When the Mark V shows up in Guitar Center

[nicoroy123]

My very humble opinion about it is that Mesa have this selling model to preserve the prestige and image of the Brand. This way, Mesa amps are perseived as High-End stuff and almost "boutique" amps. Would someone buy a Mercedes or a Hi-Fi sound system over the internet? Of course not. Clients wants to hear it, try it, feel it, discuss with the salesman etc...

It also preserves a certain effect of rareness and make the amp less common, so it allows Mesa to keep the prices pretty high. It also avoid technical problems due to shipping.

I think selling Mesa amps over the net would make them more common amps, would increase price competition and finally decrease the overall value/image of the product. It might not be a bad thing for consumers, and probably not for Mesa either since overall sales may increase but it may damage the brand and image of their products in the long run.

My 2 cents.

 

[simonich]

If they wanted to allow internet sales I would advise them to sell direct. The problem with that approach is it sets up a channel conflict with the dealers, i.e. Mesa is competing directly with their dealers. The only way to fix that is to get the incentives right in the dealer arrangement. Reality is at some point, if Mesa wants to grow at a given rate, they will have to go to direct sales (I predict). Then again, they may be content to grow at a slower rate.

 

[boof]

It's like buying a car. Don't you want to test drive it first? How would you do that without dealers who are willing to take an inventory risk for profit? The net is great for buying used items and "commodity" items, but for high-priced specialty items, many people still want to test drive them, and manufacturers want their product available for public viewing. A dealer network is key for that, and manufacturers strive to protect their dealers.

Here's a scenario: Internet retailers have a clear overhead cost advantage versus a store, so they can sell cheaper. A dealer stocks the amps, people demo the amps but buy from the discounted seller. The dealer drops the Mesa line and there are no places to demo the amps. People buying on the web are dissatisfied and give Mesa a bad name because they bought something that did not suit their needs. They then dump their amps and hurt the market price.

Or, Mesa loses sales to people who would buy one if they could demo it. No dealer, no demo.

There are no places to demo Mesas and people complain about that - more bad press.

Or warranty repairs. Send everything back to Mesa? More complaints that there are no local authorized dealers/reps.

Getting the product in the public's hands and providing support after the sale are key. This doesn't happen without dealers, and dealers are more inclined to carry the line with manufacturer support. I'd rather pay a little more to the "middle man" knowing I can demo it. Buying blind (or deaf!), I run the risk of needing to resell it at a loss, shipping it, hassle, etc. It probably will cost me just as much in the end, not to mention the time and effort in reselling it.

you should take note of the people that advertise on this board as well
http://www.musicpower.com/storeitems.asp?bc=Mesa-Boogie

 

[dodger916]

It's like buying a car. Don't you want to test drive it first? How would you do that without dealers who are willing to take an inventory risk for profit? The net is great for buying used items and "commodity" items, but for high-priced specialty items, many people still want to test drive them, and manufacturers want their product available for public viewing. A dealer network is key for that, and manufacturers strive to protect their dealers.

Here's a scenario: Internet retailers have a clear overhead cost advantage versus a store, so they can sell cheaper. A dealer stocks the amps, people demo the amps but buy from the discounted seller. The dealer drops the Mesa line and there are no places to demo the amps. People buying on the web are dissatisfied and give Mesa a bad name because they bought something that did not suit their needs. They then dump their amps and hurt the market price.

Or, Mesa loses sales to people who would buy one if they could demo it. No dealer, no demo.

There are no places to demo Mesas and people complain about that - more bad press.

Or warranty repairs. Send everything back to Mesa? More complaints that there are no local authorized dealers/reps.

