What are Mesa Boogie going to do about the tube scarcity?

[joseph1597]

What is Mesa boogie going to do whenever the tube stock is completely used up?

 

[slybird]

I will be surprised if Mesa's power tube supply issue is solved within the next 2 to 3 years.

the US will likely not resume normal trade/economic relations with Russia any time soon.

China supply issues will take at least another 2 years to clear up. Is also possible China decides to take of Taiwan. That will certainly slow everything down even more.

Not sure what other factories make tubes, where they are located, or if those factories are even capable of meeting Mesa's needs.

It will take a long time and a lot of money to build or relocate a tube factory.

 

[Janglin_Jack]

The buying public will realize you don't have to buy their branded tubes.

 

[user 41014]

Western Electric is said to be starting the 12AX7 this summer down in Georgia.

Someone should start a petition for the WE 7581A so power tubes are never an issue in the future. Or a winged =C= which is a copy of the 387 (and the 7581A is just a higher quality testing 387). So basically we need a robust, very high QA standard 387.

WE, can you hear us?

For all the reasons stated above is time to start on-shoring everything from stupid plastic parts to high end electronics. It's micro-economic stupidity at it's worst. But if large countries take out the sledgehammer of imperialism to loot their neighbors 19th century style because they failed to take over the world 150 years ago it is what it is. Seems like we read this book 85 years ago. We didn't learn much about whirled peas. Telling the world Iraq had WMD's to run the price of oil up by oil politicians was as believable as the FED telling us inflation was transitory so we are not leading by example.

 

[Rbh]

There's a good sized steady market in the Us.... and there will be an opportunity to market a high end modernized manufacturing and engineering in the global market for tubes. Truth is: digital modeling and each cycle of new software has a VERY VERY short life span. It has a huge market as well. but there are differences in product life span that makes real amp products an " investment " over the other. Lets hope the new Western electric brand sells huge to the OEM market. Just as today they will manufacture and amp co.s will buy and test/spec.

 

[austin sonar guru]

I don't see any shortage. I can buy all the tubes I need. I use mainly NOS in my Mesa in any event. In fact, I've only gone through ~2 sets of tubes in 27 years. Only EL-84's I use are TAD and I can get them at about the same cost as before COVID.

 

[VisaL]

That’s how i see it as well. Prices went up about 10-15% just like everything else but tubes are readily available. After the covid there seems to be market for 2nd hand tubes which is weird. I personally would not buy used tubes as who knows how much life they have left in. People also seem to be more mindfull about not replacing fully functional tubes. Which is good and helps to counter the diminishing supply. Would you change a lightbulb if it’s working? Same goes for caps, some techs want to get work in off course they say caps need replacing every 10-15yrs.

 

[austin sonar guru]

My Sprague caps are 27 years old as well. No hum, no hiss in my amp.

 

[Sinner's Swing!]

Does Mesa only make one set of EL-84s? Just wondering, I didn't see any different color coding when I looked. Kinda of looked like black on top of gray without removing anything. I just recently picked up a Mark V:25 so I doubt they will need replacing anytime soon, it was made in 2020.

 

[woodbutcher65]

At this time Russian made tubes from the New Sensor Reflektor factory are NOT embargoed or otherwise unavailable, though depending on what country you live in you may have to pay more due to tariffs.

The only tube I see missing from New Sensor's lineup is the Tung-Sol KT150 which no guitar amp uses anyway.

 

[bandit2013]

I feel what you may find through most resources is their current inventory. If there is any ban on Russian made product, it may take some time for that stock on hand to be depleted.

Mesa is working with JJ tubes, not in Russia, it is west of Ukraine in Slovakia. For some reason, this resource has been slow. Would not doubt COVID had something to do with it. Also do not know where they resource the raw components to build the tubes, that can also be an issue.

TAD tubes are made in China, those would be the STR448 and STR446. Get your tubes while there is some sort of trade going on. If China decided to wipe out Tiawan, I would assume there will be some sort of ban on Chinese trade. I am not going to wait for Westinghouse to get up and running. May as well stock up while I can so I have something when I need it. Would be really great to get a USA made tube again without having to refinance the home to afford it.

