Was I expecting too much?

[Adamant]

My Schecter C-1 Hellraiser arrived today and was hoping it would give me what I really wanted from my Mesa, but it didn't ...

I'm running the C-1 straight into a Mesa Single Rect and the cab is a Crate with Celestion Seventy 80's...

I went through the works before choosing this amp but it's not giving me the level of gain I was under the impression that it gave, My old behringer SS put out a more brutal sound.

I was hoping I could find some resolution here, Is it the speakers in the cab? Could it be the Mesa itself, leaving me scammed from ebay?

Any echo of an opinion would be appreciated

 

[jdurso]

My Schecter C-1 Hellraiser arrived today and was hoping it would give me what I really wanted from my Mesa, but it didn't ...

I'm running the C-1 straight into a Mesa Single Rect and the cab is a Crate with Celestion Seventy 80's...

I went through the works before choosing this amp but it's not giving me the level of gain I was under the impression that it gave.

I was hoping I could find some resolution here, Is it the speakers in the cab? Could it be the Mesa itself, leaving me scammed from ebay?

Any echo of an opinion would be appreciated

well before assuming its the recto what do you want out of the amp? if its more low end get a mesa cab with v30s. if its more gain you desire try an OD infront like an OCD or a Maxon OD808. also maybe a better fit for you is a dual recto as i find it has a little bit more gain on tap. another solution would be a fresh retube. if the tubes are on their way out your not going to get as much gain. it could also be you may prefer el34 power tubes to the 6l6s that come stock in that amp. also before jumping to conclusions what are your settings and what other amps are you familiar with?

at the end of the day you may find that you chose the wrong amp... nothing wrong with admitting that. it all depends what you consider the right level of gain.

 

[Adamant]

I guess I was hoping to achieve a level of gain/distortion comparable to 94 Hours by As I Lay Dying. I don't want to sound like some ravenous twit seeking out the most distortion you can dish out but that was my aim ...

My settings are Output & Master are at 12, Presence 12, Bass 11, Mid 11, Treble 2, and Gain 2

I've tried my own experimental settings, suggestions from others, the works but it seems decent at low, low volume but once I want to really push it the distortion flattens out and the tone becomes muddy as hell.

I also changed the stock 6l6 tubes to el34 the day I bought it

I've only played through a Marshall in a shop, my old Behringer, and a Randall

 

[Griz]

Lose the Crate. I be lovin' my Mesa cabs. Just a suggestion.

 

[jdurso]

I guess I was hoping to achieve a level of gain/distortion comparable to 94 Hours by As I Lay Dying. I don't want to sound like some ravenous twit seeking out the most distortion you can dish out but that was my aim ...

My settings are Output & Master are at 12, Presence 12, Bass 11, Mid 11, Treble 2, and Gain 2

I've tried my own experimental settings, suggestions from others, the works but it seems decent at low, low volume but once I want to really push it the distortion flattens out and the tone becomes muddy as hell.

I also changed the stock 6l6 tubes to el34 the day I bought it

I've only played through a Marshall in a shop, my old Behringer, and a Randall

i agree with griz... get a better amp whether that be a mesa, vht, marshall.

i believe at the time of shadows are security, phil was using kranks (might still be) which i find very different from the mesa sound. its not that there's any more gain in that amp, its just voiced different. your going to get a closer sound to the krank by using the 6l6s or even some kt66s. also phil uses mesa cabs and that plays into the tone a whole lot as does your guitar and pickups. also phil may use an OD infront of his kranks so it might be worth checking out what he's got going on rig wise.

i will say with a different cab and a tube swap you should get more of what your looking for. also an OD in front will help get your preamp hotter and an eq in the loop will help you refine the tone of the preamp. i think you can get what your looking for without swapping your amp but changing out your cab and adding a few pedals will make the most difference.

 

[mrd]

Turn the treble down mate, same with the gain.

If your master & output are at 12oclock, that's way too much high-end gain.

Keep in mind, the treble knob is a gain knob, it's just tuned to high frequencies.

With master & output at 12, try treble at 11 to 11:30, and gain around the same.

 

[Adamant]

I'll give those settings a throw when I get home from work. I'll also take up the suggestion of the cab, I'll list this one on ebay and see about getting a 2x12 mesa.

If I put a OD pedal in the set, would I put it out front or in the effects loop for best tone?

 

[richt1760]

If I put a OD pedal in the set, would I put it out front or in the effects loop for best tone?

In front. You want the OD to drive the preamp a little (or a lot) harder.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Please don't take offense, but most pro players use a lot less gain that you (or many newbies) might think.

 

[Adamant]

I take no offense, but I found a video on youtube to have some comparison to what it sounds like ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ffMgfUTSYw

I have it set on modern and put the gain on 3 o'clock for my humor and it only sounds slighty more distorted than the tone in that video, only slightly.