Getting the product in the public's hands and providing support after the sale are key. This doesn't happen without dealers, and dealers are more inclined to carry the line with manufacturer support. I'd rather pay a little more to the "middle man" knowing I can demo it. Buying blind (or deaf!), I run the risk of needing to resell it at a loss, shipping it, hassle, etc. It probably will cost me just as much in the end, not to mention the time and effort in reselling it.

you should take note of the people that advertise on this board as well
http://www.musicpower.com/storeitems.asp?bc=Mesa-Boogie

I'm aware of it and I've cited it on several occasions. That doesn't change the value of having dealers that stock and demo amps. I hope it works for Mesa; I also hope it doesn't kill our ability to demo amps in stores. I doubt I'd buy one without demo'ing it, but that's just me. And for people who don't live in major cities (like me), it could become a major inconvenience. My nearest dealers are 1 hour (Syracuse GC) and 1 3/4 hours away (Rochester GC and House of Guitars).

 

[dodger916]

Clients wants to hear it, try it, feel it, discuss with the salesman etc...

dude get over it. I've been to mesa hollywood several times and it basically sucks. it's a small space (not even a separate room with doors like GC's) and the guys that work there are arrogant and annoying when you really need help (as in my ex-deuce ate sh!t 3 times in a row - defective or bad tubes? - and I forced petaluma to have hollywood issue a refund)

you buy it blind sometimes and return it, i do that all the time with MF. There are more expensive amps on MF, no big deal dude...

oh hey guys: there's a wine & cheese party for the unveiling of the first batch of Mark V's in petaluma. dork *** church-dressed mofo yo yo bob w/ syrup on top... with special guest condy rice and richard simmons.

the return policy at hollywood is 7 days store credit. MF is 45 days cash back. demonstrate.

OK, so maybe $150+ in round-trip shipping is no big deal to you. I'd rather spend $20 in gas to buy and return and pay a bit more to the middleman, who also happens to be a taxpayer and employer in my State.

 

[JOEY B.]

1) MF typically ships for free (you pay return shipping). no tax if out of state.

2) i don't believe in government anymore. California (as well as dozens of other states) are in the red *hardcore*. And the federal, well you know the status. sh!t rules.

Are you a big Bill Clinton and NAFTA fan? I wished that I still had a local MESA dealer. There used to be one less than 2 miles from my house. The internet sales and shitty economy closed his doors. Now I have to drive 80+ miles to my nearest Boogie dealer, and that really sucks. Also, if you see me in church clothes, a close family member is dead! :wink:

 

[jdurso]

If they wanted to allow internet sales I would advise them to sell direct. The problem with that approach is it sets up a channel conflict with the dealers, i.e. Mesa is competing directly with their dealers. The only way to fix that is to get the incentives right in the dealer arrangement. Reality is at some point, if Mesa wants to grow at a given rate, they will have to go to direct sales (I predict). Then again, they may be content to grow at a slower rate.

I dont see why they would feel the need to grow any faster/bigger than they currently are. Mesa already holds a huge place in the market and at the same time still keep some of the tradition and ethics of a boutique type producer. That in itself is a huge accomplishment in my book and they do it while keeping their price points competitve.

The only reason i see an advantage to factory direct is for those who are going to buy Mesa regardless (like many of us on the BB), we would probably save a nice little chunk of $$$. But that would mean they're under cutting their dealers which at some point would dissolve and would only be factory direct. If that would be the case they would most definitely grow slower and return to more of a boutique operation.

Now say they went full blown online retailers similar to say a fender or Marshall business model... now they have to up production, build faster, produce more, etc. If its not a slow, proportional growth, quality will begin to dissolve in order to meet demand. That usually means more flawed amps that will either run up repair costs that are under warranty (cost that mesa would have to eat) and/or the used market would be flooded with subpar amps. That in itself will lead to a tarnishing of the mesa name which in turn will result in true Mesa followers/lovers turning to another company or coveting the "good old days". Doesnt this sound familiar.... cough: Marshall :cough: Fender :cough: Gibson :cough. Now i'm not saying those companies dont still put out some great stuff... they do, but i find them hit or miss. Too much flex in their quality, too little connection with their customer base... personally I'd love to see Randall and the guys in Pentaluma provide more and more people with flexibility in the way they make their purchases, but not if that means sacrificing their quality (which whether you like Mesa amps, you cant deny their rock solid quality) and losing touch with the customer base that have been supporting them for the last 40 years.

