps so that going in circles just means unplugging from one and plugging into another (saves money in the long run).

I'm in the midst of downsizing my rig. I've grown to like the portability of the LSS combo (ie, Its make me lazy), so the idea of a mini-stack of doom is much more appealing than it would've been a few years ago when it was halfstack or nothing.

For axes I have a few Les Pauls (overwound PAFs, P90s, and EMG 85/81) and an SG (PAFs).

Smoking and drinking are huge money sinks. A gear addiction is much more productive. I hear you about downsizing. 4 x 12s are a pig to move so in my mind, they are the territory of 20 year olds and roadies. My 2 x 12 is still 60lbs which is a pig to move, but I am planning on putting castors on it to make transport much easier. IN hindsight, I simply should have built 2 1 x 12s or better yet, 4 1 x 12s. That would be amazing for grab and go speaker combinations as well as ease of transport. OH well, I've got what I've got and it isn't a 4 x 12. I really wish I knew what I know now because it would have saved me $$$s in the long run! When I complete my bass rig, it will have a 28lb Ashdown 210, a Markbass head of some sort, and my bass. If I need more oomph, I'll either get a 112 or another 210 to go with it. No way in hell I'm transporting a 610 or a fridge!

You are correct about gear. You need the appropriate tools to do the job you are trying to do. I have commented at length about how I am planning on acquiring an Electra Dyne. I think this will cover the awesome clean and low to mid gain settings I like. I mean if I get annoyed, I can always run the ED and the Recto live. If I want to dial in a particular gain tone on the Dyne, I can use the Recto for clean or vice versa. I'll most likely want a head since I am never happy with the stock speakers in combos. I think if I got a 2 x 12 combo one of those V30s would be out of there so fast, probably in favour of a G12H. A G12m would be great but it can't handle a lot of wattage. I'd ideally prefer a 1 x 12 combo but it just sounds so dark and I'm all about warm.

As for axes, I'm happy with my solitary Les Paul. I think I'm going to eventually acquire a strat and then I'll have all my bases covered. I used to have PRS gas but since swapping the PUPs in my Les Paul, it has subsided greatly. The axe just has that phat chainsaw tone I like so much!

 

[screamingdaisy]

Hence the Reeder mod. My brother's problem was obviously different since swapping the speaker and a tube fixed it. The Lonestar special is an incredible sounding amp but I never really 'clicked' with it. I'd be interested to try his LSS now though, since I really fancy the more vintage tone of a G12H.

I run mine with the midrange and presence dimed, bass on zero and treble around 8:00 to 9:00. Gain up around 3:00 on both channels and on channel 2 I add gain use the extra gain knob to taste (usually 9:00 to 12:00), or I'll run the treble up to get a bit brighter edge. I got the idea after watching Fender's '59 Bassman RI clips on youtube. I figured the Lonestar is kind of a blackface Fender... so what the hell. It works really good for rock tones, though I think adding a slightly more edgy amp would compliment the sound.

You are correct about gear. You need the appropriate tools to do the job you are trying to do. I have commented at length about how I am planning on acquiring an Electra Dyne. I think this will cover the awesome clean and low to mid gain settings I like. I mean if I get annoyed, I can always run the ED and the Recto live. If I want to dial in a particular gain tone on the Dyne, I can use the Recto for clean or vice versa. I'll most likely want a head since I am never happy with the stock speakers in combos. I think if I got a 2 x 12 combo one of those V30s would be out of there so fast, probably in favour of a G12H. A G12m would be great but it can't handle a lot of wattage. I'd ideally prefer a 1 x 12 combo but it just sounds so dark and I'm all about warm.

Do you think an ED would serve well as an edgy amp? I only played one once and I like it, but I don't have a real good feel for what it can do.

I plan on getting an extension cab for the LSS and running the Mark V mini-stack side by side in an always on setup, but I'm always on the lookout for other ideas and I think maybe the ED's vintage character might be a better match for the LSS.

As for axes, I'm happy with my solitary Les Paul. I think I'm going to eventually acquire a strat and then I'll have all my bases covered. I used to have PRS gas but since swapping the PUPs in my Les Paul, it has subsided greatly. The axe just has that phat chainsaw tone I like so much!

I wanted a Strat until I got the P90 Les Paul. I would also be quite happy with a LP Jr as the single bridge P90 can go from edgy bridge to a warm, almost neck like sound without the boom of a neck pickup.

I wanted a PRS McCarty a few years back but it literally sold the day before I went in to buy it. It was black with a rosewood neck. Great guitar.

I've actually been really unhappy with my hucker Les Paul until the last pickup swap. It was my first Les Paul and I thought I'd been unlucky and chosen a dog. Five pickup swaps later I stuck a pair of slightly overwound PAFs and it's become a rock and roll monster.

 

[YellowJacket]

I run mine with the midrange and presence dimed, bass on zero and treble around 8:00 to 9:00. Gain up around 3:00 on both channels and on channel 2 I add gain use the extra gain knob to taste (usually 9:00 to 12:00), or I'll run the treble up to get a bit brighter edge. I got the idea after watching Fender's '59 Bassman RI clips on youtube. I figured the Lonestar is kind of a blackface Fender... so what the hell. It works really good for rock tones, though I think adding a slightly more edgy amp would compliment the sound.

