it seems to me that every boogie I have ever owned has needed the bass control to be set off, or very low. I have had MKI, MIV, Recto single ,double,Lonestar, tremoverb, Express, and all need the Bass to be handled with care what is boogie thinking? what is the benefit of adding so much bass to the amp? It seems your always struggling with it, I think that's why they added the EQ and contour pot , to help with that, but why not design the amp with less boogie Flab Bass. They could easily change some of the caps in the amp to get rid of this right? maybe make it swichable, boggie Flab or Boogie lean. Then we wouldn't have to send the amp to trace(nice guy) or buy a smooth and slim pedal or go crazy trying to dial something out that don't want to leave(this reminds me of my MKIV OH the PAIN) I need a boogie on a diet, maybe that would be the stiletto right? still get rid of all the extra flab, please! anyone agree? or hate me for saying it?
Why does boogie like the Flab so much?
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Jak0lantern01
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If that's true about the Mark IV being flabby also (it's the reason why I'm looking away from my recto), perhaps the Stiletto is the answer. I've been meaning to get to the store to try a Stiletto, and that's why I refuse to lay out cash for a Mark since no stores keep them stocked to test.
The MKIV can be really tight on the lead channel, much more then the recto IMHO. I'm just saying that there's so much extra bass in there that you have run your bass so low, somtimes off completely, why? what's the point of that? I would try to play before buying a MKIV. the MKIV can be great but it takes time and sometimes I love it and sometimes I hate it. If I had to buy a MKIV again I'd buy used, they're always a lot used for sale and you can save a lot of cash. 
MusicManJP6
Well-known member
Definitiely buy the Mark IV used. I got a great deal on mine. As for the flabby bass, it is true that you have to not exceed 3 or 4 on the MKIV, but you can easily make up the difference with the Geq. It is the reason the Mark can sound SOOOO good IMO.
Kung-Fool
Well-known member
I run the bass on both of my dual rectos around 11:30 and it's plenty tight. When I had a 3ch. I had to run it around 9:00 or lower.
jdurso
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uhhhh what??? i have my bass set at near one on 3 of my 4 channels and 11 on the other and i dont get this flabby bass.... even when i had my mark iv and 2 channel TR i never had a problem with too much bass..... could be your preferance in sound.... but remember the eqs on most of the mesa amps dont respond like most other amps out there (meshall, fender, peavey, etc.)
ibanez4life SZ!
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I have also given this quite a bit of thought, and came up with a fairly rational explanation...maybe someone will agree.
It all really depends on the how the amp manufacturer looks at the tone stack and how consumers will use it. With other amps, where you can crank the bass to 10 and begin to beg a fat tone (ala Marshall, for one common example), the amps sound big with the bass high. Anything before then makes the tone seem thin.....I'd also say unusable, but in a different way. No one wants a thin tone.
Boogie, on the other hand, takes it to a new level. Instead of having the unusable level at the beginning, they start their bass knob at a level that is already very close to the "fat" point. From there, if someone requires more bass for a certain style....many modern styles overabuse bass quite a bit...it is there for the taking. I find this approach much more useful...as I said...no one wants a thin tone...with a boogie, the bass knobs doesn't really allow that.
For the record, I can only speculate at what Mesa's true intentions in design are.....but this seems logical to me
It all really depends on the how the amp manufacturer looks at the tone stack and how consumers will use it. With other amps, where you can crank the bass to 10 and begin to beg a fat tone (ala Marshall, for one common example), the amps sound big with the bass high. Anything before then makes the tone seem thin.....I'd also say unusable, but in a different way. No one wants a thin tone.
Boogie, on the other hand, takes it to a new level. Instead of having the unusable level at the beginning, they start their bass knob at a level that is already very close to the "fat" point. From there, if someone requires more bass for a certain style....many modern styles overabuse bass quite a bit...it is there for the taking. I find this approach much more useful...as I said...no one wants a thin tone...with a boogie, the bass knobs doesn't really allow that.
For the record, I can only speculate at what Mesa's true intentions in design are.....but this seems logical to me
ToneAddictJon
Well-known member
I think PC biz has the right question here, what cab? Also what guitars? The thing about a boogie is you can plug a low output strat into it and make it sound like a metal monster, but you have to crank the bass to a point that would be unusable with high output humbuckers. I would rather have my controls go to extremes rather than almost get the sound I want.