At the end of the day, companies like PRS and Mesa have it right. They have great marketing models, produce quality year in and year out in every model. They provide a product that wont give out on you after years of abuse and they keep their fingers on the pulse of their customer base. Are they bigger now more than in the past? Yes but no so big that it hurts other parts of their business model. At the end of the day i think they realize this which is why they have the restrictions they do... yeah it may not be favorable to a retailer, but at the end of the day retailers are all about making as much $$$, most (especially GC) don't put their customer as priority #1 because out of every 10 musicians buying gear at a given time, over half know very little about what they're buying.

 

[jdurso]

wouldn't it be so much easier to be a vocalist? maybe some effects and you're done...

but clearly not as fun... the journey is what makes it all worth it

 

[Elixir]

If they wanted to allow internet sales I would advise them to sell direct. The problem with that approach is it sets up a channel conflict with the dealers, i.e. Mesa is competing directly with their dealers. The only way to fix that is to get the incentives right in the dealer arrangement. Reality is at some point, if Mesa wants to grow at a given rate, they will have to go to direct sales (I predict). Then again, they may be content to grow at a slower rate.

I dont see why they would feel the need to grow any faster/bigger than they currently are. Mesa already holds a huge place in the market and at the same time still keep some of the tradition and ethics of a boutique type producer. That in itself is a huge accomplishment in my book and they do it while keeping their price points competitve.

The only reason i see an advantage to factory direct is for those who are going to buy Mesa regardless (like many of us on the BB), we would probably save a nice little chunk of $$$. But that would mean they're under cutting their dealers which at some point would dissolve and would only be factory direct. If that would be the case they would most definitely grow slower and return to more of a boutique operation.

Now say they went full blown online retailers similar to say a fender or Marshall business model... now they have to up production, build faster, produce more, etc. If its not a slow, proportional growth, quality will begin to dissolve in order to meet demand. That usually means more flawed amps that will either run up repair costs that are under warranty (cost that mesa would have to eat) and/or the used market would be flooded with subpar amps. That in itself will lead to a tarnishing of the mesa name which in turn will result in true Mesa followers/lovers turning to another company or coveting the "good old days". Doesnt this sound familiar.... cough: Marshall :cough: Fender :cough: Gibson :cough. Now i'm not saying those companies dont still put out some great stuff... they do, but i find them hit or miss. Too much flex in their quality, too little connection with their customer base... personally I'd love to see Randall and the guys in Pentaluma provide more and more people with flexibility in the way they make their purchases, but not if that means sacrificing their quality (which whether you like Mesa amps, you cant deny their rock solid quality) and losing touch with the customer base that have been supporting them for the last 40 years.

At the end of the day, companies like PRS and Mesa have it right. They have great marketing models, produce quality year in and year out in every model. They provide a product that wont give out on you after years of abuse and they keep their fingers on the pulse of their customer base. Are they bigger now more than in the past? Yes but no so big that it hurts other parts of their business model. At the end of the day i think they realize this which is why they have the restrictions they do... yeah it may not be favorable to a retailer, but at the end of the day retailers are all about making as much $$$, most (especially GC) don't put their customer as priority #1 because out of every 10 musicians buying gear at a given time, over half know very little about what they're buying.

Good post. In recent times "growth" seems to be the real evil of business. Companies and the market itself is so hell bent on growth growth growth that a lot of times they grow themselves broke and fall into either bankruptcy or fraud (or both, one usually follows the other).

The only gripe I have is sometimes not able to try out the gear before buying. Besides that i'm fine with the way they run their business.

 

[Elixir]

If they wanted to allow internet sales I would advise them to sell direct. The problem with that approach is it sets up a channel conflict with the dealers, i.e. Mesa is competing directly with their dealers. The only way to fix that is to get the incentives right in the dealer arrangement. Reality is at some point, if Mesa wants to grow at a given rate, they will have to go to direct sales (I predict). Then again, they may be content to grow at a slower rate.

