Welp my EQ died. But before I go replacing it.

[Nylisk]

Should I just buy a single EQ pedal or does it make sense to buy some sort of unit with multiple things in it? I mean if I'm already going to be spending at least $100, would it pay to just get somethin with more toys in it?
How much higher of a price tag do you have to do in order to get a good "system" of stuff I guess is my question.

I never really got to mess with any thing like that so I don't know what's good

 

[BobL]

I have never been a fan of outboard EQs for guitar amplifiers and that applies especially to cheap outboard EQs such as those made by Boss. In the pro audio world that I work in an EQ is seldom used for anything more than to make the system flat. In other words, the EQ is used to make the system respond to all frequencies equally, no one frequency louder than the other. After that then channel strip EQs or side chained EQs are used to change the overall response of the particular instrument or voice.

All that being said a guitar is not FOH and when a player say's they need an outboard EQ to find the tone they want, then what they're really saying is;

"Either one of my effects pedals is killing the tone of my rig, or I have the wrong amp speaker combination to begin with."

Outboard EQ's may well help with the problem but the old addage "Nothing for nothing" surely applies.

The first issue will be the enhanced gain in the signal chain. The overall effect of this enhanced gain will always be that every pedal following the EQ will have it's properties change, which is why an EQ should come last. Second, the EQ will certainly add to the noise floor in the form of hiss. and the additional gain will usually result in feedback of the wrong kind.

Try this. Take all of your pedals out and plug right into the amp. Play through every channel at a decent volume and ask yourself if any of the tones come close to what you want. Use the amps tone controls. Can't get close? You have the wrong amp. Getting close? Keep trying. Then start adding effects in this order.

Tuner
WAH
Compressor
Overdrive
Delay
Chorus, etc.

And the myth. Not everything needs true bypass. Many effects units pass tone without loss, some do not, some actually enhance tone even though they are not being used, and the reason for adding effects one at a time is to pinpoint the effect in line causing the most damage to your tone.

The problem with having a signal chain that is fully bypassed is that the length of the cable run to your amp could actually double. The math is simple, just add the length of cable to the affects, bypass them all (no buffer) and add the cable length to the amplifier, and that could add up to 40 -50 feet. So what's wrong with that? The impedence/capacitance changes and so does the tone. Why not just add another capacitor to the tone circuit of your guitar, say .047, that should make it nice and muddy don't you think?

So sorry for the rant but adding is subtracting in guitar world IMO, and adding an EQ is just a crutch for poor tone to begin with. However if you absolutely must add the EQ, then add it to the effects loop and suffer that tone sucking loss, but be sure to add a good one. DBX makes a good line of EQs. I use the 2231s for FOH and sound work because of the added features, however a simple single channel with a gain control will do you well. And please, don't waste money on a Behringer unit.

Good luck, have fun.

http://www.dbxpro.com/131/131.php

http://www.dbxpro.com/2231/2231.php

 

[Nylisk]

... :shock:

 

[Nylisk]

okay BobL, I really appriciate all of that feedback but I'm just a hobby musician. I'm even honest enough to admit that I'm not a very good one (but I'm working on it!) I'm not playing live. I'm not being recorded for an album. I don't consider myself to even be capable of keeping up with a band right now, but I've been studying up on my music theory.

I just bought a mesa boogie single rec combo amp and it sounds amazing. It still sounds amazing without the EQ. All I was using my EQ for was to slightly kill the frequency just to the left of the middle.

My question is, since I'm already probably going to spend $100+, should I just take the bite and get myself an effects proccesor for the loop? (Is that how they work? They go into the loop? I've never used one before) or is a proccesor something you really have to spend $$$ to get something worth having? I'm thinking of stuff like those boss or line6 things (or whoever else makes em)

 

[BobL]

Sorry but I don't use multi effects units at all, but I will say that better tone can be had if you stay out of the effects loop. The tone you want is in the amp. Back off on the mid and it may come to you, but remember that less is more. Play with the amp one channel at a time, get familiar with it, and you'll hear the tome you want soon enough. If you do have to buy effects then buy the best you can. You might start with an Analogman compressor. Compressors are one of those effects that can be used with any style and the results from a good compressor are very gratifying. The compressor does not go in the loop and is almost always the first effect in the chain. Have fun.

