Warm up time for a Mark amp?

[Markedman]

It seems to me the tubes heat up fast, fast enough to not make a huge difference in sound when switching them after 30 minutes of being turned on. My Mark amps always need a good half hour before they sound really good so I'm thinking it's the transformers and caps that need to warm up more so than the tubes. When I try different tubes, I don't have to wait a half hour to hear the difference, it take seconds for 12ax7's to get up to speed when I'm rolling tubes, power tubes maybe about 5 minutes, ?, if the amp has been on for a while. I know my fingers need a half hour of exercise to work good. Is it the amp's guts that need to warm up or my ears?

 

[screamingdaisy]

I've noticed the same with both my Mark III and V.

I've always assumed it's why Mark chassis are always tubes down regardless of whether it's a combo or head.

 

[stokes]

When tubes warm up in standby,only the filaments are warming the tube elements just enough to operate,or function.When you take the amp off standby into play mode the high voltage is applied and gets the plates cooking,when you begin to play or add signal to the mix,currents rise and fall creating more heat and really get the tubes cooking.So the heat is applied in stages untill the tubes get to that "sweet spot".

 

[stokes]

I've noticed the same with both my Mark III and V.

I've always assumed it's why Mark chassis are always tubes down regardless of whether it's a combo or head.

The chassis are in the same position in both the head and combo's for ease of production.A head cab is the same as a combo cab,just not as tall.Its all about maximizing profit.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I've noticed the same with both my Mark III and V.

I've always assumed it's why Mark chassis are always tubes down regardless of whether it's a combo or head.

The chassis are in the same position in both the head and combo's for ease of production.A head cab is the same as a combo cab,just not as tall.Its all about maximizing profit.

I'd buy that argument if Mesa made all their amps that way and weren't spending extra money to install fans and heatsinks.

 

[stokes]

They use heat sinks and fans because having the tubes upside down is more prone to causing heat issues.When the tubes are upside down the heat is kept in and absorbed by the chassis being above the tubes.If the tubes are above the chassis the heat dissipates better,it isnt absorbed by the chassis and components it will just rise and dissipate.If you compare the head and combo cabs,they are exactly the same except the combo is taller.No need to re-tool for a different cab,saves a lot of cost.

 

[bgh]

I do know that my Mark IV sounds better after it is used for a while. Sitting in "standby" doesn't seem to assist one way or the other (as others have said).

I know it's not in the Mark lineage, but my Nomad does not need that sort of "warmup" time.

Now, if I could only get them both to make me sound better after an hour or so!

 

[screamingdaisy]

They use heat sinks and fans because having the tubes upside down is more prone to causing heat issues.When the tubes are upside down the heat is kept in and absorbed by the chassis being above the tubes.If the tubes are above the chassis the heat dissipates better,it isnt absorbed by the chassis and components it will just rise and dissipate.If you compare the head and combo cabs,they are exactly the same except the combo is taller.No need to re-tool for a different cab,saves a lot of cost.

I'd buy that argument if Mesa made all their amps that way and weren't spending extra money to install fans and heatsinks....

 

[stokes]

They use heat sinks and fans because having the tubes upside down is more prone to causing heat issues.When the tubes are upside down the heat is kept in and absorbed by the chassis being above the tubes.If the tubes are above the chassis the heat dissipates better,it isnt absorbed by the chassis and components it will just rise and dissipate.If you compare the head and combo cabs,they are exactly the same except the combo is taller.No need to re-tool for a different cab,saves a lot of cost.

I'd buy that argument if Mesa made all their amps that way and weren't spending extra money to install fans and heatsinks....

Not offering an "argument" or anything for you to "buy".Dont understand what your "argument" is.

 

[screamingdaisy]

They use heat sinks and fans because having the tubes upside down is more prone to causing heat issues.When the tubes are upside down the heat is kept in and absorbed by the chassis being above the tubes.If the tubes are above the chassis the heat dissipates better,it isnt absorbed by the chassis and components it will just rise and dissipate.If you compare the head and combo cabs,they are exactly the same except the combo is taller.No need to re-tool for a different cab,saves a lot of cost.

I'd buy that argument if Mesa made all their amps that way and weren't spending extra money to install fans and heatsinks....

Not offering an "argument" or anything for you to "buy".Dont understand what your "argument" is.

I argued in a round about fashion that I believe Mesa leaves the Mark chassis tubes down because they sound better hot.

You argued that Mesa leaves the Mark's chassis tubes down because it's cheaper.

I pointed out that it costs Mesa extra money to install fans and heatsinks.

You countered by stating that heat rises.

I pointed out that it costs Mesa extra money to install fans and heatsinks.

You countered by stating that you're not offering an argument.

Not sure where you want to go from here... I still believe Mesa leaves the Mark chassis tubes down because they sound better hot.

No idea if I'm right or not, but it is funny that every Mark and Mark derivative amp head is tubes down while non-Mark heads are tubes up...

 

[stokes]

When Mesa first started they built one amp,a MkI.No head version,just a combo.A combo usually has the chassis hanging from the top.Had nothing to do with the tube sounding better when hot,tho they do,as I explained in my first reply,and why they do.So now when they started building head versions they stuck with the same cab design,didnt go with the Marshall arrangement with the chassis facing the other way,which Marshall did because the EL34's operate much hotter.The cost of adding a .79 cent fan and a 25 cent heat sink is insignificant compared to the cost of designing and building a different cab.The fan and heat sink does offset the damage of heating the entire chassis does to the components and,most of all,killing those crap tubes they use.

 

[screamingdaisy]

never mind... This is getting boring...

 

[ryjan]

never mind... This is getting boring...

It's a thread about the warm up time for a guitar amp. It was already boring from the first post.

 

[paul461]

just love this thread..tubes

 

[stokes]

If it bores you,go on to the next thread.

 

[BlackBoxy]

to play , 2mns of heaters on tube are enough to safely use the tubes !

but, to make it singing, a warmed caps and power supply (current stabilized) is better, so 20- 30mns of warm up is required

 

[megavoice]

Yes, 2 or 3 mins in the Standby mode are enough but 2 or 3 hours or more in "Power On" mode for an extraordinary sound...........
It had been mentioned here for several times..........

 

[MkIII Renegade]

I give my tube amps 2-3 minutes on standby before playing at mild volume. My MkIV in particular seems gutted unless it's been played for 15+ minutes. I never noticed before having the MkIV that the MkIII also improves after warming up, but it doesn't take as long to reach nirvana.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Mesa says 30 second warmup, but what would they know, they only designed the durn things.
As for hanging upside down, etc., the first Boogies were modded Princetons, which, surprise!!! have hanging tubes. It wasn't broke, and they didn't fix it. Once they got into the "real" amp head business, like Peavey, Soldano and everyone else, they copied Marshall.
Oh, dear, I'm boring myself...
I once played a lot of one-nighters, where the trusty ol' Mark III sat in its road case in the cold, cold garage, then back of the cold, cold truck en route.
(And this is SoCal. I can't imagine Minnesota. Yikes!)
Once flipped on, it seemed to take a good hour or so to warm up and not sound brittle. It got to where I'd just leave it "on" for the entire gig after warm-up, because I thought it sounded better. Works for me, YMMV.

 

[BlackBoxy]

Mesa copying Marshall?
i found both schematics structures rather differents
Tube guitar amps builder doesn't need to copy anyone , as the technology is simple !

this guy build great amps , and trying to get Marshally tones , without copying

http://www.fxamps.com/

a tube amp power supply need 20mns at least to be fully stabilized (current and heat) waiting 4 days or 100 mores will not add any heat or stibilized current!