I dont see why they would feel the need to grow any faster/bigger than they currently are. Mesa already holds a huge place in the market and at the same time still keep some of the tradition and ethics of a boutique type producer. That in itself is a huge accomplishment in my book and they do it while keeping their price points competitve.

The only reason i see an advantage to factory direct is for those who are going to buy Mesa regardless (like many of us on the BB), we would probably save a nice little chunk of $$$. But that would mean they're under cutting their dealers which at some point would dissolve and would only be factory direct. If that would be the case they would most definitely grow slower and return to more of a boutique operation.

Now say they went full blown online retailers similar to say a fender or Marshall business model... now they have to up production, build faster, produce more, etc. If its not a slow, proportional growth, quality will begin to dissolve in order to meet demand. That usually means more flawed amps that will either run up repair costs that are under warranty (cost that mesa would have to eat) and/or the used market would be flooded with subpar amps. That in itself will lead to a tarnishing of the mesa name which in turn will result in true Mesa followers/lovers turning to another company or coveting the "good old days". Doesnt this sound familiar.... cough: Marshall :cough: Fender :cough: Gibson :cough. Now i'm not saying those companies dont still put out some great stuff... they do, but i find them hit or miss. Too much flex in their quality, too little connection with their customer base... personally I'd love to see Randall and the guys in Pentaluma provide more and more people with flexibility in the way they make their purchases, but not if that means sacrificing their quality (which whether you like Mesa amps, you cant deny their rock solid quality) and losing touch with the customer base that have been supporting them for the last 40 years.

At the end of the day, companies like PRS and Mesa have it right. They have great marketing models, produce quality year in and year out in every model. They provide a product that wont give out on you after years of abuse and they keep their fingers on the pulse of their customer base. Are they bigger now more than in the past? Yes but no so big that it hurts other parts of their business model. At the end of the day i think they realize this which is why they have the restrictions they do... yeah it may not be favorable to a retailer, but at the end of the day retailers are all about making as much $$$, most (especially GC) don't put their customer as priority #1 because out of every 10 musicians buying gear at a given time, over half know very little about what they're buying.

Good post. In recent times "growth" seems to be the real evil of business. Companies and the market itself is so hell bent on growth growth growth that a lot of times they grow themselves broke and fall into either bankruptcy or fraud (or both, one usually follows the other).

The only gripe I have is sometimes not able to try out the gear before buying. Besides that i'm fine with the way they run their business.

 

[jdurso]

Good post. In recent times "growth" seems to be the real evil of business. Companies and the market itself is so hell bent on growth growth growth that a lot of times they grow themselves broke and fall into either bankruptcy or fraud (or both, one usually follows the other).

The only gripe I have is sometimes not able to try out the gear before buying. Besides that i'm fine with the way they run their business.

Yeah i work for one of those companies and its miserable the fact that every 3 months we have to make cuts in order to normalize our size.

But i do hear you on being able to demo before you buy. Luckily I dont have that problem for Mesa but for amps like Diezel, Bogner, ENGL, etc its hard to find particular amps locally.

 

[Satch12879]

I bought a Taylor 814 that ended up having problems with the electronics and pretty much without question they swapped me for a brand new one. And this was only after having the guitar maybe a week. So, indeed, I've never had any real problems with them, save for sales people never calling back when I inquired about a special order or spare parts, etc. The loud lounge in the stores are great sanity savers because lots of times even the sales reps leave you alone to mess around to your heart's content.

 

[MarkIVwidebody]

Try living 60 miles one way from a town like Dayton or Toledo-or 90 miles from Columbus or Ft.Wayne. Every **** piece of gear I buy has to be hit or miss from the internet. The last amp I bought from a huge online retailer didn't even power up and I had to send it back and wait 2 weeks for another mass produced in China amp.