what about epiphone ?

[user 7737]

as i already said, i'm obsessed by les paul on this time...

first of all, i already read every related LP thread here... (i read about tokai, etc... )

but... if there's some fresh news or opinions...

what about epiphone ?

i have a good deal for a granada les paul copy... this brand is from a school guitar in canada i think... made at matsumoko factory in late 70's and early 80's

i'm sure that gibson's are better... but comon' ! i can afford a 80's gibsons even the new one in second hands are about 1 500 and 2 000 €... epiphones are about 250 and 500 € which is more in my budget... european budget... you US guys are f***** lucky about gear when i see the prices

 

[Nylisk]

I was in my local shop and they had this brand "Jay Turser" guitars. I guess they used to make epiphones and lost the contract years ago. So now they're still making what amounts to "cheap guitars" but **** they're pretty good for the price tag. I was looking at their Les Paul version and it was $150! The quality was really good.

I'm thinking about getting one and doing stupid **** to it so I don't care if I "ruin it", like drawing scales on the fret board and taking it camping. I have an epiphone which some of you would probably consider to be a beater guitar already...

 

[Rocky]

Jay Turser h as never held the oversea Epi contract. You were being pissed on.

 

[user 7737]

ok... and does anyone know something about this granada ?

 

[BobL]

Granada guitars are usually lumped into a group of guitars known as law suit guitars. Generally guitars from this era looked like a Gibson (Or even a Fender) but lacked enough quality to make them really worth having. Some of the Japanese clones are worth having, but that's another matter and another thread.

You mention Epiphone. Epiphone was Gibsons biggest competitor at one time and the name comes from the companies founder Epi Stathopoulo. They were most famous for their upright bass guitars, something Gibson didn't have. It was just after WWII that the Epiphone company fell on some hard times and was bought by Gibson hoping to make a killing with the addition of the bass and the rest of the Epiphone line. It didn't work out quite as expected, however, Epiphones were being made on Parsons Street right along side the rest of Gibsons line until 1970, and those Epiphones carry a pretty good price tag today. Think Beatles.

About 1970 Gibson decided that they had to compete with the lower cost guitars coming in from overseas and moved all Epiphone manufacturing to Japan. They were successful and Gibson was able to compete with all of the low cost vendors, Fender included, think Squire. Epiphone today is still a pretty good mid priced guitar. They are well made, look good and sound good. My first guitar was a 1961 Melody Maker and it cost me $60 and there was nothing else in it's price range. If I were beggining I would spend $5-600 on an Epiphone and be just as happy as I was then, but with a better guitar. Also, for the most part, most Epiphones are now made in Korea, although once in a while there are some very limited runs made right here in the good old USA.

Good luck.

 

[Rocky]

Most Epiphones are now made in China.

 

[trem]

If you really want a good epi, I'd suggest that you scour ebay for Made in Japan (MIJ) Epiphone, or its predecessors, Orville and Orville by Gibson - same stuff, just different brand. They're made by Ibanez. They have all the hallmarks of a true Les Paul, namely lightweight (good wood), non-weight relieved, open book headstock, nitro finish, thick maple cap, good fret job, long tennon neck joint, full sized pots etc etc. Priced at around 700 to 1200 US.

Most importantly, they sound and play better than regular Gibson LP, except maybe historic reissue line.

If you still want a korean guitar, consider PRS SE. Same factory that made regular epis, but with tighter quality control.

~trem

 

[Rocky]

Lets get our facts straight please.

Elitist Epiphones are NOT MADE BY IBANEZ. Epi's Elitist line is made in the Fujigen Gaki plant......that plant is NOT owned by Ibanez. That plant DOES make a lot of Ibanez' high end pieces but those are subcontracted by ibanez just like the Epi Elitist series is subcontracted by Gibson.

Blanket statements like "they are better than a regular line Gibson" are completely off base. Sound better? I disagree and that is a subjective thing in EVERY way. Play better? That depends on who does your setups. You are NOT getting a premium wood in your Elitist guitar....you are getting good stuff but it isnt the same stuff Gibson tossed into their Nashville or Bozeman plants.

Contrary to (what seems to be) popular belief Gibson is NOT run by idiots.

Bad playing and poorly set up Les Pauls are the result of YOUR DEALER employing dolts that cannot maintain their stock and allowing customers to make string height tweaks and other th ings that should NOT happen.

The Gibson has bad QC is largely people that have no idea or can't afford a high end guitar looking for a mark.

Of course someone here will perk up with the old "I make in excess of 100K a year, can play what I want, and refuse to play Gibsons because of the QC." My reply? "dont be so predictable"

 

[trem]

I stand corrected. Thanks Rocky. I meant to type Fujigen.

 

[trem]

Blanket statements like "they are better than a regular line Gibson" are completely off base. Sound better? I disagree and that is a subjective thing in EVERY way. Play better? That depends on who does your setups. You are NOT getting a premium wood in your Elitist guitar....you are getting good stuff but it isnt the same stuff Gibson tossed into their Nashville or Bozeman plants.