I'm starting to lose hope ...

 

[Turumbar82]

I would look into putting some new tubes in your amp. You could definitely use a better cab but that won't determine your gain level.

I don't get it when I hear people saying that the recto they bought isn't giving them enough gain! It's really is the truth that the heaviest guitar sounds don't have the highest amount of gain. There's a sweet spot that you will find between your master volume and your gain where it will sound like it has plenty of gain and will be plenty heavy.

If it doesn't sound like there is enough gain in your Recto then it sounds like there is something up with the amp or the tubes.

 

[sixtonoize]

There must be something wrong with your amp. A Single Rec should have WAY more gain than that vid. Hell, I an get more gain out of my RectoVerb's CLEAN channel than the guy on that vid.

Try swapping positions of your preamp tubes...this should either make the problem WAY better, or WAY worse. If it does either, then you should replace all of the Pre tubes with new ones.

 

[Adamant]

Alright, I tried switching the preamp tubes ... no change

I find this video to be similar to the tone I'm seeking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKM6h8iuBJg

I replaced the tubes with El34 like 5 months ago as well

I've tried finding the sweet spot with the master volume but when it gets to 11ish it just gets flabby.

The only way I can get it to sound distorted is with the gain and treble at like 3 o'clock but it just sounds fake, like from a cheap pedal

I'm not sure how to go about resolving this issue

 

[Turumbar82]

That's really interesting that you aren't getting the tone you want. How did you switch the preamp tubes? Did you just switch them one at a time or did you get a whole new set of preamp tubes? It would be great if we could hear a recording of your sound to see what's going on.

 

[Adamant]

I put a brand new set of el34 preamp tubes shortly after I got the amp.

I know the cab I have is eh, but the Seventy-80's never really got bad reviews, basically from what I've read they're just average.

Here's some sound clips of what it sounds like ... First one is with the same EQ settings as mentioned earlier, second one is with treble and gain at 3 to achieve a better distortion but sound is too fake.

Oddly enough, the recording sounds better than what's coming through my cab, so perhaps this is just an issue of the speakers themselves but I still desire more gain ...

http://rapidshare.com/files/141113203/One.wav.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/141113388/Two.wav.html

 

[sixtonoize]

EL34s aren't preamp tubes - they're power tubes. You have two of them.
The preamp tubes in your Rec are 12AX7s, and are covered by metal shields. There are five of them.

Your amp sounds fine, and has a ton of gain. I think that the problem is more that you're not used to hearing a tube amp. Tube amp distortion is VERY different than the Solid State distortion that you're used to hearing...it's smoother and more sonically pleasant, which is why people have used tubes for so long. Of course, this means that it doesn't sound as "brutal", but in a live context, it's really easy for a more "brutal" solid state amp to sound "harsh" or "piercing" or just terrible.

 

[Turumbar82]

Yeah, you have changed your power tubes and not your pre amp tubes.

Like sixtonoize said, it sounds fine. It seemed like it lacked alittle bass but that could be the microphone.

If you want a good As I Lay Dying tone try a tubescreamer in front of the amp, keep the gain low on the pedal and the level up high and then I would probably put a graphic eq in the loop of your too. There are a lot of good eq threads on here describing which frequency to bring up and down to give you a certain sound.

It could be that in the end you didn't get the right amp for the sound you want. You might love a Krank but I've heard a bunch of people do As I Lay Dying stuff on youtube with rectifiers and it sounded pretty dead on.

If you want to upgrade yourpreamp tubes go to Doug's Tubes or Eurotubes. I've only dealth with Eurotubes before and I got the high gain kit for my recto when I had it. It sounded awesome I thought.

 

[siggy14]

If you amp sounds like that first youtube link, then there is something wrong, so here are some suggestions.

Change all your preamp tubes, dont just switch them around, they are cheap, roughly ten dollars per tube.

Make sure you loop setting is right, it your send or receive level is to low then it could be part of the problem. This also includes the black output know on the front of the amp, that is part of the loop.

Since you said you put in EL34's I am assuming it is a version 2 rectoverb, as the original versions you could not use EL34's. So with that being said, when you put in the EL34's did you switch the switch on the back to the EL34 position?

Last but not least, check all cables, start out with just having one known good cable plugged directly into the amp, make sure you also have a good cable going from the head to the cab.

 

[Adamant]

I'll look around for an OCD pedal and try putting that in front ...

Guess I was just expecting way too much

 

[mikey383]

One thing to take into consideration is that when you mic up a high gain amp, it sounds like there's more distortion than there actually is. So, the recordings you are listening to are probably using less gain than it sounds like.

Another thing, take a look at your preamp tubes. Maybe changing to a high-gain kit from someone like Doug's Tubes or Eurotubes will help.