Do you think an ED would serve well as an edgy amp? I only played one once and I like it, but I don't have a real good feel for what it can do.

The LSS has a very warm brown clean tone and the gain tone is quite dirty or gritty sounding. This amp is purely of fender vintage and it shows, probably why I didn't 'click' with it. The 'dyne has that awesome blackface type clean but the gain modes are both purely vintage marshall in intent. Basically, it sounds like a plexi having the **** boosted out of it, which makes for a warm, creamy and smooth overdrive. I don't know if I'd consider it edgy but it does have a surprising amount of gain on tap. Think a wicked, round, and perfectly balanced crunch tone. It doesn't have the very bright and crisp high end of the Dual with the emphasis on the low mids. It does wicked liquid dripping leads and also has a phat crunch at the same time. The fact it doesn't wuss out on single note runs is a huge selling point for me! The best way to describe my experience was that I plugged in my guitar and instantly heard THAT sound I've wanted out of an amp all these years. Yes, it was THAT good.
The massive nuisance is that the channel controls are 100% shared and while you can control the amount of gain between channels on the back panel and adjust the clean tone to balance the volume between them, it is severely limiting nonetheless. (separate controls, at LEAST for the clean and gain modes would have made this a much better amp in my mind) Best advice I can offer is to try one. For me, an Electra Dyne would serve the same purpose as a LSS or a LSC, basically a lower gain amp for when I don't need hair raising gain on tap.

I plan on getting an extension cab for the LSS and running the Mark V mini-stack side by side in an always on setup, but I'm always on the lookout for other ideas and I think maybe the ED's vintage character might be a better match for the LSS.

Again, you'll have to try it. The Mark series amps have a more similar tone to a LSS than the 'Dyne. For me, I'd run them through an ABY switch live. I'd use the ED for gain with the Dual for clean or vice versa, with the ED exclusively as a clean amp and the Dual for Orange leads and red crunch / rhythm. I'd have so many sounds available that I'd never get bored! Haha, now all I need to do is to make a homebrew openback or halfback cab for clean tones!

I wanted a Strat until I got the P90 Les Paul. I would also be quite happy with a LP Jr as the single bridge P90 can go from edgy bridge to a warm, almost neck like sound without the boom of a neck pickup.

I wanted a PRS McCarty a few years back but it literally sold the day before I went in to buy it. It was black with a rosewood neck. Great guitar.

Les Pauls are great but I gas for Strat tone. I want the maple neck, alder body, and single coil pups. The idea is to have a tool I can use for different applications from my Les Paul. The idea is to get those lighter more open gain tones and the sweet bright and chimey cleans.

I've actually been really unhappy with my hucker Les Paul until the last pickup swap. It was my first Les Paul and I thought I'd been unlucky and chosen a dog. Five pickup swaps later I stuck a pair of slightly overwound PAFs and it's become a rock and roll monster.

Ya, I feared pickup swapping. I read through everything I could find on both the Les Paul forums and the Duncan forums before making a decision. I decided that being an educated buyer would save money in the long run and it really did.

You know, hand scatterwound pickups with unpolished magnets are the way to go. I absolutely love my BareKnuckle Rebel Yells. They easily tread into PRS territory but when I back off the volume knob, it is easy to get those wonderful PAF type tones. Vintage High Gain on the orange channel for my Dual is quickly becoming my favourite channel on that amp. I discovered that with the gain at 12 oclock, I can do great singing rock leads and then back off the volume to pull off blues. Good times! Thanks for the tips on the volume knobs. The BB Pros simply sounded like garbage with the volume rolled off so it was good to be encouraged to experiment with that. My amp has gone from getting two good tones to a wonderful myriad of them. I like it much more these days!!!

 

[screamingdaisy]

Basically, it sounds like a plexi having the sh!t boosted out of it, which makes for a warm, creamy and smooth overdrive. I don't know if I'd consider it edgy but it does have a surprising amount of gain on tap. Think a wicked, round, and perfectly balanced crunch tone. It doesn't have the very bright and crisp high end of the Dual with the emphasis on the low mids. It does wicked liquid dripping leads and also has a phat crunch at the same time. The fact it doesn't wuss out on single note runs is a huge selling point for me! The best way to describe my experience was that I plugged in my guitar and instantly heard THAT sound I've wanted out of an amp all these years. Yes, it was THAT good.

My brief experience with it reminded me a lot of Orange style gain. Kind of big, slightly loose gain instead of the tighter, buzzier gain. It's kind of hard to put into words... so;

Marshall

Orange

 

[YellowJacket]

^10

This post suffers from EPIC WIN! Haha, the best part is 'suitable for wet lumber'. I wonder what that means in terms of guitars, does this mean orange amps are suitable for schecter guitars?

Well, the JCM900 / 2000 marshalls definitely have that buzz saw quality to them. Orange is a more detailed sort of crunch and is also really creamy. I guess the 'Dyne is creamy too but it really has that vintage plexi vibe to it. I thought of Marshall when I heard the gain, not Orange. Either fits though, since the guys at mesa are definitely going for that 'british' tone. Of course, if you like a Marshall buy one. If you like an Orange, buy one. Mesa puts their signature on all their amps. They definitely aren't out to try to copy what other people are doing. **coughbugeracough**