 

[Chris McKinley]

BobL,

You're offering some very good advice for someone who wants as much high fidelity of signal as possible, especially in a recording situation, and the admonition to start with maximizing the inherent tone first is gold. However, your advice is frankly a bit off track in some respects for someone interested in tweaking an already acceptable tone for live performance. As an example, a compressor, even one as good as the Analogman unit, isn't going to do anything for sculpting the frequency response of the amp, such as wanting to shave off some of the 200 Hz mud that Recto's put out in spades, or wanting to get a scooped-mid sound out of your same amp live for certain songs without having to tweak and test the mid tone control on the amp or dial down all the mids.

It's also inaccurate to state that one can find exactly the tone they're looking for at any given moment simply by adjusting the limited parameters of the on-board tone stack of the amp, especially given that one may be interested in more than one tone for various uses. Further, it's pragmatically unwieldy to imply that people keep several sets of speaker cabinets around on stage to switch between in order to adjust their tone by using different amp/speaker combinations, or worse yet, several full rigs of amp/speaker cabs to get different sounds.

All of these logicstically improbable situations are avoided by simply putting one lowly little EQ pedal in the loop. Is it going to sound as good as using several unaffected rigs to get various tones? Of course not. But then, it's also a very realistically achievable alternative. One could take a page from your advice and use a nicer, higher dollar EQ if retaining as much original tone as possible is a concern.

While it's sometimes true that using an EQ can be a crutch for a poor unaffected tone, it's untrue to claim that such is always the case. There's nothing in anyone's rule book that says you have to be satisfied with any amp's stock tone, even a Mesa. Further, for guys who can't afford a Mesa or similarly-priced amp, an EQ, even used as a crutch, may be the only way to achieve an acceptable tone for the time being. After all, it would be both elitist and ludicrous to suggest that someone simply not play at all until such time as they can afford a professional quality boutique amplifier and speaker cabinet.

 

[BobL]

Chris,
If you had read the last post the inference was that if the OP is to start buying effects he may well wish to start with a compressor. That being said I also did not imply that there should be a number of rigs on stage in an effort to fullfill a need for a particular tone, although I personally carry a Vibrolux and Lonestar to every gig. However, if you're one of those many people who need as many effects as will fit on the board to obtain any type of tone because of the songs or style you play, then an EQ may be just the ticket. And I still hold the line that all the pedals in the world won't make up for the wrong amp regardless of cost.

 

[AustinK]

if you want to tweak your tone just enough to reach the sweet spot but your tone is already good i would suggest getting a good single eq pedal. I recently got a mxr 10 band and i really like it. I am not really a fan of effects so i don't know about multi pedals.

 

[Chris McKinley]

BobL,

RE: "However, if you're one of those many people who need as many effects as will fit on the board to obtain any type of tone because of the songs or style you play, then an EQ may be just the ticket.". True. And it may also be just the ticket if you are not one of those people who need as many effects as possible to obtain any type of tone, but rather, just one of those people who already like the stock tone obtainable from the amp itself, but would simply like to tweak it a bit here and there. You seem to be under the impression that an EQ can only be used as a radical tone-altering effect as opposed to a subtle tone-shaping device.

RE: "And I still hold the line that all the pedals in the world won't make up for the wrong amp regardless of cost.". I don't think you've seen anyone argue that particular point thus far, so it seems a little unnecessary that you are again bringing it up. 'The right amp', whatever that may be, may simply turn out to be out of reach financially for someone at a given moment in time. Or, just as validly, one may already have the right amp, but still want a little more tonal shaping control than the amp's tone stack allows. Finding a great amp and using its base tone as a starting point is always good advice when possible, but it may not always be an option for everyone at any given moment. Some people may be forced to settle for a starter amp and yet still want a way to optimize the tone they can get for now, then later they may be in a position to afford a nicer amp. Different players can have different circumstances.

 

[BobL]

Chris,
The implication is that I'm saying you have to have an expensive amp in order for it to be the right amp. I don't see in any of my posts where I said that.

If you buy an amp and it's the best you can afford, it could be the right amp. However, in todays world there are many more choices to be had than there where back when I started in this business 45 years ago, and an amp is a personal choice. Note that I didn't state anywhere what amp the OP or anyone else should purchase, and it's silly to think that there aren't other choices to be had regardless of your budget.

Tone is subjective and a reason I will seldom recommend a specific amp model for anyones needs. People need to choose there own rig based on their genre of music, budget and needs at hand. If that means a $100 Epiphone is the right amp and produces the right tone for the music being played so be it. Pedals are also subject to the individuals taste and if some people feel that an EQ is the way to go the also, so be it. I recommend against an outboard EQ for a number of reasons, but that's me and that's what makes the world go round.