ThunderMonkey
Well-known member
You guys are bringing up some very important and key observations.
Mesa DOES over-engineer there tone stack options. It's that tried and true saying...."It's better to have more than you need than to need more than you have".
The learning curve with Mesa's is a little steeper, it forces you to educate yourself about your quest for tone. It's not a lazy man's guitar amp.
Mesa DOES over-engineer there tone stack options. It's that tried and true saying...."It's better to have more than you need than to need more than you have".
The learning curve with Mesa's is a little steeper, it forces you to educate yourself about your quest for tone. It's not a lazy man's guitar amp.
This is just my speculation. We all know the Mark series's tone stack circuitry is based on blackface Fenders. Mind you, those Fenders need a similar treatment ie. magic six eq. I think Mesa's main concern is that if they strayed away from the original design too much, they'd lose the main characteristic of the Mark's sound.
I think it doesn't matter if we have to set the bass low or anything like that, as long as we get the sound we want. I'd rather have a set of controls that actually does something than nothing (Marshall anyone?).
~trem
PS: Jamme, I remember your problem with the Mark IV is with R2 right? Why didn't you just use a boost?
I think it doesn't matter if we have to set the bass low or anything like that, as long as we get the sound we want. I'd rather have a set of controls that actually does something than nothing (Marshall anyone?).
~trem
PS: Jamme, I remember your problem with the Mark IV is with R2 right? Why didn't you just use a boost?
phyrexia
Well-known member
My rep came to my workplace yesterday and this topic actually was brought up.
Basically, the controls are powerful so that they are versatile. You don't need to turn the bass knob up very high when you're using lots of gain. But if you want to set the channel to a cleaner sound, you'll need to add bass to keep the sound from being thin. It really all works together very well.
Basically, the controls are powerful so that they are versatile. You don't need to turn the bass knob up very high when you're using lots of gain. But if you want to set the channel to a cleaner sound, you'll need to add bass to keep the sound from being thin. It really all works together very well.
[
What speaker cabinet are you using?[/quote]
Good questions I'm running most times through and open back with 2x12 celestion GH -12's and also I have a 1x12 mesa combo which has the stk black shadow in it. also I'm using a PRS single cut trem with #6 prs humbuckers, and also my problem was always with R2 on my Boogie (loved the other channels and I am using a boost now) My strat and tele sound the best on all my Mesa's except on the lead channel of the MIV, i love the humbuckers the best. With all this said I should mention that I'm happy with my mesa tone and have found my way around the bass flab problem. i posted this because I think the Mesa tone stack turns a lot of people off and takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to use. I guess once you figure it out your happy, but why make it so hard? and I don't care what you say the MKIV is a love hate thing. if you're trying to use all three channels together, with just the stk amp and no pedals, R1 and R2 fight each other and there's no way around it with out extra help. MKIV is a compromise : Great R1 = ok R2 : Great Rr2 ok R1 it's a nightmare. I know and have read many disagree with me but I think the mesa tone stack is a real pain in the arse and just the fact that most agree mesa's are hard to dial in proves it IMHO. I do find my express to be one of the easiest to dial in(still a ton of bass) but I've had a lot of time on these amps which helps me get there faster. I'm not saying you can't dial the flab out, I'm just saying, why use a tone stack like this in the first place? I guess that's what makes it a Mesa, so it is what it is, tweak on, buy the slim thin pedal, and don't forget to use the eq and try a clean boost to, the higher the gain pot the lower the bass ect.