 

[Sinner's Swing!]

This amp is from 2020, right before the Gibson takeover. So, I probably won't need power tubes for a while. I only saw one set of EL-84s available, they seem like the same that are used in my Mark V, I'd have to remove the cage to see for sure.

 

[bandit2013]

All Mesa power tubes generally have a label on them. Those with a plastic base like the 6L6GC, EL34, and 6V6 will have a silver label placed on the base. As for the EL84 tubes, they have no base to speak of. Not sure there are any labels on them. I did look at the web site and they have a black and gold label placed at the bottom of the tube. It could fall off due to heating. That is usually where the bias color is placed. I am not sure what you mean about the black on top of grey. The label on the tube should have RED, YEL, GRN, GRY, BLU for red, yellow, green, grey, blue. If there is no label on the tubes, no telling what their bias color is.

https://store.mesaboogie.com/products/power-tubes-el84-6bq5-matched-pair.html
Power tubes of any type do not last as long as the preamp tubes. Depends on how many hours of use were on the amp. It will only hurt your wallet to get a replacement set to have on hand when they do begin to show signs of EOL (end of life). At least get a match pair to replace the power tubes when that time comes. Last thing you want to end up with is a 6 month wait. That was how long it took me to get the STR445 tubes. They are a stock item but long lead times. Sweetwater actually removed that tube from their website as they did not want to take orders for something that could take a long time to get. I believe the EL84 tubes are Russian tubes. The closest one I could find was the Sovtek but based on images only. The Mica spacers were a close match, they look much like the rest of the other Russian tubes as they are made by the same company. (Mullard, Tung Sol, EH, Reflektor). JJ versions are not made in Russia so there is that option.

 

[robvoyles]

I feel what you may find through most resources is their current inventory. If there is any ban on Russian made product, it may take some time for that stock on hand to be depleted.

Mesa is working with JJ tubes, not in Russia, it is west of Ukraine in Slovakia. For some reason, this resource has been slow. Would not doubt COVID had something to do with it. Also do not know where they resource the raw components to build the tubes, that can also be an issue.

TAD tubes are made in China, those would be the STR448 and STR446. Get your tubes while there is some sort of trade going on. If China decided to wipe out Tiawan, I would assume there will be some sort of ban on Chinese trade. I am not going to wait for Westinghouse to get up and running. May as well stock up while I can so I have something when I need it. Would be really great to get a USA made tube again without having to refinance the home to afford it.

90% of all products in the USA are made in China, if they stopped trading with China, our country would have basically no products to buy. Tubes would be the least of our problems respectfully.

 

[bandit2013]

Well, that can happen. The future is uncertain.

 

[woodbutcher65]

As of now there is no ban or embargo on the New Sensor tubes from the Reflektor factory. They're in production and shipping to Western countries. For now the supply of those brands is stable. All vendors that usually sell them have them in stock.

 

[Sinner's Swing!]

All Mesa power tubes generally have a label on them. Those with a plastic base like the 6L6GC, EL34, and 6V6 will have a silver label placed on the base. As for the EL84 tubes, they have no base to speak of. Not sure there are any labels on them. I did look at the web site and they have a black and gold label placed at the bottom of the tube. It could fall off due to heating. That is usually where the bias color is placed. I am not sure what you mean about the black on top of grey. The label on the tube should have RED, YEL, GRN, GRY, BLU for red, yellow, green, grey, blue. If there is no label on the tubes, no telling what their bias color is.

https://store.mesaboogie.com/products/power-tubes-el84-6bq5-matched-pair.html
Power tubes of any type do not last as long as the preamp tubes. Depends on how many hours of use were on the amp. It will only hurt your wallet to get a replacement set to have on hand when they do begin to show signs of EOL (end of life). At least get a match pair to replace the power tubes when that time comes. Last thing you want to end up with is a 6 month wait. That was how long it took me to get the STR445 tubes. They are a stock item but long lead times. Sweetwater actually removed that tube from their website as they did not want to take orders for something that could take a long time to get. I believe the EL84 tubes are Russian tubes. The closest one I could find was the Sovtek but based on images only. The Mica spacers were a close match, they look much like the rest of the other Russian tubes as they are made by the same company. (Mullard, Tung Sol, EH, Reflektor). JJ versions are not made in Russia so there is that option.