Fine. IN MY EXPERIENCE, the MIJ Epis play and sound better than most regular Gibson LP. I had a Gibson as well.

~trem

 

[themisfit138]

Fine. IN MY EXPERIENCE, the MIJ Epis play and sound better than most regular Gibson LP. I had a Gibson as well.

~trem[/quote]
If by Gibson LP you mean Studio I would agree, but an Epi isn't even in the same league as a Custom or a Classic

 

[Rocky]

Or a Standard.

 

[user 7737]

even if i like to, i really can't afford a gibson...

so :

epiphone (elit)
orville
tokai

all MIJ

let's try to find one

 

[trem]

I had standards from both brands. Bear in mind I was referring to MIJ Epis for Japanese market, not Elitist. I know Elitist is supposed to be MIJ, but I don't know how it compares with the regular MIJ Epi. Never touch one.

 

[edgarallanpoe]

The Gibson has bad QC is largely people that have no idea or can't afford a high end guitar looking for a mark.

Dead wrong. I can afford a Gibson, in fact the guitars I choose to play are more expensive than Gibsons. I cannot tell you how many LPs I have come across that have poor nut work and sloppy frets. That is *not* a dealer issue. That problem rests solely on Gibson and it is inexcusable. An acquaintance of mine who works at the Gibson factory agrees with me and tells me that the guys are relying on the Plek machine too much and are getting really sloppy/lazy because of the machine.

I am not bashing Gibson. The LP Class 5 I had was a great guitar, and I have had my share of great LPs and SGs. But it is dead wrong to dismiss criticism of Gibson as coming from

people that have no idea or can't afford a high end guitar looking for a mark

That being said...I agree with you about the Epis. They aren't the same thing, and aren't in the same league. The MIJ Epis are good guitars for the money, but the Gibson equivalent is simply superior in every way.

 

[Rocky]

I have seen bad nut work on many high end factory builders, not just gibson. Fender, PRS etc all have some pretty major issues. If you want a true top notch guitar boutique is the only way to go.

I think Plek machines do a better job than any human. I have sent in 3 or 4 guitars for a plecking (that sounds so dirty) and the results have been amazing on all of the instruments. Even John Suhr (who is a god at fret dressing) has gone to the Plek machine for his instruments.

 

[edgarallanpoe]

I have seen bad nut work on many high end factory builders, not just gibson. Fender, PRS etc all have some pretty major issues.

That doesn't make it right. For what these guys are charging, a properly cut nut, and properly seated frets is not asking for too much.

I think Plek machines do a better job than any human. I have sent in 3 or 4 guitars for a plecking (that sounds so dirty) and the results have been amazing on all of the instruments. Even John Suhr (who is a god at fret dressing) has gone to the Plek machine for his instruments.

Agreed, but the Plek machine can't do it all. There still has to be some quality work *before* the Plek machine does its magic. From what my buddy says, the guys feel like the Plek machine will fix everything, and that isn't true. Consequently, they are not putting the effort/time into doing things right *before* the Plek machine.

 

[Rocky]

That is the problem with hiring non skilled labor in place of skilled labor. St Suhr or Framus plek machines are being used but their staffs are skilled builders....things wont slide through.

Having said that I have never come across a Gibson that can't be set straight with a good setup. Even a poorly cut factory nut is an easy fix and most new instruments come with a free setup. While that may suck the fixes that I have done on new Gibsons have been quick and easy. I have come across very few issues that were what I would call bad.

 

[edgarallanpoe]

That is the problem with hiring non skilled labor in place of skilled labor. St Suhr or Framus plek machines are being used but their staffs are skilled builders....things wont slide through.

Bingo! This is why people dislike Gibson. Think about it, do their prices reflect mass production or unskilled labor?

 

[BobL]

I have to agree with Rocky on this. So let's add some more. Poor finish, poor nut, etc.. There will always be Gibson bashers because there will always be people who can't afford them or people who don't play them and feel the need to justify their purchase. For a fact I can count the number of Gibsons I have seen with a blem or poor workmanship over a period of 45 years on ONE HAND. If you feel a need to count all of the abused GC guitars as an issue with Gibsons GC you're well off base. If you want to count poorly made Norlin era Gibsons then you have a point, but let's stop the blanket statements concerning Gibsons quality as being poor. It's just not the case.

You should also know that your friend at Gibson is wrong about the Plek. It's not used on production guitars at all. And as a matter of fact it's not used on all Historics or custom shop guitars either. However, every guitar sent out by Gibson is checked more than once for string hight, intonation, fret buzz and playability, by hand, by more than one person. These settings are the factory settings and if I pick up a Gibson in a store I WON'T LIKE THE ACTION. Because the action of a guitar is subjective to the players needs and what someone else likes may not be what you or I like. These are RECOMMENDED settings. Get over it.