Warming up live tones with the Mark V

[Wayno]

Hi all, long time browser and new member here.

Can anyone help with warming up my tones with the mark V?

I use a GT 8 in 4CM with the V which at bedroom volumes i get great sounds with on all channels, however, i'm struggling to get the same amount of warmth when at live volume with my band. 90w seems to add a lot of honk compared to 10w and dropping the mids means i get lost in the mix. I've retubed in the last week with JJ EL34 ii's, will these warm up a bit once they've burnt in? Only had 3 or 4 hours play time so far. I'd rather not have to ditch the GT 8 as we cover a lot of styles from CCR, Steppenwolf etc right up to Nirvana, Metallica, Muse etc and everything in between and i need the versatility without the tap dance.

If needed i'll post up more detailed settings.

Pre amp tubes as follows:

V1 - Tungsol 12AX7
V2 - Sylvania 12AX7
V3 - Sylvania 12AX7
V4 - Stock mesa 12AX7
V5 - Stock mesa 12AX7
V6 - Stock mesa 12AX7
V7 - Sovtek 12AX7 LPS

Thank you for any help.

 

[LesPaul70]

Well, using EL34s seems to me like a step in the right direction in your case. 6L6s tend to sound more clinical/sterile.

And yes, I know you don't want to hear this but - ditch the GT-8.
I have a GT-6 (its predecessor), which has been in its box for 10 years or so. Yes, it is awesomely tweakable and sounds nice & rich at bedroom volumes, but it simply makes quality tube amps sound like plastic crap at band volume. Hence, unsuable for me.

What I use instead is a ridiculously large pedalboard. But I don't normally use more than one or two pedals per song, and adjust them between songs, so it's manageable. If you need to kick in several effects at the same time, you would need to add a switching system.

The GT-6 (or GT-8) is by no means a bad unit. But I just don't think it was designed to be used with loud tube amps - it was more targeted to bedroom players with transistor amps. There are other effects units that perform better with tube amps and do not color the tone as much (Fractal, TC Electronics, and the other usual suspects).
If you get individual stompboxes, you lose a lot of convenience and versatility but (possibly, depending on the stompboxes) can get better sound quality and, which is more important for me, can pick the exact stompboxes I want while with a multiprocessor I'm always limited to the models that they offer and I may or may not like. I remember, for instance, that the phaser models of the GT-6 were downright horrible and sounded nothing like an actual phaser (a Phase 90 or a TC XII)!

 

[Wayno]

Thank you for the quick reply.

Think i secretly knew all along that i would need to ditch the GT 8, shame cuz i do love the possibilities it offers. Could you recommend then a good overdrive, chorus and delay that work well with the Mark V? I already have a cry baby wah which sounds nice in front of it.

Think i might try swapping out the sylvania and tungsol in V1 and V2 as well, any one think that might help as well as ditching the GT 8?

One more thing, i run through a verticle 2 x 12 which the seller told me had V30's in it, could a speaker change help?

Thanks again,

Wayne.

 

[OldTelecasterMan]

About the Vert 2x12. Speakers that have some time on them I think sound better. I have two vert 2x12 mesa cabs and I think they sound warmer now than when they were new.

Just my opinion.

 

[scoot_001]

Must admit that I'm with LesPaul70 on this one. I too used a GT-8 and no matter what I did I could never get past the difference in sound between having it plugged in verses playing straight into the amp. I have played without any effects for years now and love the convenience of it but - over the last 12 months I started building a pedalboard with a switcher. It's not cheap, but nice pedals and a smart switcher and I have versatile effects and good sound.

I ditched the Gt-8 but for a while, I would get it out every now and then, plug it in, unplug it, and continue - sorta like eating Mcdonalds every 6 months or so - you just gotta remind yourself that it's no good for you ;-)

Try playing straight into the amp and see if at band levels, the issue goes away (even if you are missing some of the key ingredients to a specific song) you'l have a better idea if this is your issue.

Let us know how you go.

 

[Wayno]

Thanks guys,

Had a little jam at home last night straight into the V and got some nice tones at fairly high levels ( enough to piss the neighbours off anyway :twisted: ) gonna see how it sits with the rest of the band soon as i get the chance. Im gonna sell the GT 8 and have a look for a decent second hand chorus, delay and OD, finances permitting. Probably inprove my playing anyway not being able to rely on effects. Seems like ive wasted hours tweaking instead of just playing and enjoying!

The vert 2 x 12 is second hand, bought with the Mark V ( seller claimed they are v30's however, i've not had it apart to confirm ) and is quite battered so i would assume the speakers are worn in, i might try swapping the top speaker out with the C90 from the combo ( i dont use the combo speaker when cranked with the band, prefer the tighter closed back cab ) any of you guys tried a combo like that before in a 2 x 12?

Again, thanks for your advice,

wayno.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The speaker from the combo is 8Ω and the ones it the 2x12 sould be 16Ω each. If you swap the 8Ω MC-90 into the 2x12 you'll end up with a 5.3Ω cab.

 

[Wayno]

Ar$e hair, hadn't thought of that. Would that not be a safe mismatch if i used the 4ohm output though? Or would i run into other issues with that setup? Cannot really afford to splash out on more gear if i dont need to, not if i wanna stay married anyway!

 

[screamingdaisy]

It'll be a safe mismatch on 4Ω, but 66.6w will feed through through the 16Ω speaker and 33.3w through the 8Ω speaker.

(based on a 100w amp... Didn't feel like doing the math for 90w, but I'm sure you get the point.)

No reason you can't experiment anyway, but the results may or may not be ideal.

 

[Wayno]

Figured something like that would be the case, scratch that idea then. Will stick to the cab and speakers i have for now and see how i get on. Thank you all for all your advice.

I did discover a nice setting for channel 3 the other day when i was annoying the neighbour's that seemed to suit both the LP and the Schecter on 45w and allowed a nice choice in thickness just by switching between iV and iiC+ modes. Hopefully it'll stay that nice when im turned up to full band volume. Have just found another thread where it's been suggested to run the channel master lower and turn up the master volume to open up the power amp a bit more.

Gotta admit, now that i've ditched the GT 8 and im not wasting my time flogging a dead horse as it where, im really enjoying my playing much more, instead of spending so much time twisting knobs.

Thanks for the nudge in the right direction!

 

[Wayno]

First gig since going back to basics last night and the difference was amazing. I had so much control over my tone just from the guitar volume and tone controls, something which just never seemed to work well with my previous setup. The Mark V sounded so much warmer and fuller and i had compliments on my tone throughout the night.

Thank you guys for telling me what i needed to hear.

If anyone stumbles on this thread with the same issue i had just have a read through and think to yourself, do i really REALLY need all those effects etc. The single most effective improvement you can make to your sound is to simplify and just let the amp do what it does best!