Thanks for sharing. Pretty sure that is the correct tube. It says "AC Gray" or something like that on the label, so those are most likely the same. I'll take a look today, definitely worth ordering a backup set.

 

[Sinner's Swing!]

So I took the cage off of the back of my Mark V:25 and you can barely see the labeling on the EL-84 tubes anymore (after 3 years with moderate use, seems like the heat probably got to them, even a few months ago it was easier to read) and they actually say AC BLU. So now I don't know if the link you sent will work, it does say stock in the Mark V:25, but I really don't want to have to rebias the amp. Much easier to just buy the tubes from Mesa with the coding.

 

[Sinner's Swing!]

All Mesa power tubes generally have a label on them. Those with a plastic base like the 6L6GC, EL34, and 6V6 will have a silver label placed on the base. As for the EL84 tubes, they have no base to speak of. Not sure there are any labels on them. I did look at the web site and they have a black and gold label placed at the bottom of the tube. It could fall off due to heating. That is usually where the bias color is placed. I am not sure what you mean about the black on top of grey. The label on the tube should have RED, YEL, GRN, GRY, BLU for red, yellow, green, grey, blue. If there is no label on the tubes, no telling what their bias color is.

https://store.mesaboogie.com/products/power-tubes-el84-6bq5-matched-pair.html
Power tubes of any type do not last as long as the preamp tubes. Depends on how many hours of use were on the amp. It will only hurt your wallet to get a replacement set to have on hand when they do begin to show signs of EOL (end of life). At least get a match pair to replace the power tubes when that time comes. Last thing you want to end up with is a 6 month wait. That was how long it took me to get the STR445 tubes. They are a stock item but long lead times. Sweetwater actually removed that tube from their website as they did not want to take orders for something that could take a long time to get. I believe the EL84 tubes are Russian tubes. The closest one I could find was the Sovtek but based on images only. The Mica spacers were a close match, they look much like the rest of the other Russian tubes as they are made by the same company. (Mullard, Tung Sol, EH, Reflektor). JJ versions are not made in Russia so there is that option.

Hey bandit,

So, after doing some research (I am not an amp or Mesa expert by any means, but I know some things) I realized that the Mark V:25 and most (if not all) Mesas are fixed bias. So, I think the AC GRY EL-84s would work, but I guess they would run a little less hot? Bottom line, I just want to get a spare set of EL-84s for my Mark V. Should I wait to see if the BLU's become available or just grab the ones they have available now? I don't have the knowledge to test tubes and all that jazz. Thanks for all of your contributions to this community, it has been helpful as I have tried to familiarize myself more with the various Mesa amps.

 

[bandit2013]

Yes, the EL84 in grey bias color will be one step down from the blue. As for character, of the EL84 tubes, I am not familiar with them. If they are anything like the STR447 EL34, there may not be much of a notable difference between the blue and grey. If they behave much like the 6L6 tubes, you would notice it. Grey would be OK and similar to the Blue but, again, I have no Mesa EL84 based amps. All I got are EL34, 6L6 or 6V6. Since it is only one pair of tubes, it is hard to tell how inventory may change in distribution or from Mesa direct (assuming you can order from the Mesa store again). You could call around and ask for the blues if they have them. If you are in Europe, get the greys.

I am in the USA, it took me almost 4+ months to get a quad of the STR445 tubes. I forgot the timeline as I was also waiting for the 12AX7 tubes and that was 2 months. I usually order from SweetWater but they did not have the STR445 to select (it was disabled) but American Music Supply (AMS) showed inventory of the STR445, it was old information and it got backordered on me. Tubes are hard to get these days. I would probably get the greys. It will have just a bit more headroom than the blues.

You can ask in the Mark V forum what others are using with their Mark V:25 in terms of bias colors. Not sure if anyone really pays attention to that. I personally found it important but depends on the amp in question.