What speaker cabinet are you using?[/quote]
Good questions I'm running most times through and open back with 2x12 celestion GH -12's and also I have a 1x12 mesa combo which has the stk black shadow in it. also I'm using a PRS single cut trem with #6 prs humbuckers, and also my problem was always with R2 on my Boogie (loved the other channels and I am using a boost now) My strat and tele sound the best on all my Mesa's except on the lead channel of the MIV, i love the humbuckers the best. With all this said I should mention that I'm happy with my mesa tone and have found my way around the bass flab problem. i posted this because I think the Mesa tone stack turns a lot of people off and takes a lot of time and effort to learn how to use. I guess once you figure it out your happy, but why make it so hard? and I don't care what you say the MKIV is a love hate thing. if you're trying to use all three channels together, with just the stk amp and no pedals, R1 and R2 fight each other and there's no way around it with out extra help. MKIV is a compromise : Great R1 = ok R2 : Great Rr2 ok R1 it's a nightmare. I know and have read many disagree with me but I think the mesa tone stack is a real pain in the arse and just the fact that most agree mesa's are hard to dial in proves it IMHO. I do find my express to be one of the easiest to dial in(still a ton of bass) but I've had a lot of time on these amps which helps me get there faster. I'm not saying you can't dial the flab out, I'm just saying, why use a tone stack like this in the first place? I guess that's what makes it a Mesa, so it is what it is, tweak on, buy the slim thin pedal, and don't forget to use the eq and try a clean boost to, the higher the gain pot the lower the bass ect.
richey
Well-known member
OFF-TOPIC:
Phyrexia, you must work at Bailey Brothers. Right?
Phyrexia, you must work at Bailey Brothers. Right?
lesterpaul
Well-known member
totally off...richey,isnt mt olive close to cull-man..?if so, welcome to the NAMM(North Al Mesa Mafia)Joey B. is the "kingpin"..the rest of us are just knights in Satan's service
:twisted: :evil:
:twisted: :evil:
phyrexia
Well-known member
richey said:
I must.
I don't try to spam the board though. I just pay my (ever increasing) bills. I've met the kingpin. Paid my dues, bought some speakers, gave him some gas money.
jdurso
Well-known member
ibanez4life SZ! said:I have also given this quite a bit of thought, and came up with a fairly rational explanation...maybe someone will agree.
It all really depends on the how the amp manufacturer looks at the tone stack and how consumers will use it. With other amps, where you can crank the bass to 10 and begin to beg a fat tone (ala Marshall, for one common example), the amps sound big with the bass high. Anything before then makes the tone seem thin.....I'd also say unusable, but in a different way. No one wants a thin tone.
Boogie, on the other hand, takes it to a new level. Instead of having the unusable level at the beginning, they start their bass knob at a level that is already very close to the "fat" point. From there, if someone requires more bass for a certain style....many modern styles overabuse bass quite a bit...it is there for the taking. I find this approach much more useful...as I said...no one wants a thin tone...with a boogie, the bass knobs doesn't really allow that.
For the record, I can only speculate at what Mesa's true intentions in design are.....but this seems logical to me
well said..... +10000000000000000000
Who cares where the knob is "set" as long as it sounds good. I found a real easy way to set the EQ, I have someone else tweak the amp while I play at gig levels. Ya know, the ol' "more mids" or "less treble" shouting :lol:
It's funny because my ch 4 Modern rhythm ended up all at 12-12:30 in the EQ this way and it sounds the best to me there. Right where Mesa designed it :wink:
Dom
It's funny because my ch 4 Modern rhythm ended up all at 12-12:30 in the EQ this way and it sounds the best to me there. Right where Mesa designed it :wink:
Dom
Shep
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it's just how they are tone stacked.. the bass controls that frequency
Brentsp
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Just to shed some light for you guys.......
The massive low end that you guys are talking about, for example the recto, has nothing to do with the tone stack, its basically a SLO tone stack (47k/470pf) on the vintage side and 47k/680pf on the modern mode. The tone caps are the usual .022uf for mid and bass just like Marshall and Soldano.
The difference lies with the value of bass pot they use. If you changed that pot out to the usual 1meg audio like Marshall/Soldano then the bass would be more usable. What Mesa is doing is simple but very effective. Bogner does a similar thing to get there amps voiced chewy and warm. Pretty cool huh 8)
The massive low end that you guys are talking about, for example the recto, has nothing to do with the tone stack, its basically a SLO tone stack (47k/470pf) on the vintage side and 47k/680pf on the modern mode. The tone caps are the usual .022uf for mid and bass just like Marshall and Soldano.
The difference lies with the value of bass pot they use. If you changed that pot out to the usual 1meg audio like Marshall/Soldano then the bass would be more usable. What Mesa is doing is simple but very effective. Bogner does a similar thing to get there amps voiced chewy and warm. Pretty cool huh 8)
